ESPN's Michael Smith: Brady Is Not Clutch

[nekromantique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmasspatsfan

Whats a lot, they've lost 8 games in the last 2 1/2 years, how many did the defense give up at the end other than the Seattle game?

Well, not to be a smartass but there are 2 really big SB games that immediately come to mind that would have given them 2 more rings and 2 more duckboat parades....

So far in this season alone through 6 games the defense has allowed at least 2 more that I can think of, both to Baltimore and Seattle.

There was certainly the late game heroics of Eli Manning here in Foxborough in the regular season last year too, which was pathetic as well.

So far we're up to 50% of their losses (4) in the past 2 years right off the top of my head. Since it's 6 am here I'm not going to go back through every single one of their losses since the start of the 2010 season though.

I think it's great that we've only lost 8 games in the past 2 1/2 seasons, but the defense needs to be accountable for allowing way too many 4th quarter points too, which has become an alarming trend.

Too many 4th quarter points have equaled all 3 of our losses so far this year, the past 3 NYG games (2 of which were SB's), and the playoff loss to the NYJ in the 2010 postseason; so that would be 7 out of the last 8 losses.

The only game where giving up too many 4th quarter pts really didn't seem to matter much was the Steeler game last year which was a 25-17 loss.

As a defense, they need to stop allowing 4th quarter pts late in games, and it won't force Brady into having to overcome insane obstacles to try and win in clutch situations.

I would hardly say the arizona game was giving up too many points in the 4th. that game was all about the offense and special teams struggling...not the d.


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[supafly]

I would hardly say the arizona game was giving up too many points in the 4th. that game was all about the offense and special teams struggling...not the d.


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And I think you would actually be a lot closer to correct than I would be in that instance, but it's yet another example of the defense allowing points late in the game when it matters most. I included ARZ too, since the defense allowed a key 4th quarter drive and score, so it could certainly be debated both ways.

There are also plenty of things that the defense has done right too.

The J.Sanders INT of Manning comes to mind when he last came here in an IND uniform.

The INT that Mayo had in the WAS game was yet another, and the good pass breakup from Sterling Moore in the AFFCG is one more too.

It isn't that I necessarily mean to trample the defense, but I do think that allowing 4th quarter points here has become an unwelcome trend.

I threw the ARZ game in too, due to the fact that it was only 13-9 in the 4th quarter of that game, as I mentioned earlier.

Preventing more 4th quarter pts will go a long way in getting this team more wins overall, and will also keep Brady from having to do his Superman impression quite as often; as the law of averages seems to be catching up with him lately. That law of averages leads to articles written like these.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Gotta love redundant threads started by the guy who runs the joint.

I'm sure his rationale would be Michael Smith tweeted this to him. A guy who left this beat with a hair across his ass where Bill was concerned. Who since moving home to Houston and landing a spot on the ESPN roster has disappeared short of his intermittent hatchet job efforts for the world wide leader.

 

[Kontradiction]

And in the vast majority of those losses, the defense usually gave up a back-breaking last minute drive.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Preventing more 4th quarter pts will go a long way in getting this team more wins overall, and will also keep Brady from having to do his Superman impression quite as often; as the law of averages seems to be catching up with him lately. That law of averages leads to articles written like these.

Limiting points sure, but preventing them is a pipedream. The way the rules are enforced is designed to favor late game heroics. If you want to protect a lead late it better be greater than a TD or your offense better still be scoring some points. I'd personally say that: > TD = blowing it, TD = gray area, and < TD = not on them. In order for me to start laying blame on the D for allowing a single TD in the 4th I'd need to see some clear evidence that that's some how below average in that situation; from what I've seen that's not the case.

 

[Creative Username]

A couple thoughts come to mind.

1. The Cleveland Browns are tops in the league in this stat. They blow fewer 4th qtr. leads than any other team.

2. The Patriots defense does blow a lot of 4th qtr. leads.

That's because they never HAVE the lead in the 4th Quarter.

 

[Kontradiction]

I really don't understand why this is so hard for people to grasp. If you look at it, it's simple. The Patriots' relative inability to win close games going into the fourth quarter only began happening when we started fielding a defense that simply was not that good, or rebuilding. Study the afformentioned games and you'll find that it was the defense that always let the other team back in the game when adjustments were made, and you'll find that it was the defense that usually gave up the long, back-breaking drive for the other team to win the game. If you want evidence of this, look no further than the two Giants games last year.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

I really don't understand why this is so hard for people to grasp. If you look at it, it's simple. The Patriots' relative inability to win close games going into the fourth quarter only began happening when we started fielding a defense that simply was not that good, or rebuilding. Study the afformentioned games and you'll find that it was the defense that always let the other team back in the game when adjustments were made, and you'll find that it was the defense that usually gave up the long, back-breaking drive for the other team to win the game. If you want evidence of this, look no further than the two Giants games last year.

It certainly isn't that simple. Just looking at losses without an arbitrary "close" context it appears even the good defenses struggled to shut down teams in the 4th after the rule clarification.

2006
4 of 5

2005
5 of 7

2004
1 of 2

2003
1 of 2

2002
2 of 7

2001
2 of 5

losses where the Pats allowed 7 points or more in the 4th. It seems more likely that the difference these days is these games are lost to a team coming from behind.

 

[Jackson 2]

I saw the entire clip on ESPN 2 this morning and what you don't see on the clip here are the reactions of Jalen Rose and another guy on the panel with Smith. After Smith's pitch, Rose basically says that Smith's suggestion is so ridiculous that he won't dignfiy it with a response and the other guy just shakes his head in disgust. I know Rose is a Michigan guy like Brady, but both reactions were just what was deserved. Good for them.

