Doyel: Pats, Colts, and everybody else...

[Blue18]

Blue, no need to be defensive. Manning has more history with great numbers, so the edge goes to him at the moment. But you have to admit that if Brady does continue this ridiculous passing effeciency that the WR quality question has to become legitimate at some time.

BTW, you are going way, way overboard with your denigration of Brady. Please try to keep your posts reasonable.

Exactly, i know it was. I'm giving certain people a taste of their medicine. What i said was laced with homerism and hate. That's exactly what some guys do on this board. Brady is great. Why can't you guys admit Manning is too.

 

[Oswlek]

Exactly, i know it was. I'm giving certain people a taste of their medicine. What i said was laced with homerism and hate. That's exactly what some guys do on this board. Brady is great. Why can't you guys admit Manning is too.

I think what you will find here is mostly grudging respect to outright admiration. Sure every fanbase has their share of homers and flakes - I doubt that I will find any different on Indystar or wherever - but most here are comfortable admitting that Manning is an all-time great.

 

[Blue18]

I apologize if i offended anyone.

 

[Oswlek]

I apologize if i offended anyone.

Just talk football and try not to let the obvious Pats bias bother you and apology accepted. It *is* a Pats board after all.

 

[363839]

You know, blue18, I did go a little over the top in my response to you.
I actually think Brady and Manning are both great QBs any team would kill for.
Those who want respect, give respect.

 

[JJDChE]

The Cotls offense is better. Not because Peyton is better than Brady, or Harrison is better than Moss, or Addai is better than Maroney.

It's because they've been together for so long that their precision and execution is unmatched. That's why they are so hard to stop. They're better than the sum of their parts.

Manning and Harrison are great players. Wayne is very good, but wouldn't be near as good without Manning. Addai is just riding the coattails of the passing game. He's a decent receiver and a good open field runner, but on almost any other team he'd be below average.

 

[He Ban Me]

Question:

If Manning is better, Wayne is better, Clark is better, Addai is better and Moss and Harrison are a push...................

Then why do we have the best offense in the league statistically?

In my unbiaed opinion, Brady and Manning are pretty even.

Moss is game changingly better than any receiver the Colts have. That's no knock. Moss is just THAT good.

Our WR's 1 through 4 are better than the Colts receivers 1 through 4.

Dallas Clark is a great receiving TE, and beats Watson thre for sure.

Addai is there only horse at RB. The combination of Maroney, Morris and Faulk equal his contributions.

Add our defensive dominance, there is no contest.

Because you have played ****tier defenses than we have. Seriously, 32+ppg? WTF?

 

[He Ban Me]

The Cotls offense is better. Not because Peyton is better than Brady, or Harrison is better than Moss, or Addai is better than Maroney.

It's because they've been together for so long that their precision and execution is unmatched. That's why they are so hard to stop. They're better than the sum of their parts.

Manning and Harrison are great players. Wayne is very good, but wouldn't be near as good without Manning. Addai is just riding the coattails of the passing game. He's a decent receiver and a good open field runner, but on almost any other team he'd be below average.

^^^Nuttier than a fruitcake^^^

 

[Brady to Brown]

Can't compare both offenses today.

Lets look at things in 8 weeks once Brady has a chance to get used to all of his new teammates.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Brady is obviously better than Manning.

Brady has better stats indoors than Manning.

Brady has better stats outdoors than Manning.

Brady has had far worse receivers throughout his career.

If Manning had Brady's receivers and played outdoors, nobody would mention him in the same sentence as Brady.

Shame on all these "so called" experts for ignoring the wildly different circumstances in which Brady and Manning have operated.

So true, it hurts.

Manning is overrated compared to Brady and people are apparently too stupid to get that Brady has always done more with less, and now he does more with more.

 

[JJDChE]

^^^Nuttier than a fruitcake^^^

And why is that?

 

[PatriotsReign]

Not a big fan of the article. "Peyton is better than Brady". Really? So why did he fall flat on his ass when playing that Pats (minus the last 3 games)? Brady is clutch (3 rings baby) and now playing better than anyone. Sorry, but I take Brady over Manning.

