Doyel: Pats, Colts, and everybody else...

[Bo0MeR]

Harrison and Moss a push? Are you kidding me? Lets see, Moss is faster, has better hands, oh and has put up better numbers in ever catagory throughout his career without the best QB (granted Culpepper was great in min). I'm sorry, but Harrison doesn't hold a candle to Moss. And last time I checked, Harrison doesn't have a nickname like "Superfreak".

well, Harrison= 1 Ring Moss= 0 rings. So Harrison has to be better, ain't that right Pat fans?

 

[Bo0MeR]

double post

 

[Oswlek]

well, Harrison= 1 Ring Moss= 0 rings. So Harrison has to be better, ain't that right Pats fans?

Touche.

I agree with you that Satch is going a little over the top with his post. Moss' hands are incredible, but Harrison's are as well. IMHO, Harrison has retained more of his peak speed than Moss. Harrison would probably get the nod as far as route running goes as well, although it isn't quite a big an edge as many would have thought going into this season.

Where Moss does have an advantage is that he can do more with a pass even if he is completely covered just because he is taller and has unusually long arms. But Harrison offsets some of this by using his quickness to gain just enough seperation at the last second.

I see no reason to split hairs with this one. Both are excellent.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

well, Harrison= 1 Ring Moss= 0 rings. So Harrison has to be better, ain't that right Pat fans?

HEY D-BAG - I know reading is not a huge priority skill for you colts fans...... but just TRY. Go back and you will notice I said just QB's and Coaches.

With FEW exceptions the greatest QB's and coaches are measured by SB wins over PURE stats only. QB's and Coaches. Most great QBs and coaches have a SB resume (with good reason), but the same measure does not apply to ANY other skill position.

 

[Bo0MeR]

Touche.

I agree with you that Satch is going a little over the top with his post. Moss' hands are incredible, but Harrison's are as well. IMHO, Harrison has retained more of his peak speed than Moss. Harrison would probably get the nod as far as route running goes as well, although it isn't quite a big an edge as many would have thought going into this season.

Where Moss does have an advantage is that he can do more with a pass even if he is completely covered just because he is taller and has unusually long arms. But Harrison offsets some of this by using his quickness to gain just enough seperation at the last second.

I see no reason to split hairs with this one. Both are excellent.

good post, I agree with everything you said .

 

[Bo0MeR]

HEY D-BAG - I know reading is not a huge priority skill for you colts fans...... but just TRY. Go back and you will notice I said just QB's and Coaches.

With FEW exceptions the greatest QB's and coaches are measured by SB wins over PURE stats only. QB's and Coaches. Most great QBs and coaches have a SB resume (with good reason), but the same measure does not apply to ANY other skill position.

Yeah, because the coaches and QB's are the ONLY people who affect and win SB's.

 

[primetime]

I have a question & I'd love to hear some responses.

Is Moss really fast? I ask because everytime I see him in the open field, he looks silly trying to juke-out the opposing players. It seems he just ends up running straight into them.

I'm not complaining...as a matter of fact, I'll get on my knees and claim "I am not worthy" before him. I'm just wondering

Moss is great, but remember this isn't the college game. These are professionals who he's trying to juke out, and most of them are good tacklers. It's insane to say Moss isn't fast because he gets tackled, though.

 

[He Ban Me]

Sorry, took your wording wrong. Sounded like you were referencing our opposing D's PPG ave. My bad.

Okay, terrible is an overstatement. But his were FAR FROM MVP numbers, really (Peyton Manning - 25 for 38 for 247 yards. 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 lost fumble. QB Rating 81.8). Those are BELOW AVERAGE for him. Like I said, it doesn't matter, the WIN does.

READ WHAT I SAID AGAIN. The measure is Super Bowl wins and no matter how average your stats are, when you are QB, it's your job to general the troops to victory. Stats can be meaningless (like PM's SB stats last year), but SB wins are NEVER meaningless.

By extenuation: Brady - 3, Manning - 1 translates to Brady > Manning when it comes to the complete QB package. PM could very well go on a tear and wing the next 6 SB and things will then change. But for now, its still 3-1.

.......and I actually gaining a lot of respect for Payton the last few years. Hate the Colts, but there is no denying that boy can play.

Cool, NP

SB wins?? Marino was an awesome QB, Dilfer is not better than Marino. A lot of factors come in to play. I think Manning has really matured in just the last 2 years or so. I think he is a much better game manager than in the past. I'm telling you, it was awesome watching him this past Sunday, breaking the huddle, lining up down 10-0, barking out his commands. He's got a ton of confidence, and he's got a complete team, and he's got someone to push him.

 

[JJDChE]

I just don't think you are close on this:

Addai is just riding the coattails of the passing game. He's a decent receiver and a good open field runner, but on almost any other team he'd be below average.


I think it pains mant to think that the Colts have a player or two at certain positions that are more talented than the Pats counterparts. ESPECIALLY when a player is in the same draft class, and NE picked first

This has nothing to do with Maroney, who at this point doesn't look that great anyway and he's been injury prone.

I think Addai is average. Maybe below average was a overstatement. But I don't think you could put him on many teams besides the Colts that he would perform this well, or even close to this well. Teams just don't play the run vs. the Colts. Virtually every RB in the NFL would put up big numbers in that offense. You put Addai on Miami or SD and he wouldn't be looking too good. He can't carry a team. He's good for the Colts, but just about anyone would be.

