Double up on OLB early?

[cstjohn17]

It looks to be a strong class of OLB.

In no order (Barwin, Johnson,Borwn, Maybin, Matthews, English, Cushing, Stintim, Curry, Orakpo) all are likely to be selected in the first two rounds.

Taking two OLB would great tremendous depth within the LB group. Thomas could move to multiple positions, shifting inside or playing either outside spots. Mayo would be a constant inside.

Barwin & Johnson? That is a pretty good haul.

 

[14thDragon]

It looks to be a strong class of OLB.

In no order (Barwin, Johnson,Borwn, Maybin, Matthews, English, Cushing, Stintim, Curry, Orakpo) all are likely to be selected in the first two rounds.

Taking two OLB would great tremendous depth within the LB group. Thomas could move to multiple positions, shifting inside or playing either outside spots. Mayo would be a constant inside.

Barwin & Johnson? That is a pretty good haul.

And who would you cut from the team? You can only carry so many OLB.

 

[cstjohn17]

And who would you cut from the team? You can only carry so many OLB.

Yes, cuts happen when rosters improve.


LBs (13 in total)
- Bruschi, Thomas, Ruud, Crable, Mayo, Guyton, Redd, Craig, Banta-Cain, Alexander, Woods, Draft Pick 1, Draft Pick 2

Likely to end up with 9 or so.
Ruud, Alexander, Craig are pretty easy cuts
TBC, Redd, Bruschi are the next tier

Left with something like:
ROLB - TBC, Draft Pick 1
RILB - Thomas, Guyton
LILB - Mayo, Brsuchi
LOLB - Woods, Crable, Draft Pick 2

With Thomas floating around, trying to get him as many snaps as possible.

 

[DNR]

I'm hoping thats the plan.

Maualuga and Barwin would be my priorities with the first 2 picks.

 

[bobbybigdrum]

My wet dream first two picks 1-23= Brian Cushing, 2-3= Larry English

Cushing probably won't be there....

 

[mgteich]

I am all for two linebackers early, but I expect one of them to be a backup inside. I don't want to move Thomas inside and leave no experience outside. Besides, Thomas is a fine OLB.

If we end up with 6 OLB's and 3 ILB's, someone would move inside in case of an ILB injury. Also two of the OLB's wouldn't get many reps at all. In the end, seven LB's get all the reps: 4 OLB's and 3 ILB's. In a pinch, 5 get 90% of the reps, 3 OLB's and 2 ILB's.

 

[14thDragon]

Yes, cuts happen when rosters improve.

Left with something like:
ROLB - TBC, Draft Pick 1
RILB - Thomas, Guyton
LILB - Mayo, Brsuchi
LOLB - Woods, Crable, Draft Pick 2

With Thomas floating around, trying to get him as many snaps as possible.

Ok, that is why I would disagree with drafting the two OLB early. I would rather not have Tully and Woods as my starting OLB, and I would not count Thomas as an ILB.

But that is just my opinion.

 

[mayoclinic]

I am all for two linebackers early, but I expect one of them to be a backup inside. I don't want to move Thomas inside and leave no experience outside. Besides, Thomas is a fine OLB.

If we end up with 6 OLB's and 3 ILB's, someone would move inside in case of an ILB injury. Also two of the OLB's wouldn't get many reps at all. In the end, seven LB's get all the reps: 4 OLB's and 3 ILB's. In a pinch, 5 get 90% of the reps, 3 OLB's and 2 ILB's.

I am all for two linebackers early, but I want one of them to be an OLB and one to be an SILB (possibly one who can play inside) who can form a core 3 man rotation with Mayo and Guyton. The other OLB would be pencilled in as a future starter, hopefully with Crable growing into the other starting role (people have given up on him way too quickly). We would have 5 OLBs (with AD and Woods starting in 2009, and Tully and Redd fighting for the 5th spot) and 4 ILBs (with Bruschi being the 4th, or Alexander if Bruschi retires).

As you say, in the end 7 LBs get all the reps, and the other 2 aren't on the 44 man game day roster.

 

[cstjohn17]

Ok, that is why I would disagree with drafting the two OLB early. I would rather not have Tully and Woods as my starting OLB, and I would not count Thomas as an ILB.

