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Honestly, how is the spread 9.5?


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As a fan of neither team, this spread is about right.

The Pats SHOULD blow the Ravens out of the water. Stop Rice, avoid turnovers, and stop the deep ball, and the Ravens are done.

The spread is big enough to get some people to bet on the Ravens, which is what Vegas wants.
 
Looks like it's working: down to 8.5.
 
That is why it isn't discussion worthy, because it just isn't correct to say that bookmakers guess who will win and effectively place bets by forcing the money the other way. Just doesn't happen, and any degree of logic will tell you that when they can guarantee a 10% with no risk, they aren't going to plss that away by gambling.
Vegas TAKES bets, they don't MAKE bets.

Well, for what it's worth, I've spoken to many operators of online sportsbooks, and heard more than once that they do at times take positions on games where they don't have an even 50/50 split.

Really wasn't the point here--it was more of interest why the spread was what it was. But that conversational ship has long sailed.
 
Oh really? Then why do Sportsbooks spend millions of dollars on professional handicappers and pay tons of money for inside information that the public doesn't know about anyway? If the public is unaware of this inside info, then Vegas shouldn't really care about it either, right?
They have employees who set the lines so that they aren't out of whack to begin with. Spending millions for inside information is a fiment of your imagination.

And why bother with computer simulations and spending money on extremely advanced technology and algorithms to come up with a spread? Why not just pay someone 40k a year who researches historical trends, polls bettors, and can figure out exactly where to set the spread for equal betting? Because there is rarely equal betting, so why not just do that?
Again, the fact that they strive to do it correctly is not proof that they are silly enough to take a sure thing and turn it into a gamble.



The reason they don't do this is because sharp bettors would kill them with $5M bets and take all their money. Vegas foremost protects themselves by setting the correct line so it's a 50/50 proposition on who will actually cover... the adjustments are made to hedge bets and risks.
No. That is gambling. They are in the business of collecting as close to all of the 10% vig on the bets that they can.
Again, the fact that they work hard to get the initial line right doesn't mean they run their business based on guessing who will win, when they can simply collect 10% with no risk.

You act like they would give a team 5-6 points because they think that's where the betting will come in. That's crazy! As I said before, maybe 1-2 points. If the spread was giving a team a touchdown that was not calculated into the real probability equation, the books would go bankrupt.
This makes absolutely no sense. There is no probability equation in a sporting event. Once again, they don't try to predict a winner, that would be effetively making the house a gambler. They strive to get equal money on both sides.
Example. If they get 10,000,000 on Baltimore and 12,000,000 on the Patriots (yes I know it is simpistic but for brevity its the same effect) they are at risk of $2,000,000 but the collect $2,200,000 in vig. They want to drive the next 2,000,0000 to Bmore, so they are walking away with 2,400,000 no matter who wins, not to NE so they also have 4,000,000 (the difference) bet on the outcome.

Vegas likes to be somewhat balanced by sometimes adjusting the lines a few points to compensate for unbalanced bets, but in general, they begin with the number that accurately represents the most likely outcome of the game. You obviously don't know how it works.
Common sense defeats your argument.
 
Vegas is begging people to bet on the Ravens. It's usually better to run the other way when that's the case. Because they think there's a chance NE blows them out.
Bingo

Vegas typically knows exactly what theyre doing. Its the exact same spread as the Broncos game.
 
I don't understand why everyone is saying the Ravens got lucky to beat the Broncos (who apparently didn't show up.) TWO special teams touchdowns in one game for the Broncos. Even if Denver completely stunk up the field for the rest of the game, that's a lot to overcome. I understand we all love our Patriots, but let's give credit where it's due. Even had the Ravens lost last week by not completing the miracle pass, it was still a tremendous effort in a really tough stadium. Perhaps you don't recall, but everyone said the Ravens age would be a factor playing in the altitude... well, the Broncos scored just 21 points on offense in 77 minutes and couldn't move the ball in the game's final 20+ minutes.

Manning isnt the same guy.

Ive been watching him as the weeks wore on and could see his arm wasnt the same. The zip in his passes aint there no more. For as bad as Manning (INT and Fumble) and the Broncos played they still had a shot to win the game. Furthermore, the Broncos defense was a bunch of frauds who feasted on terrible offense like KC, SD, OAK, CLEV,TB. Champ Bailey was brutalized all day.

Also, Indianapolis was a good opponent that won 11 games. I realize they're overrated, but let's not act like they were chopped liver.

Indy hung with Baltimore till the end of the 3rd quarter down by 1 score with a rookie QB, a run game and basically Reggie Wayne. Flacco completed 12 passes.
 
Line is down to 8½ most places, and down to 8 in a few spots.

Meanwhile the over/under has crept up from 50½ to 51½, and as high as 52 in at least one place.

