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For Older Pats Fans, I've NEVER Felt this Low


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The reason no one is saying anything, IMO, is because no one knows what he has. How can you respond when you don't even know what he says he has? They've already denied taping the walkthrough....should they issue a re-denial?

As for Specter and all that, for now it is a league thing because Goodell's handling of everything is what's being attacked (for now).

No one ever did themselves any favors by jumping the gun and talking when they don't even know what they are supposed to be talking about. Taping practices? Walkthroughs? Signals? Who knows anymore. GIven the level of stuff that goes on in the NFL, how does it help to scream, "OK, OK, I'll talk! I'll talk!" and dump a huge can of worms on the floor before anything tangible has even come to light?

Unfortunately, all a fan can do is wait.:(
 
I went through this already once with UConn basketball in 2006. A couple kids on the team stole laptops. One kid was suspended for the year, and the other for a semester. All year long the opposition cried foul, and so did the media, when there was nothing foul about the punishments.

But you couldn't explain it to people who, one, were haters, and two, wanted to take UConn down a peg since they were clearly favored to win the national championship. When UConn lost in a huge upset in the final rounds, people were crowing everywhere. That experience actually prepared me well for this one. I just don't get upset about what the haters have to say anymore. I'm perfectly fine with everything about the Patriots except their Super Bowl performance--though if Walsh has a tape of the walkthrough I will then be very, very disappointed.


EXACTLY, UCONN get pegged because they are the best, as are the Patriots. So what if he has a tape of the walkthrough?? as someone pointed out earlier, dont you find it interesting that in 01, only a few months after the 9/11 attacks that security would have just magically missed some unauthorized punk with a camera, taping the stadium and the team?? SB security was at an all time high...that just doesnt make sense to me. If he does how can he prove that that helped them win the game...oh right IT CANT. Matt Walsh is a sack of **** d!ckwad who wants to get paid. Isnt it AMAZING that this whole story broke the DAY BEFORE THE SUPERBOWL.Apparently ppl knew about this buttclown before and he there was some serious questions around him...even from such supreme dbags as Greg Easterbrook. Just wait and see what happens on this one. Dont worry so much.
 
Secondly, who cares what other people think? I cant help at laugh at all of this ridiculous nonsense. Im from suburban Boston but I go to school in Philadelphia and I since I have pats stuff all over my car and I wear Pats stuff all the time, I get booed everyday of my life! I think its hilarious! I laugh in peoples faces everytime someone says something. I throw it back at them and embarrass them for even saying anything in the first place...then I laugh some more. Im shocked but humored by the unbelievable ignorance of ppl. BUT ITS NOTHING NEW! People believe what they WANT to believe, not what is necessarily the truth. Face it, the media is spinning this story because its getting a lot of ppl to buy or read their stuff. PERIOD. Remember the whole Jessica Simpson/ Romo fiasco? Turns out she was at 3 or so games PRIOR to the one where she was videotaped and the cowboys lost. but most people havent heard about that? But the magazines arent gonna sell stories telling the truth so they leave out ALL of the story or they turn assumptions into facts. Fans STILL believe that Jessica Simpson caused the cowboys to lose because they refuse to acknowledge the truth and believe what they want to believe. LET IT GO. keep strong for the Pats.
 
Secondly, who cares what other people think? I cant help at laugh at all of this ridiculous nonsense. Im from suburban Boston but I go to school in Philadelphia and I since I have pats stuff all over my car and I wear Pats stuff all the time, I get booed everyday of my life! I think its hilarious! I laugh in peoples faces everytime someone says something. I throw it back at them and embarrass them for even saying anything in the first place...then I laugh some more. Im shocked but humored by the unbelievable ignorance of ppl. BUT ITS NOTHING NEW! People believe what they WANT to believe, not what is necessarily the truth. Face it, the media is spinning this story because its getting a lot of ppl to buy or read their stuff. PERIOD. Remember the whole Jessica Simpson/ Romo fiasco? Turns out she was at 3 or so games PRIOR to the one where she was videotaped and the cowboys lost. but most people havent heard about that? But the magazines arent gonna sell stories telling the truth so they leave out ALL of the story or they turn assumptions into facts. Fans STILL believe that Jessica Simpson caused the cowboys to lose because they refuse to acknowledge the truth and believe what they want to believe. LET IT GO. keep strong for the Pats.


