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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Oswlek, Jan 4, 2007.

  1. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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  2. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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  3. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great fisking of Borges & Felgie. Freakin' hilarious!
    And now I realize where many of the half-assed topics posted here come from.
    Pats fans, you gots to STOP listening to these guys on the radio!
  4. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    When Felger's started his ESPN gig I liked it enough to listen for at least an hour every day. I haven't listened to it for at a year or more, though.
  5. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh, and please don't use Boobs in a subject heading again. I was all excited clicking on it.
  6. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    I figured the word "flatulent" directly preceeding would eliminate the natural arousal. :p
  7. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again....just another fantastic example of how hateful,spiteful and full of envious animosity these two cretins are. I ran into Borges a couple of years ago in a restaurant off Boyleston St. He's got this rep as a former master of the pugilistic arts...in other words, he fancies himself a tough guy. I don't know what the matter was with him that night but I deliberately elbowed him at the bar and then turned and said "hey, I know who you are...you're that scumbag Globe reporter that's always lying about the Patriots"...he backed down like a scared little girl, paid his tab and left. The best thing was the bartender later on told me he was a skinflint....left change on a 50 dollar bar tab.

    I just wish he would have swung on me.
  8. Return of the Nizz

    Return of the Nizz Rookie

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    Funny of course, but some of the mathematical conclusions of the hypothesis are a little shaky, ie the percentage of unsuccesful attempts. Obviously every time you go on fourth down you plan on making it.

    Also, the raw numbers aren't very meaningful without context. What were the situations/field positions of 2005 compared to 2006. Not trying to rain on the Borges/Felger bashing because they're complete tools, but the premise of the article is so-so.
  9. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    Yeah, Felger was on this afternoon actually responding to this article directly and trying to justify himself. It was friggin lame.... Basically, he was backpedaling and excuse making.
  10. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    I agree that the line "the Patriots actually accepted a higher percentage of failed 4th downs with Adam Vinatieri than they did with Stephen Gostkowski" is a little misleading, but the premise is sound IMHO. I would be willing to be that every single one of the 4th down attempts fell within 3 categories

    1) late game, losing, no other choice.
    2) Too far to go for a FG and too close to punt
    3) 4th and 1 or 2 from the opposing side (or maybe from the NE 40 on)

    I will admit that it seemed that NE tried for a few first downs from the 20-30 that they may have tried with Adam, but I don't think it is a significant amount.
  11. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    there was an espn article some time back this yr by len P how teams go for 4th down conversions and these days and how pats under belichick have been at top of list of teams which do it...that article attributed to more how coaches think about %'s of success vs punting and FG.
    in fact a few yrs (someone can correct me with this) there was an article onBB that he always listens to ideas. one of the examples was that some college professor or someone did a research that going for it on 4th down had a higher success rate than failing or something like that. All teams and nfl coaches scoffed at those ideas and laughed it off but only BB and buddy ernie adams called up this guy to check out his theory and how came up with this.
    Wish i found the original article somewhere

    Edit:Sorry mixed up the ernie adams story with another.He actually researched on the 2pt conversion thing. But the article on going for it(for anyone still interested) on 4th down analysis is here
    http://allthingsbillbelichick.com/articles/2004/incrementalanalysis.htm
    thanks to allthingsbb site.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2007
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    PWP isn't the most natural when it comes to such things...:eek:
  13. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    Any discussion of whether Gost was kept "out of harms way" by going for it on fourth down is really just exhausting hot air if you don't consider the following factors.

    field position
    remaining clock time-game situation


    obviously if you are down by 4 in the waning minutes of the 4th; kicking a Figgie is pointless. You NEED the 1st down. So the decision bears no relevance to trust or lack thereof in Gost.

    If you are beyond the opponents 35 and in normal game time situation; yes it could be an indictment of trust in the kicker. But if between the 50 and 35 you are looking at a 53-63 yard FG. And certainly any decisions to go on 4th down on your own side of the 50 don't have any relevance to trust in your FG kicker (maybe talks to trust in your punter????).

    So although I concur that these 2 are idiots; I don't necessarily disagree that BB didn't coddle Gost somewhat until you can break out the 4th down stats into FG range categories and throwout the end of game type situations that were obviously irrelevant.
  14. PatsRI

    PatsRI PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's simple, Borges and Felger think that because they watch football then write about it that they know football. That fans don't stand in the locker room and talk to players means they are "cuckoo". While we are "fanatics", to assume that these guys are as "objective" becasue they are reporters is flawed. In fact, that they have relationships with players and coaches, and Borges and Felger seem to have negative relationships with most (just by listening the audio of interviews) makes them more biased then some fans.
  15. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So how do you explain:

    Felger: …I mean, the Patriots had more fourth down attempts… Did you know this? … They went on fourth down more than any other team in the league.
    ------

    The premise of the article is pretty clear.
  16. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually the premise is quite obvious and dead-on but as you say perhaps the facts could be a bit more supportive given context. But then again, they clearly give more 'facts' than Boston's version of Abbott & Costello's 'Who's on First?' turned into 'Why Belichick Sux, Redux.'
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is all about the ratings and as long as they keep this stuff up along with the stuff about Deion Branch, they believe it will help the ratings. Not sure how these two ass clowns hooked up, but they are made for each other.. has beens who get too much attention.
  18. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Rookie

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    I thought maybe it was a post about that Jets fan -- Brenda? -- who keeps lurking around here this week.
  19. Willie55

    Willie55 Rookie

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    Until a team figures out that on 4th and 1 or so Brady is going to do a QB sneak they will keep going for it on 4th down. I cant remember a team stopping Brady. I wonder what the success rate is for this play.

    NOTE: every time the Pats do it, I cringe.
  20. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    She's actually nice in person

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