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Five Nickels or a Quarter

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by cstjohn17, Mar 7, 2012.

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  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Should the Patriots swing for the fences and try to grab Mario Williams? or try for a bunch of doubles.

    For about the same cost as Williams the Patriots could likely sign 3 or 4 of the following.

    Connolly, BJGE, Robert Meachem, Jason Jones, Adam Carriker, Jarrett Johnson, Nate Washington, Ronald Bartell, etc.

    Somehow I think the Patriots will go for plan B.
  2. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the Pats will more likely go with plan B too, but I hope the list of plan B players are better than the ones you listed.
  3. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Some won't agree, but ever since the Adalius Thomas debacle I truly believe that Belichick may hesitate on signing the biggest prized defensive Free Agent in the offseason.

    Ever since that happened the team has gone for the older type players and lower profile guys; it seems safer and if they don't work out it does not cripple the cap...

    Belichick seems to like to play it safe and I expect a bunch of Joe WTFs to be on the payroll by training camp, not the flashy players that fans want and Belichick could care less what we think anyway.

    I think he will definately sign Conolly, BJGE back...then maybe even look at Koppen again and work on the middle part of FA shopping and the draft to complete his team for 2012.

    I would be totally surprised if Wallace,Williams,Jackson ect: come here...A player like Reggie Wayne who will come pretty cheap and has back pedigree and experience is what Belichick usually seeks in a player.

    I would expect guys like Reggie Wayne as offensive players and Matt Roth type defensive players to be looked at more seriously than the expensive ones.

    This team went all out on a frenzied shopping spree in 2007 and it appears to be a rarity when this team does that.
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  4. olschool

    olschool Rookie

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    After Adalius Thomas and Moss definitely plan B.
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    After Len Bias and Adalius Thomas I am forever shy on tying up all your marbles in a marquis player..
  6. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Your analogy reminds me of a George Carlin joke. I never F'ed a 10 but one night I F'ed 5 2s and I think that ought to count for something.



    That said I tend to lean toward plan B.
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm fine with spending for top end talent. I'm just not sold on Williams.
  8. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    What could possibly be your reasoning for not being sold on Williams?
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think people overstate the Adalius Thomas impact on Belichick going after high priced free agents.

    First, Belichick did pursue Julius Peppers. The money quickly got into the ridiculous range and the Pats dropped out, but if Belichick wasn't going to spend in free agency he wouldn't have even made the call.

    Second, free agency has been pretty devoid of most of the top players worth spending big bucks on. Prior few years to the uncapped year, teams were able to retain most of their best players because the constantly growing cap. The uncapped year kept most of the best would be free agents stuck with their teams because they became RFAs with the poison pill. Last year there wasn't much of a free agency.

    Since the Pats signed Thomas in 2007, name the top free agents the Pats passes on. I guarantee you they were mostly non-elite players getting elite player money. I think the Pats will be willing top pay top dollar to an elite player as long as it isn't stupid money (see Peppers), but they are not going to pay top dollar to the marquee free agents in a year where the marquee free agents are nothing more than second tier players. The only truly elite player who has hit free agency other than Peppers that I can think of since the Pats signed Thomas was Nmandi Asomougha and the Pats thought they were set at CB when he was a free agent.

    I firmly believe the biggest reason Belichick hasn't gone after high priced free agents since Adalius Thomas is because most of the high priced free agents were overpaid because the free agent pool in that year sucked.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I question his ability to cover as an OLB in the BB 3-4. At 290, he's big for the position, but you don't want him playing a 3-4 DE in the 2 gap system, either. So, in order to bring him in, the Patriots are either gambling on him as an oversized OLB or they're scrapping the return to the 3-4, which means that Williams would be hurting Spikes' future prospects.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
  11. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Is Williams that much more of a prized free agent than Adalius was in 2007?

    Not saying he would turn out to be a resentful S.O.B. like Thomas, but it is risky when you are spending huge $$$$ on ONE player to be the savior of your defense.
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  12. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Yes, Thomas was a versatile cog, Williams is an elite difference maker along the same mold as Peppers.

    Thomas played great in 2007 and even during the Superbowl he made some plays. After that it went downhill.
  13. Two Eight

    Two Eight Rookie

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    Ironically the actual melt value of a quarter is about 5 cents while the actual melt value of 5 nickels is about 30 cents...

    Just sayin'
  14. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Even Peppers would have been an experiment in our defense, but he was such an athletic freak it was worth talking about. Williams is definitely not on Peppers' level athletically or production-wise, so I'm not seeing a large investment in him.
  15. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    The comment I responded too said they were OK with spending the big money just not on Williams. I noted in a earlier response I think the wiser thing to do would be to spread out the money. That said I would love to have Mario on this team but at what cost?

    Well I guess those are some pretty valid points. I guess I would throw out two counter points I know it was for a short time but I thought he was said to be thriving in the Phillips 3-4 (which is different than ours but still) and how much coverage do you honestly remember Willie giving or even how much coverage did you get from Colvin or Vrable?

    Mostly the OLBs are asked to cover in the flats when they do cover and I think Mario has the skills to do that. He certainly is not running down field with backs and TEs.

    OK I lied a third counterpoint would be that even if we play 3-4 on first down without him I would still love to have him as a sub rusher which in the past you would say was not worth the investment but the reality is we were in our sub D more than our base. (probably too much money for someone who is not every down player but this is worst case scenario).
  16. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Is that accurate? I have heard the penny cost more than a penny to make but I have not heard this about any other currency.
  17. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    Wait a minute. Randy Moss may have ended his time here with a whimper, but he was incredible from 2007-2009.

    2007: 98 rec, 1493 yds, 15.2 ypc, 23 td
    2008: 69 rec, 1008 yds, 14.6 ypc, 11 td
    2009: 83 rec, 1264 yds, 15.2 ypc, 13 td

    How in the world was he a bad free agent signing? Guy was incredible those three seasons.
  18. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    AT had 5 tackles and 2 sacks in the SB, and he should have had a 3rd on the Tyree play but he was held around his neck (no call, of course). He didn't just "make some plays" in that game....he was a monster.
  19. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Colvin learned to cover. Vrabel was capable in coverage. Willie was playing the elephant at a time where the rest of the defense could make up for his coverage issues, which weren't as bad as Williams' are likely to be.

    It was only a small sample but, when I saw Williams, I didn't see a player capable of playing much coverage.

    Yeah, you don't drop $16 million on a sub rusher who hasn't registered even 10 sacks in any of the last 3 seasons. Hell, for that matter, you don't drop that kind of cash on a full-time pass rusher who hasn't registered even 10 sacks in any of the last 3 seasons. That's my take, anyway.
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Marcus Trufant will be increasing the CB free agent pool by one:

    Seahawks will release Marcus Trufant | ProFootballTalk

    As a cut, he won't have to wait until FA starts to start looking for a job. He could be one of those nickels (maybe a dime).
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