You are right. I guess as a mother, when I try to teach my kids to play fair, and to do the right thing, this BS really hits home for me, it hi-lights the fact that sometimes it doesn't matter what the TRUTH is, if lies and misconceptions make more money. It's tough, and of course, the fact that when I wear my Pats apparell, which I do and will continue to do, and I am with 2 very small children, fans of opposing teams don't even have the respect to not say anything knowing my kids hear them.

I wonder if BB and Kraft fully understand how hurt some Pats fans are. (I say some because I understand some fans couldnt give a crap and are able to ignore it)

As a fan, and as a mother of kids who love football and the Pats, I just want this fiasco to be "fair" , I want it to be "just," I want it to be "truthful," but I have a feeling thats gone out the window.
 
You are right. I guess as a mother, when I try to teach my kids to play fair, and to do the right thing, this BS really hits home for me, it hi-lights the fact that sometimes it doesn't matter what the TRUTH is, if lies and misconceptions make more money. It's tough, and of course, the fact that when I wear my Pats apparell, which I do and will continue to do, and I am with 2 very small children, fans of opposing teams don't even have the respect to not say anything knowing my kids hear them.

I wonder if BB and Kraft fully understand how hurt some Pats fans are. (I say some because I understand some fans couldnt give a crap and are able to ignore it)

As a fan, and as a mother of kids who love football and the Pats, I just want this fiasco to be "fair" , I want it to be "just," I want it to be "truthful," but I have a feeling thats gone out the window.

If you explain it all to your kids, they will be all the better for it.

Maybe it will make them more cynical, but as Lily Tomlin once said, "You can't be cynical enough."
 
Take a step back.

Take a deep breath...

Stop following the story or the offseason if you have to...

and realize there is a high burden of proof, if you are keeping centered on the rights of the league and the Pats.

That's for proof in your heart that your guys are okay: and that's all that matters.

Fork other fans, and fork the media. I could give a shlitz at this point. They've shown themselves to be subjective and hostile. And clearly, Specter is subjective and hostile.

So you are left with yourself, as a Pats fan, to answer to. Walk away and come back if you need to...

But don't let this bullcrap grind you down. Back in the old days we could stand around and talk of "what if we beat the Raiders" or "Could you imagine, if we beat the Oilers, then went on to..." and other fans would laugh. Like, how cute. The Patsies would like to go beyond a first round playoff game. Then 85? That thudding back to earth? I knew we were the kind of fans that could watch our guys, be loyal to our guys, but were a fluke. We would be standing aside to watch the big boys play at the end of every year...

Then everything going to hell Post=Parcells, when it became apparent that he was going to bring an AFC championship to New England, and that was it?

I was almost out of hope and rebounding, when they came up with this "Cleveland retread," and moved heaven and earth to get him. I was thinking WTF? Of course, that was Belichick, and it was the best thing that ever happened to this team.

So like I said, walk away from the coverage if you need to, or take a breather.

Machiavelli said "It is better to be feared than loved."

Overall, especially in the context in which he said it, I think that little aphorism leaves a lot to be desired.

But, in this context, I think it applies quite nicely.

Everybody loved the inoffensive, ineffective "Patsies" of years gone by. We were just another team that couldn't even get to a big game.

Now we're Goliath, and this stuff comes with the territory.

Once you get to a certain level, you're the only one that you can listen to, as to the value of the team's accomplishments. You have to judge what you think of the crap they're slinging around.

So be a fair jury:

- take into account the motivations of your accuser
- take into account selective enforcement
- take into account what you believe about the seriousness of the charge
- keep your eye on the actual facts, not words put in one party's mouth by another

Come to your own conclusion. Your own team deserves the standard of guilt or innocence of any other team - no more, no less.

To me, hanging with the coverage is part of my Pats obsession. It doesn't make me feel "low" or "depressed," though it is a little draining.

It's gonna be a long offseason in this regard, be ready for it. If that means walking away, walk away.

This team will play in September, however... after all, they really dislike an odd number of teams in the NFL. I think it's pretty clearly demonstrated last season that nobody in the Pats' organization got a free pass to destroy the league, based on use of cameras. They did it by being smarter and better than everyone else... except, of course, one very hot team at one very wrong time.