Harrison and Moss a push? Are you kidding me? Lets see, Moss is faster, has better hands, oh and has put up better numbers in ever catagory throughout his career without the best QB (granted Culpepper was great in min). I'm sorry, but Harrison doesn't hold a candle to Moss. And last time I checked, Harrison doesn't have a nickname like "Superfreak".

I like our offense better than Indy. We could put up the same kind of numbers, while actually playing smart football (ie, running the ball in the second half of the game with a lead ::cough::manning::cough::.

I have a question & I'd love to hear some responses.

Is Moss really fast? I ask because everytime I see him in the open field, he looks silly trying to juke-out the opposing players. It seems he just ends up running straight into them.

I'm not complaining...as a matter of fact, I'll get on my knees and claim "I am not worthy" before him. I'm just wondering

 

[Peytonsbetter]

Andy talked about this, but Indy's defense really didn't do much at all. His post does a nice job of discussing causes, but it basically says what I have been saying since the preseason; Indy's defense was incredibly fortunate to face three one dimensional offenses (two of which were bad), and one that had injury issues.

Indy's "improvement" in the second half not-so-surprisingly correlated with the loss of Faulk and Dillon.

Right, the Colt's didn't WIN the Super Bowl last year, 4 other teams LOST it.

Gotcha.:bricks:

 

[Truck]

Is Moss really fast? I ask because everytime I see him in the open field, he looks silly trying to juke-out the opposing players. It seems he just ends up running straight into them.

I'm not complaining...as a matter of fact, I'll get on my knees and claim "I am not worthy" before him. I'm just wondering

1. Moss is really fast
2. Even a fast person has a hard time running around another slightly less fast person -- remember said person is going to cut down the angle, and the area to run in is constantly collapsing as the other players move in.
3. A juke, spin,side-step,etc are the only way to run around said person (unless you have space between the two of you to run really wide around the person)
4. I agree Moss's jukes aren't working (atleast not after the catch, might be working before the catch).
5. Some receivers try running right thru the opponent instead of around
6. Moss doesnt like to get hit. Witness how he falls as soon as a db is close to him.
7 I'm okay with the above since I'd rather have a 100% healthy moss playing the game (and playing every week) then a banged up moss (Just see what Ty Law did to Harrison last year, & in 03,04 to see how constantly getting hit during a game could turn one of the best receivers in the game into a nobody).

 

[Oswlek]

Right, the Colt's didn't WIN the Super Bowl last year, 4 other teams LOST it.

Gotcha.:bricks:

What did I say that isn't true?

Is it inaccurate to say that Indy faced three terribly one dimensional offenses?

Is it inaccurate to say that NE had better offensive success when they had Faulk and Dillon available?

You extrapolate a lot from my post that I didn't say.

 

[primetime]

If Manning had Brady's receivers and played outdoors, nobody would mention him in the same sentence as Brady.

I had been in the "Manning is better" camp, but this year might have propelled me into the "it's a push" camp... and if this keeps up, and the Patriots beat the Colts, then maybe the "Brady is the best of all-time" camp.

 

[He Ban Me]

And why is that?

I just don't think you are close on this:

Addai is just riding the coattails of the passing game. He's a decent receiver and a good open field runner, but on almost any other team he'd be below average.


I think it pains mant to think that the Colts have a player or two at certain positions that are more talented than the Pats counterparts. ESPECIALLY when a player is in the same draft class, and NE picked first

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Bwahahaha @ comparing them after 4 games. But it's funny how now stats are the measuring stick of who's better when Brady is ahead. Manning can throw five Td with one hand behind his back. Will that be your argument when Manning surpasses Brady? Then you'll use the old "but Brady has 3 rings argument."

To the other guy Addai > any pats back. Lol @ being homers and not realizing that.

Manning > Brady plain and simple. I wouldn't trade Manning for Brady NEVER EVER.