But that is just my opinion.

It looks pretty ugly when you put it in writing... I am sure we all remember the SD game, TBC's last game as a Pat. In reality, the rotation would likely never have Woods and TBC and the field at the same time. Bruschi or Guyton would rotate inside Thomas and whoever is the bext situational player opposite him.

 

[CoachK]

I'm hoping thats the plan.

Maualuga and Barwin would be my priorities with the first 2 picks.

We would have to package #58 with 23 to move up and get Maualuga, and hope that Barwin is still there at #34.

I would love to see that, and isn't that what draft currency (picks) is for !!

 

[signbabybrady]

I am all for two linebackers early, but I expect one of them to be a backup inside. I don't want to move Thomas inside and leave no experience outside. Besides, Thomas is a fine OLB.

If we end up with 6 OLB's and 3 ILB's, someone would move inside in case of an ILB injury. Also two of the OLB's wouldn't get many reps at all. In the end, seven LB's get all the reps: 4 OLB's and 3 ILB's. In a pinch, 5 get 90% of the reps, 3 OLB's and 2 ILB's.

I am with you if we go for 2 LBs early one should be inside one outside....You can still move AD around just when you do a combo of Woods, TBC, and rookie would be outside....getting one ILB and one OLB is better balanced and fills to needs though I do get your philosphy of two chances being better at suceeding.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I am all for two linebackers early, but I want one of them to be an OLB and one to be an SILB (possibly one who can play inside) who can form a core 3 man rotation with Mayo and Guyton. The other OLB would be pencilled in as a future starter, hopefully with Crable growing into the other starting role (people have given up on him way too quickly). We would have 5 OLBs (with AD and Woods starting in 2009, and Tully and Redd fighting for the 5th spot) and 4 ILBs (with Bruschi being the 4th, or Alexander if Bruschi retires).

As you say, in the end 7 LBs get all the reps, and the other 2 aren't on the 44 man game day roster.

.......

 

[WhiZa]

Matthews can play inside or outside. Book it!

 

[Ungeheuer]

I think the plan should be even more specific. They should cough up one of their second-round picks -- maybe 47, maybe 59 -- and go up to get Maualuga. Then use 34 to get an OLB.

I know they have other needs, but an impact player like Maualuga and a guy like Clint Sintim or Larry English would really set them up for a while. They need a big, fast, violent, Mike-type backer and there's only one of those in the draft. Between Thomas, Woods, Crable and whoever they pick in the second round, they can get by on the outside.

Follow this plan and you still have one more second-rounder to go after other needs (OT? S?) and then two third-rounders to pick up a wideout and another lineman. Seems to me with all the ammo the Pats have in this draft, they should make sure to come out with another impact guy of Mayo's caliber first of all, then worry about depth later.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I am all for two linebackers early, but I expect one of them to be a backup inside. I don't want to move Thomas inside and leave no experience outside. Besides, Thomas is a fine OLB.

At some point Thomas has to move inside. In 2008 I did not see one game where he looked as quick off the edge as he did in the SB. It's hard to be a 270 pound speed guy off the edge. The longer he stays on the outside the more injuries I see him sustaining.
At least on the inside he gets to play downhill on running plays and in coverage he will always have over the top help.

However I think you make a great point about experience on the outside, But hasn't BB backed himself into this corner?

Barwin and Mathews bring exceptional ST ability to the team and they are true OLB's. Cushings is the guy that has played inside and outside and might be better suited for the inside in the long run, but on the outside as a run stopper he sets as hard an edge as we have had in the BB era.

On one of the other sites someone had us taking ReyMal #23, Mathews #34, A Smith next and then Barwin. 3 LBers in the first two rounds.

 

[mayoclinic]

At some point Thomas has to move inside. In 2008 I did not see one game where he looked as quick off the edge as he did in the SB. It's hard to be a 270 pound speed guy off the edge. The longer he stays on the outside the more injuries I see him sustaining.
At least on the inside he gets to play downhill on running plays and in coverage he will always have over the top help.

However I think you make a great point about experience on the outside, But hasn't BB backed himself into this corner?