Me? I don't give a damn if they make us retroactively forfeit all 3 super bowls we won, and make new trophies and new rings for the Eagles, Panthers, and Rams. I saw those seasons and those games, and I know what happened.

Caveat: I don't think it'll come to that. I think the cycle will go back around, as the "startling revelations" are examined one by one, like this "Walsh has tapes" line his attorney is taking.

I think eventually someone asks the question: "Did other owners destroy any tapes when the Pats destroyed theirs?"

Bear in mind the NFL is one big corporate entity. Far more cohesive than the "coaches fraternity" is the owners' corporation. Nobody wants to damage their own franchise, and the league would rather have "one dirty franchise" than "cheating that went on league-wide."

But if it comes down to the Lombardi carrying asterisks for 3 years? I dunno. I might call around to other owners and have them chat with their head coaches.

Eh, a long rambling post for a Saturday morning.

My only point is don't feel low. feel proud.... feel proud that your team is a big enough fish to attract this crap. Don't believe for a second that your team is guilty until proven innocent. And don't bother "defending" against other fans too much... that's what'll make ya feel low.

There's no need for it. Measure your team against the known behavior of other teams, such as what Jimmy Johnson has said he did as a coach, and what we know Miami and the Jets have done... and consider normal.

You're the one that's caught, you pay the ticket. I was fine with that part. It's against the rules, that makes it cheating. I was fine with that part.

But this bullcrap about a "cover-up" when the league does its own policing? What you're basically doing is subjecting the Pats to double-jeopardy, via the league. No other team, mind you, and on no other charges. Just one really good team, the only one to win multiple super bowls this century.

I hope Specter gets laughed out of the Senate.

PFnV
 
Completely agree with the OP. This is as bad as it can possibly be. Yes, that means losing the Super Bowl is worse than going 1-15. The way they played in the last game, a game that was for absolutely everything, makes it even worse than I could have imagined. I still can't get over it.
 
You are right. I guess as a mother, when I try to teach my kids to play fair, and to do the right thing, this BS really hits home for me, it hi-lights the fact that sometimes it doesn't matter what the TRUTH is, if lies and misconceptions make more money. It's tough, and of course, the fact that when I wear my Pats apparell, which I do and will continue to do, and I am with 2 very small children, fans of opposing teams don't even have the respect to not say anything knowing my kids hear them.

I wonder if BB and Kraft fully understand how hurt some Pats fans are. (I say some because I understand some fans couldnt give a crap and are able to ignore it)

As a fan, and as a mother of kids who love football and the Pats, I just want this fiasco to be "fair" , I want it to be "just," I want it to be "truthful," but I have a feeling thats gone out the window.

I think this is a teaching moment, albeit a tricky one, for your kids.

After all, if the kids know they did something wrong, you can't have them saying "well everybody else does it."

You can tell them that even if everybody else does it, this is what can happen to you -- so don't be one of those that does it, in that situation.

Because even if everybody does it, if you're the guy they get, life usually isn't fair. The people who catch you won't go after you as one person out of many who "do it," they'll act like everybody else is clean, and come down hard on you.

So don't be that guy.

Yeah one more thing... teach em that you love the Pats unconditionally, just like them... and even if all this stuff is true, you'll be disappointed, but you'll keep loving them. That might be a good thing for a kid to hear.

Um, not being a mother, I have no idea whether this sounds like a dumb male trying to make sense of the world of mom-kid relations. It just seems that can get the basics into their heads without going after the authority figure directly and getting into stuff the kids won't understand (Comcast, details of the rules/interpretations, etc..)

They should know that once you're "caught," the hammer comes down on you, no matter what everybody else does... 'cuz it's a good life lesson, and it lines up exactly with what's going on.

PFnV
 
Completely agree with the OP. This is as bad as it can possibly be. Yes, that means losing the Super Bowl is worse than going 1-15. The way they played in the last game, a game that was for absolutely everything, makes it even worse than I could have imagined. I still can't get over it.

I'm over the game, but the fact that they're running these investigations and are discussing taking away the stuff that I remember thinking "They can never take these rings away from us" is just disgusting to me. It's like Specter forgot that there are people that genuinely care about this team. Which isn't surprising, politicians rarely care about the people who they're hurting.
 