VegasInsider.com | NFL odds
 
Looks like it's working: down to 8.5.

The one that I use, sportsbook.com, which is also probably the biggest or at least one of the top couple/few online sportsbooks in the world, has it down to an even 8 now.

NEP-8

Edit: Sorry, jmt57. I did not see your above previous post, my bad.
 
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these numbers are adjusting based on bets coming in...that's it...there's no "sometimes they do this to screw the Pats" paranoid delusions....you want the line to be 3 points, take your ten or twenty million lying around and throw it down on the Ravens
 
you guys see the 60 min episode with the worlds biggest bookie? He can move a line .5 all by himself if he wanted to. lives in cali i think? Billionaire i want to say
 
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you guys see the 60 min episode with the worlds biggest bookie? He can move a line .5 all by himself if he wanted to. lives in cali i think? Billionaire i want to say

I am familiar with who you are talking about, although for some reason I remembered him being more of a sportsbettor than a bookie, but I only saw the episode once and that was a few years ago.

One of the general reasons why he was able to move the line a bit by himself was due to the unpopular choices of some of his targets. For example, he would choose an NCAA basketball or NCAA football game with very limited interest (and there are plenty out there), where his cash alone would factor into the equation.

Even though stories like his are one in a million, I still have respect for him and his method, which was very smart.
 
I am familiar with who you are talking about, although for some reason I remembered him being more of a sportsbettor than a bookie, but I only saw the episode once and that was a few years ago.

One of the general reasons why he was able to move the line a bit by himself was due to the unpopular choices of some of his targets. For example, he would choose an NCAA basketball or NCAA football game with very limited interest (and there are plenty out there), where his cash alone would factor into the equation.

Even though stories like his are one in a million, I still have respect for him and his method, which was very smart.


yeah i meant to say better and pretty sure in it they said he could move MLB and NHL lines becasue he would bet 20 mill on 1 game or more than that. it was something crazy
 
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The Patriots are 17-3 straight up when favored by 8 or more in their last 20 games.

Let's keep that line at 8 or more :rocker:
 
The Patriots are 17-3 straight up when favored by 8 or more in their last 20 games.

Let's keep that line at 8 or more :rocker:

And 42-5 in TB's era :cool:
 
The Patriots have covered in just two of their last 10 playoff games
 
And they won't cover this one, either.
 
Oh really? Then why do Sportsbooks spend millions of dollars on professional handicappers and pay tons of money for inside information that the public doesn't know about anyway? If the public is unaware of this inside info, then Vegas shouldn't really care about it either, right?

And why bother with computer simulations and spending money on extremely advanced technology and algorithms to come up with a spread? Why not just pay someone 40k a year who researches historical trends, polls bettors, and can figure out exactly where to set the spread for equal betting? Because there is rarely equal betting, so why not just do that?

The reason they don't do this is because sharp bettors would kill them with $5M bets and take all their money. Vegas foremost protects themselves by setting the correct line so it's a 50/50 proposition on who will actually cover... the adjustments are made to hedge bets and risks.

You act like they would give a team 5-6 points because they think that's where the betting will come in. That's crazy! As I said before, maybe 1-2 points. If the spread was giving a team a touchdown that was not calculated into the real probability equation, the books would go bankrupt.

Vegas likes to be somewhat balanced by sometimes adjusting the lines a few points to compensate for unbalanced bets, but in general, they begin with the number that accurately represents the most likely outcome of the game. You obviously don't know how it works.

Correct. And as my previous post pointed out, games handicapped at 7 points or more over a very large sample came in at nearly 50/50. Removing the ties, when you can handicap a season full of games (7 point or more) and the underdog wins half the time and the favorite wins the other half of the time........wow. That can't be a lucky guess on their part, that is people at work behind the scenes who must know what they are doing in regards to winning-losing-final score.....
 
I'll take it, happily.

EXACTLY! By 1 point or by 50, just win! I could, ultimately, care less if the Ravens score 4 TDs on offense and the Patriots score 4 lucky ST TDs and one offensive FG, just win! I know everyone would like to see a dominating Patriot performance (so would I) but, again, this is the point in the season where you just need to win -- anyway, anyhow (see the final play of the AFCCG 2011 for example).

For Vegas, they are proposing the likeliest outcome with their opening spread. However, "likeliest" could mean it has a 17% probability where other outcomes (including those with the Patriots losing) could be 14% and 12% and 10% and 5%. It's all an 'educated guess' but don't mean a thing when TFB needs to put the ball right on target on a critical third down or WW needs to make that catch that may not be right in his hands. Just friggin win....then just friggin figure out a way to beat the Falcons or 9ers......I don't care if it is by a safety because their QB trips over his own shoelace. That is MORE than good enough :D
 
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