Barwin and Mathews bring exceptional ST ability to the team and they are true OLB's. Cushings is the guy that has played inside and outside and might be better suited for the inside in the long run, but on the outside as a run stopper he sets as hard an edge as we have had in the BB era.

On one of the other sites someone had us taking ReyMal #23, Mathews #34, A Smith next and then Barwin. 3 LBers in the first two rounds.

Why not substitute Clint Sintim or Larry English for Smith, and make it a four of a kind?

 

[14thDragon]

I think the plan should be even more specific. They should cough up one of their second-round picks -- maybe 47, maybe 59 -- and go up to get Maualuga. Then use 34 to get an OLB.

I do not want to see the team use up a bunch of the draft ammo getting a 2-down linebacker. Maybe I am crazy, but it seemed to my eyes that opposing offenses did not have a lot of success running the ball. Passing the ball was a bit different. So I am not really looking for the team to add a two-down "thumper" with not just one but 2 of the first day picks to get a guy that is not on the field for the money down.

At some point Thomas has to move inside. In 2008 I did not see one game where he looked as quick off the edge as he did in the SB. It's hard to be a 270 pound speed guy off the edge. The longer he stays on the outside the more injuries I see him sustaining.
At least on the inside he gets to play downhill on running plays and in coverage he will always have over the top help.

I disagree, Thomas's probowl season was as an outside pass rushing LB. That is what he was signed to be, an elite Outside Talent. I want to see him live up to that bill of sale.

 

[mgteich]

OLB is a mess. Yes, I think we might draft someone to play ILB (Maualuga) and two for the outside (Matthews and Barwin). We've carried 10 LB's before, especially when two of them play special teams as well as Banta-Cain and Woods. In fact, we have carried two LB/STers for many years. The fact that they can actually play the position is a major plus.

Also, we have often carried a developmental player or two who can be at any position. Barwin or Crable could those players. Wouldn't we be OK at OLB if we had Thomas, Woods, TBC and Matthews getting all the 2009 reps? Wouldn't this help prospects at OLB for 2010 and beyond? Did you all have Banta-Cain and Woods as future OLB starters? Of course not. Thomas won't last forever at OLB. Perhaps having three young OLB's and Thomas is a good idea, with Banta-Cain and Woods to help out this year.

Ignoring the sexy pick of an OT at 23, I think that picking the three linebackers above and a top safety is just fine for Day One. This is even more reasonable if Wright is re-signed.

If Crable and Barwin can develop quickly and take reps away from Woods and Bant-Cain this year, so much the better. But we wouldn't need to count on it.

WOULD THIS REALLY BE SO BAD FOR 2009 AND FOR THE FUTURE?
OLB/ST Thomas, Woods, Matthews, Banta-Cain
ILB Mayo, Maualuga, Bruschi, Guyton
developmental: Crable, Barwin

At some point Thomas has to move inside. In 2008 I did not see one game where he looked as quick off the edge as he did in the SB. It's hard to be a 270 pound speed guy off the edge. The longer he stays on the outside the more injuries I see him sustaining.
At least on the inside he gets to play downhill on running plays and in coverage he will always have over the top help.

However I think you make a great point about experience on the outside, But hasn't BB backed himself into this corner?

Barwin and Mathews bring exceptional ST ability to the team and they are true OLB's. Cushings is the guy that has played inside and outside and might be better suited for the inside in the long run, but on the outside as a run stopper he sets as hard an edge as we have had in the BB era.

On one of the other sites someone had us taking ReyMal #23, Mathews #34, A Smith next and then Barwin. 3 LBers in the first two rounds.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

I second the motion!

I also favor the idea of moving up into the middle of the first round by trading pick # 23 and a second rounder (or multiple later rounders). It has been pointed out by several Patsfans posters - the talent level seems (for us amateurs) pretty equal from roughly pick 20 - 50. So why not move up and get a real difference maker (hopefully a deja vu experience with a Mayo clone DROY) instead of (just) a later first round dependable starter?

Looking at potential draft (trade) partners - of course there is Denver sitting at pick # 12 and they would seem to need alot of new talent (meaning picks) especially on the defensive side. Our #23 (760 points) + # 47 (430) is pretty close to equal pick # 13 point value (1200).