The reason no one is saying anything, IMO, is because no one knows what he has. How can you respond when you don't even know what he says he has? They've already denied taping the walkthrough....should they issue a re-denial?

As for Specter and all that, for now it is a league thing because Goodell's handling of everything is what's being attacked (for now).

No one ever did themselves any favors by jumping the gun and talking when they don't even know what they are supposed to be talking about. Taping practices? Walkthroughs? Signals? Who knows anymore. GIven the level of stuff that goes on in the NFL, how does it help to scream, "OK, OK, I'll talk! I'll talk!" and dump a huge can of worms on the floor before anything tangible has even come to light?

Unfortunately, all a fan can do is wait.:(

Yep yep yep. And Walsh? He could have a goddam tape of a staff birthday party in the kitchenette in the bowels of Pats HQ, and his lawyer would say the same stuff. My guess? Tapes he meant to make as souvenirs, that show little if anything, that have been sitting in a box for 7 years... and now he's hoping somehow magically they can be converted to coin.

It's all speculation.

And of course, yes, it is an "investigation" of a "cover-up" (PS, no real concern over those CIA torture tapes... but THIS is serious business!) It's all about the League. But the idea is that the League biz will lead to the Pats biz, thereby satisfying Specter's sore loser needs as well as Comcast's anti-league needs. It seems that Goodell's line must be: "Here's why we are satisfied we handled it." Specter's line is already: "That makes me laugh, I bet that you were trying to destroy all the evidence... I'm gonna go look for it!"

The Pats' FO will make their case once they are directly questioned, when it is most advantageous to their position, as Bella says.

In the meantime... Get your popcorn ready, to coin a phrase.

PFnV
 
I went through this already once with UConn basketball in 2006. A couple kids on the team stole laptops. One kid was suspended for the year, and the other for a semester. All year long the opposition cried foul, and so did the media, when there was nothing foul about the punishments.

But you couldn't explain it to people who, one, were haters, and two, wanted to take UConn down a peg since they were clearly favored to win the national championship. When UConn lost in a huge upset in the final rounds, people were crowing everywhere. That experience actually prepared me well for this one. I just don't get upset about what the haters have to say anymore. I'm perfectly fine with everything about the Patriots except their Super Bowl performance--though if Walsh has a tape of the walkthrough I will then be very, very disappointed.


Upstarter,
Laptop thieves are much different unfair allegations of CHEATING to win Super Bowls. A great UConn team that lost to George Mason is an upset...but the 2007 New England Patriots were being talked about as the best of all time. The SB loss is much grander on anyone's scale. Also, no one is saying Calhoun's championships are 'tarnished'.
 
Upstarter,
Laptop thieves are much different unfair allegations of CHEATING to win Super Bowls. A great UConn team that lost to George Mason is an upset...but the 2007 New England Patriots were being talked about as the best of all time. The SB loss is much grander on anyone's scale. Also, no one is saying Calhoun's championships are 'tarnished'.

Anyone who watched the Week 17 matchup knows that the SB wasn't much of an upset, just like anyone who watched Pats-Rams in Foxboro '01 knew that the Pats' SB win wasn't much of an upset either. The "upset" factor comes from expectations, like most would never expect a high-flying offense to be shut down in a dome or most would never expect an undefeated team to actually LOSE the Super Bowl.

And that UConn-Mason game was a MUCH bigger upset than the Super Bowl. UConn was the best team in the country and Mason was a mid-major school that lost in the QUARTERFINALS of its conference tournament.

BTW: Some "knowledgable" posters think my only purpose is to engage in personal attacks and piss people off, so I'm sorry if this post is devoid of either, as I am apparently damaging my reputation of being a Pats-hater. Those more familiar with my years of contributions will notice that the above post is more typical of my contributions.
 
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How about when Stingly went down or when the team almost moved to St. Louis or Hartford? or when our owner cared much more about razors than football.

Or the day we played the jets for first round draft choice in the Toilet Bowl (or was it Indy?)

No team did what we did in the 2007 regular season. No one. Yes, we lost the big one to a team that wanted it more, and won as a TEAM. We need to get over it. We've been there. Give the Giants their due.