 

[He Ban Me]

This has nothing to do with Maroney, who at this point doesn't look that great anyway and he's been injury prone.

I think Addai is average. Maybe below average was a overstatement. But I don't think you could put him on many teams besides the Colts that he would perform this well, or even close to this well. Teams just don't play the run vs. the Colts. Virtually every RB in the NFL would put up big numbers in that offense. You put Addai on Miami or SD and he wouldn't be looking too good. He can't carry a team. He's good for the Colts, but just about anyone would be.

He is a talented runner, period. Regardless of the RB, put any RB on a team with a good O-line, he will perform (unless he absolutely sucks). If the O-line sucks, he won't be able to run (unless his name is Walter or Barry).

 

[JJDChE]

I think Addai is average. Maybe below average was a overstatement. But I don't think you could put him on many teams besides the Colts that he would perform this well, or even close to this well. Teams just don't play the run vs. the Colts. Virtually every RB in the NFL would put up big numbers in that offense...

Exhibit A: Kenton Keith, 158 yds, 2 TDs.

 

[ATippett56]

well, Harrison= 1 Ring Moss= 0 rings. So Harrison has to be better, ain't that right Pat fans?

Using that logic, Deion Branch is better than Harrison. Branch=2 rings > Harrison= 1 ring. Also, Deion Branch was a Super Bowl MVP while Rex Grossman was the Super Bowl MVP for the Colts. Never have I witnessed such inept quarterback play in my life.

 

[He Ban Me]

Exhibit A: Kenton Keith, 158 yds, 2 TDs.

Might as well say the same for NE. Exhibit A: Sammy Morris.

 

[Deus Irae]

Might as well say the same for NE. Exhibit A: Sammy Morris.

How so? Morris has averaged 4 yards a carry twice (4.0, 4.3) in his career prior to this season.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think we've gotten to the point of silliness, once again. No knock on any individual, but we're in the weeds really deep defending our respective teams.

The history, in broad strokes it is difficult to disagree with, is the following:

The Colts, by design, built a team around "Triplets", Harrison, Manning, Edge. Addai is well on the way to simply replacing Edge. The Colts added Wayne to make it Quadruplets along the way. Talent-wise, the Colts had the edge purely in terms of skill players, and often were evaluated as having the edge in many other positions (defense, it should be noted, was never Indy's forte in such comparisons.)

The Pats, by design, built a team that relied on using Brady to make any receiving corps "good enough," and used their superior preparation and coaching to make good defensive players play as one great unit. The Pats also had superior depth over the years, betting on good depth to be serviceable even against better players, rather than letting one or two or four killer injuries destroy them.

Over time, the Pats were dominant, and then last year, the Colts finally got over the hump. The why is irrelevant. If our depth ran out, it ran out; conceivably, it could be better. If we had the flu, we had the flu. We lost the game, and the Colts were the better team that day -- the only day we played the AFCCG against them last year. If they turned up the heat, they turned up the heat -- to paraphrase Tedy, "What are they gonna do, outlaw heated domes?" Don't like it? Get home team advantage.

The reason it's a supportable argument that the Pats are currently a better team than the Colts, is that the same Pats that came within 4 points of beating them in the AFCCG, added skill position talent to the point that their starting talent is actually superior to Indy's, by any objective estimation. Even an Indy homer has to identify them as roughly equivalent.

The thing is, the superior preparation, coaching, defense, and depth of the Patriots are all still intact.

The trend here is not a good one from an Indy perspective.

However, we find out on November 4 -- and then (if Indy's around, of course,) in the post-season.

Okay, we can all enjoy the hate, it's cool, that's what a rivalry's about... but let's take a second out and appreciate what we have here, the equivalent of a Yankees/Red Sox rivalry in the football world.

In a way, it makes it that much sweeter that Indy finally got their 1 ring; they're less of a known quantity, now that that they managed not to fold in the big game once.

I don't think they'll be playing at home this year though... and I really don't like their chances in either venue.

PFnV

 

[He Ban Me]

How so? Morris has averaged 4 yards a carry twice (4.0, 4.3) in his career prior to this season.

Hey, insert anyone in your offense, even a sub par guy, and they'll be good. It's easy to say.

This premise is bull****, isn't it?

 

[JJDChE]

Hey, insert anyone in your offense, even a sub par guy, and they'll be good. It's easy to say.

This premise is bull****, isn't it?

No. See: Denver Broncos.


Broncos aside, it's pretty obvious that having a great passing game makes life easy for the RB.

 

[JJDChE]

Might as well say the same for NE. Exhibit A: Sammy Morris.

I won't argue.

 

[He Ban Me]

No. See: Denver Broncos.


Broncos aside, it's pretty obvious that having a great passing game makes life easy for the RB.

The Dolphins with Marino beg to differ. I know what you are saying, but you still have to have some guys to run block, have to have a guy who hits holes, has vision, etc..,

 

[Deus Irae]

Hey, insert anyone in your offense, even a sub par guy, and they'll be good. It's easy to say.

This premise is bull****, isn't it?

No, it's not. Denver is similar in its ability to plug in a running back and get great results.