UMMMMM, yeah. the measuring stick is and always will be SB rings, period. Your job as a QB is to help general your team through as many wins per season and playoff victories as possible, and the ultimate measure is a SB Win.

Manning was TERRIBLE in the SB last year, but he was effective enough to get the win, so that automatically glosses over what was a mediocre game and there is no luster lost to the ring.

Gaudy stats are nice and all, and right now, none are more gaudy then Brady's, but don't dilude yourself, SB Wins is the MOST important measure of a QB and a Coach.

So far it stands at, Brady 3, Manning 1

Because you have played ****tier defenses than we have. Seriously, 32+ppg? WTF?

You do realize that part of those 32 PPG are a direct result of LARGE number put up against them by the pats. Look at the JETS - 103 PA w/ Pats 38 = 25.8 PPG. Take out the Pats pasting ad it goes down to 21.6 PPG, which moves them from 27th to 17th. Do the same for all the other teams and it essentially does the same thing.

Stats can be manipulated ANY way you want. SB wins cannot. See answer above. Nice try homer.

 

[He Ban Me]

UMMMMM, yeah. the measuring stick is and always will be SB rings, period. Your job as a QB is to help general your team through as many wins per season and playoff victories as possible, and the ultimate measure is a SB Win.

Manning was TERRIBLE in the SB last year, but he was effective enough to get the win, so that automatically glosses over what was a mediocre game and there is no luster lost to the ring.

Gaudy stats are nice and all, and right now, none are more gaudy then Brady's, but don't dilude yourself, SB Wins is the MOST important measure of a QB and a Coach.

So far it stands at, Brady 3, Manning 1



You do realize that part of those 32 PPG are a direct result of LARGE number put up against them by the pats. Look at the JETS - 103 PA w/ Pats 38 = 25.8 PPG. Take out the Pats pasting ad it goes down to 21.6 PPG, which moves them from 27th to 17th. Do the same for all the other teams and it essentially does the same thing.

Stats can be manipulated ANY way you want. SB wins cannot. See answer above. Nice try homer.

The 32 PPG was in reference to the Colts average. I understand NE's is higher, but when you get to this point, I think you have to say that both offenses are pretty damn good.

BTW, Manning was not terrible in the SB last season. How did Tom fare at home in your slop fest against the Jets?
Spotted Chicago a 7-0 lead off the get. Did he fold under the rain and the pressure? Hell no. He managed that game masterfully. He's the leader of that offense. He take his cue from Dungy, and passes it on in the huddle. No one panicked, no one wilted. They rose up and performed under a deluge of rain. Stop trying to take it away.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

The 32 PPG was in reference to the Colts average. I understand NE's is higher, but when you get to this point, I think you have to say that both offenses are pretty damn good.

BTW, Manning was not terrible in the SB last season. How did Tom fare at home in your slop fest against the Jets?
Spotted Chicago a 7-0 lead off the get. Did he fold under the rain and the pressure? Hell no. He managed that game masterfully. He's the leader of that offense. He take his cue from Dungy, and passes it on in the huddle. No one panicked, no one wilted. They rose up and performed under a deluge of rain. Stop trying to take it away.

Sorry, took your wording wrong. Sounded like you were referencing our opposing D's PPG ave. My bad.

Okay, terrible is an overstatement. But his were FAR FROM MVP numbers, really (Peyton Manning - 25 for 38 for 247 yards. 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 lost fumble. QB Rating 81.8). Those are BELOW AVERAGE for him. Like I said, it doesn't matter, the WIN does.

READ WHAT I SAID AGAIN. The measure is Super Bowl wins and no matter how average your stats are, when you are QB, it's your job to general the troops to victory. Stats can be meaningless (like PM's SB stats last year), but SB wins are NEVER meaningless.

By extenuation: Brady - 3, Manning - 1 translates to Brady > Manning when it comes to the complete QB package. PM could very well go on a tear and wing the next 6 SB and things will then change. But for now, its still 3-1.

.......and I actually gaining a lot of respect for Payton the last few years. Hate the Colts, but there is no denying that boy can play.