The team went 18-1 for crying out loud. Do you remember Rod Rust? Joe Kapp? THis is NOTHING.
 
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NO! I have felt worst about this team. Maybe some don't remember the drug charges after the SB in 86 when several players were using cocaine. How about when the team was going to be moved outside the region. And, the Tuna incident after that SB.

I feel very proud and honored to be a Patriots fan during this era. The haters,politicians, and media fools cannot take that away from me.
 
NO! I have felt worst about this team. Maybe some don't remember the drug charges after the SB in 86 when several players were using cocaine. How about when the team was going to be moved outside the region. And, the Tuna incident after that SB.

I feel very proud and honored to be a Patriots during this era. The haters,politicians, and media fools cannot take that away from me.

You know the reason it feels so bad right now is it just happened and is continuing with the SG witch hunt.

The "highlights" you have mentioned were horrible, as was playing for the first round pick against the BALTIMORE Colts which turned into Kenneth Sims!

Nothing could ever top the horror of Darryl Stingley as was mentioned here.

This is a good thread to get some much needed perspective.
 
I'm in my early to mid 40's..........

I've never felt this low not only as a Pats fan, but a sports fan. After the gut wrenching loss of perfection, I can't even hibernate in peace, the crap is seeping through to other channels and stations, and print. The video tape crap, Senator Specter, Matt Walsh, frivolous lawsuits, LET US GRIEVE OUR GODDAMN SEASON ENOUGH WITH ALL OF THIS BULL**** I'M GETTING SICK AND TIRED OF IT.

I've never been this depressed as a fan in my entire life and I can't even bring to focus on free agency or next year because of the over saturation and total domination of this controversy surrounding us in all phases of media, even sources non related to sports! It hurts so badly and it just won't go away. I'm so upset with the way the year ended and this is just excruciating pain to go through as a lifelong fan.... Anyone else feel this down?

Yes, thank you for writing how I feel. I would rather have a losing team that have this disgrace on our team. A team I love with all my heart.
 
Upstarter,
Laptop thieves are much different unfair allegations of CHEATING to win Super Bowls. A great UConn team that lost to George Mason is an upset...but the 2007 New England Patriots were being talked about as the best of all time. The SB loss is much grander on anyone's scale. Also, no one is saying Calhoun's championships are 'tarnished'.

Way to misread what I wrote. Way to go!

And if you follow this line of reasoning, you're just like the haters hating on the Patriots right now.

I wrote that people knocked the punishments all season long. Not the actual stealing. And I also didn't compare the two losses. I said that the UConn season prepared me for this one, simply because a bunch of haters who didn't know what they were talking about kept saying that UConn gave their top player a one semester suspension while giving a scrub a year long suspension. That scrub turned out to be AJ Price.
 
Way to misread what I wrote. Way to go!

And if you follow this line of reasoning, you're just like the haters hating on the Patriots right now.

I wrote that people knocked the punishments all season long. Not the actual stealing. And I also didn't compare the two losses. I said that the UConn season prepared me for this one, simply because a bunch of haters who didn't know what they were talking about kept saying that UConn gave their top player a one semester suspension while giving a scrub a year long suspension. That scrub turned out to be AJ Price.


I would say Marcus Williams was their 'top' player at time. Regardless, I apologize for misunderstanding/misinterpreting your original remarks.
 
NO! I have felt worst about this team. Maybe some don't remember the drug charges after the SB in 86 when several players were using cocaine. How about when the team was going to be moved outside the region. And, the Tuna incident after that SB.

I feel very proud and honored to be a Patriots fan during this era. The haters,politicians, and media fools cannot take that away from me.

Amen. I love this team.
 
How about when Stingly went down or when the team almost moved to St. Louis or Hartford? or when our owner cared much more about razors than football.

Or the day we played the jets for first round draft choice in the Toilet Bowl (or was it Indy?)

No team did what we did in the 2007 regular season. No one. Yes, we lost the big one to a team that wanted it more, and won as a TEAM. We need to get over it. We've been there. Give the Giants their due.



Also, the days of Victor Kiam, Zeke Mowat, and Lorie Olson don't make me want to 'go back and do it all over.' ....in the words of Eddie Money.
 
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