But what really SCREAMS out as a first round trade partner is (once again) N'awlins at pick # 14. Still should be some real fantastic defensive players available at that pick. Why would they trade down - you are begging to know? After Saints pick #14, they don't pick again until # 112 (mid-3rd round)! Saints still have many needs on defense to compete in a tough division, it looks logical that they would be willing to move down 9 spots and pick up a second rounder which they gave up for J. Shockey. Furthermore, after 2 third round picks - the 'Aints don't even have any 4th or 5th round picks! So maybe even trading them our lowest 2nd rounder pick # 58 (320) and # 23 (760) and our 6th rounder 186 (18) would basically equal pick # 14 (1100). And we would still keep our two 2nd rounders at (#34 and # 47).

Normally I don't really care to 'play math' all night long with all the possible permutations of possible draft trades, but the need of the Saints to get more picks is just screaming for a trade down in the first round. And I think they were happy with trading with NE last year (getting Ellis at # 7). Contract money for the 14th pick is not outrageous. Furthermore, looking at the top 10picks (many mocks) - there appear to be a fair amount of OFFENSIVE players to be taken (3 - 4 OT's, 1-2 QB's, 1 WR Crabtree). On the defensive side probably gone by pic # 14 is certainly Curry (LB), possibly Jenkins (CB), and 1-2 DE's gone. Basically Pats at #14 could have their choice of almost any ILB or OLB or the 2nd best CB (if Jenkins gone) or one of top 2-3 best DE conversion to OLB prospects.

Book it Danno!

P.S. Would even be great to move to spot # 14 to leapfrog SD at pick #16 /Jets at # 17.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, we could trade up, use a second, and pick before the jets who are not likely to make any difference to who we pick.

Please list who you would trade a 2nd to move-up for from 23? We could use our tradeable third to move up a bit. If Belichick see a need he will trade up, but I suspect he won't. I am much more interested in moving up from 34.

I second the motion!

I also favor the idea of moving up into the middle of the first round by trading pick # 23 and a second rounder (or multiple later rounders). It has been pointed out by several Patsfans posters - the talent level seems (for us amateurs) pretty equal from roughly pick 20 - 50. So why not move up and get a real difference maker (hopefully a deja vu experience with a Mayo clone DROY) instead of (just) a later first round dependable starter?

Looking at potential draft (trade) partners - of course there is Denver sitting at pick # 12 and they would seem to need alot of new talent (meaning picks) especially on the defensive side. Our #23 (760 points) + # 47 (430) is pretty close to equal pick # 13 point value (1200).

But what really SCREAMS out as a first round trade partner is (once again) N'awlins at pick # 14. Still should be some real fantastic defensive players available at that pick. Why would they trade down - you are begging to know? After Saints pick #14, they don't pick again until # 112 (mid-3rd round)! Saints still have many needs on defense to compete in a tough division, it looks logical that they would be willing to move down 9 spots and pick up a second rounder which they gave up for J. Shockey. Furthermore, after 2 third round picks - the 'Aints don't even have any 4th or 5th round picks! So maybe even trading them our lowest 2nd rounder pick # 58 (320) and # 23 (760) and our 6th rounder 186 (18) would basically equal pick # 14 (1100). And we would still keep our two 2nd rounders at (#34 and # 47).

Normally I don't really care to 'play math' all night long with all the possible permutations of possible draft trades, but the need of the Saints to get more picks is just screaming for a trade down in the first round. And I think they were happy with trading with NE last year (getting Ellis at # 7). Contract money for the 14th pick is not outrageous. Furthermore, looking at the top 10picks (many mocks) - there appear to be a fair amount of OFFENSIVE players to be taken (3 - 4 OT's, 1-2 QB's, 1 WR Crabtree). On the defensive side probably gone by pic # 14 is certainly Curry (LB), possibly Jenkins (CB), and 1-2 DE's gone. Basically Pats at #14 could have their choice of almost any ILB or OLB or the 2nd best CB (if Jenkins gone) or one of top 2-3 best DE conversion to OLB prospects.

Book it Danno!

P.S. Would even be great to move to spot # 14 to leapfrog SD at pick #16 /Jets at # 17.