 

[the Patriot]

Quarterbacks always get a disproportionate amount of credit and blame. P. Manning is being applauded for the Broncos amazing comeback when his offense only scored 21 points all game. Peyton wasn't able to run out the clock when the Broncos were only up 4 points. They had to punt the ball, but luckily the Broncos D closed it out. A tale of two defenses.

 

[grux]

Simple question, What QB is more clutch than Brady? There is more to being a great QB than 4th quater comebacks. Quite frankly, there hasn't been many opportunities for late game comebacks because we usually have a comfortable lead.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

To continue my line of thought, looking at close games in the 2005 and 2006 seasons since those defenses were considered good, but were post clarification.

2005       Pats vs Pit
score:        23 - 20
4th qtr pts:  13 - 7

2005       Pats vs Atl
score:        31 - 28
4th qtr pts:   3 - 15

2005       Pats vs Bills
score:        21 - 16
4th qtr pts:  14 - 6

2005       Pats vs Phins
score:        23 - 16
4th qtr pts:  11 - 9

2005       Pats vs NO
score:        24 - 17
4th qtr pts:   3 - 10

2005       Pats vs Phins
score:        26 - 28
4th qtr pts:  13 - 10

2006       Pats vs Bills
score:        19 - 17
4th qtr pts:   5 - 0

2006       Pats vs Jets
score:        24 - 17
4th qtr pts:   0 - 3

2006       Pats vs Ind
score:        20 - 27
4th qtr pts:   3 - 3

2006       Pats vs Jets
score:        14 - 17
4th qtr pts:   8 - 7

2006       Pats vs Chi
score:        17 - 13
4th qtr pts:  7 - 10

2006       Pats vs Jags
score:        24 - 21
4th qtr pts:   7 - 7

2006       Pats vs SD
score:        24 - 21
4th qtr pts:  11 - 7

2006       Pats vs Ind
score:        34 - 38
4th qtr pts:   6 - 17

Yeah certainly looks like holding teams to under a TD in the 4th was how we were handling close games...

 

[Snake Eyes]

Quarterbacks always get a disproportionate amount of credit and blame. P. Manning is being applauded for the Broncos amazing comeback when his offense only scored 21 points all game. Peyton wasn't able to run out the clock when the Broncos were only up 4 points. They had to punt the ball, but luckily the Broncos D closed it out. A tale of two defenses.

There are times when the defense is to blame but there are also times when the offense is to blame as well. Our offensive production in the 4th quarter is bad, even in games we win it’s common that we wind up surviving the other team.

Take a look at the recent Denver game, the offense was weak in the 4th quarter which allowed Manning to get back on the field and light it up.

Blame the defense all you want but that has no effect on the ability of the offense to sustain drives and score, and like it or not the patriots are very weak at that late in games.

 

[upstater1]

Simple question, What QB is more clutch than Brady? There is more to being a great QB than 4th quater comebacks. Quite frankly, there hasn't been many opportunities for late game comebacks because we usually have a comfortable lead.

Brady has a lot of 4th qtr comebacks in his career as well. If you measure by ratio of games played to 4th qtr comebacks, Brady is at the top of the list.

People also seem to forget some things.

Brady has played in 5 Super Bowls. In 3 of those Super Bowls, he pulled his team ahead with a comeback drive in the final 2 minutes.

In one of those SBs, the team had a lead throughout the game.

In another of those Super Bowls, the Patriots were going for the winning drive when Brady either missed their star WR or else the WR dropped the ball.

In both of the lost Super Bowls, Brady threw bombs in the final seconds that could have been caught for winning touchdowns.

The way I see it, Brady lead clutch drives in to take the lead in 3 Super Bowls in the 4th quarter, and only last year did he flounder.

3 for 4.

 

[the Patriot]

There are times when the defense is to blame but there are also times when the offense is to blame as well. Our offensive production in the 4th quarter is bad, even in games we win it’s common that we wind up surviving the other team.

Take a look at the recent Denver game, the offense was weak in the 4th quarter which allowed Manning to get back on the field and light it up.

Blame the defense all you want but that has no effect on the ability of the offense to sustain drives and score, and like it or not the patriots are very weak at that late in games.

I see your point, but every offense in the league stalls. The Patriots offense is 1st in the league in yards/game and 1st in the league in points/game. It's hard to ask for a better offense.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I see your point, but every offense in the league stalls. The Patriots offense is 1st in the league in yards/game and 1st in the league in points/game. It's hard to ask for a better offense.

We seem to stall a lot more late in games.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

The problem is in 2 of their 3 losses they scored 3 points in the 4th, which isn't that great. The onus shouldn't be entirely on them, but they're definitely part of the 4th qtr woes that seem to haunt the Pats.

 

[stcjones]

I don't think that there is ANY question that Brady is no longer the "Mr. Clutch" that he used to be. Back in 01-05, if we were behind with :50 seconds on the clock and Brady and company had the ball....EVERYONE knew Brady was going to march the team down the field and win the game...The guy was just amazing. He is NOT that same guy anymore for whatever reason. I think when you looked at his face in the SB in 07 where they still had some time left....and the PO game against the Jests....and many other games over the past few years where we are trying to come from behind.....he DOESN'T have that old CONFIDENT look on his face anymore. I think Brady is still in the top 3 QB in the league and one of the greatest of all time...just not as clutch as he used to be

Now in using the term "clutch" I am doing so in regards to come back victories at the end of the game.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That's because they never HAVE the lead in the 4th Quarter.

Methinks that was the point he was trying to make.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Now in using the term "clutch" I am doing so in regards to come back victories at the end of the game.

Here's the way I look at it: he's not always going to win—the Patriots' success in protecting 4Q leads was so far out of whack statistically that it had to end eventually—but you can never count him out, either.