Welcome to PatsFans.com

Don Banks agrees with the haters

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by TheGodInAGreyHoodie, Aug 26, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/08/26/backups/1.html

    30. New England: Matt Gutierrez -- Our sense is that Matt Cassel has played his way off the roster with his dreadful preseason, and that Gutierrez would be the Patriots backup if the season opened today. But don't discount the possibility that a late-August trade or signing could bring a Damon Huard (or someone of his type) into the fold, giving New England a little more of a comfort zone should Brady's sore foot continue to be an issue.
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    I don't think even the kool aid drinkers think we have a good backup QB.
  3. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,772
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    Don Banks isn't agreeing with the haters, Don Banks has watched Casell's p!ss poor play.
  4. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    He is not exactly oozing with complements regarding Matt Gutierrez either.
  5. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Don is just falling into the mediot trap. They all feel they have to comment on situations they may know nothing of and therefore follow the lemmings (hense the comment he gets the sense...).

    I guess it's no big deal that the Colts are 1-3 in the preseason without Manning and their million dollar backup Sorgi has yet to lead Peyton's awesome weapons into an endzone...
  6. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    He has Sorgi rated as one of the worst back-ups in the league as well.
  7. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Messages:
    5,758
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0


    So should he just have left that space for the comments blank? Would that have made you happy?
  8. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,360
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +59 / 1 / -0

    Is anyone shocked about this? Matt Cassel has stunk this entire preseason. Even throwing to Moss and Welker, he has made bad throws and poor decisions. Gutierrez did well against the 2nd and 3rd strings of the Eagles last week, but has he proven he is a legitimate #2 QB yet.

    Personally, I agree with Banks. Cassel is done. He hasn't done anything but make poor decisions and throw INTs without any TDs for two years. Gutierrez has the potential to be a very good #2 QB, but I don't think he is there yet.

    I know I was mocked earlier in the preseason for this, but I do think there is a realistic chance that the Pats cut Cassel, add a veteran QB, and carry 4 QBs. The only way in this scenario they don't carry 4 QBs is if they IR O'Connell. IRing Gutierrez would be counter productive because he would have to either step up as the #2 QB by next preseason or his experiment would have to end.
  9. Chevy

    Chevy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Gutierrez is a third stringer that rates #2 only by comparison. While he may blossom into a bonafide #2 (or even a starter if we're very lucky), as of right now he's way out of his league if he has to start.

    As to the write-up by Banks .... if it offends you, then you must want to be offended.
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    But he hasn't pre-emptively replaced him with Eli's former tub of goo backup or the rookie, so I guess he doesn't think it's as big an issue in Indy...

    I just think the microscope this team operates under magnifies everything here beyond all reason. It's not just a bone bruise keeping Tommy off the field this pre season - it's fear of something worse transpiring if he trys to make plays behind a dysfunctional patchwork OL facing 4 tough defenses including 3 who gave us fits last season at full strength.

    But the easy out attitude seems to be let's not even go there...let's just eviscerate the backup so many here love to hate because Bill drafted him even though he never started in college...
  11. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,677
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Many forum members agree that the Pats backup quarterbacks are

    suspect. Matt Cassell looked promising at one time but has

    leveled off. Matt Gutierrez is an unknown quantity. Kevin O'Connell

    is a rookie.
  12. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,360
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +59 / 1 / -0

    Gutierrez has a lot of potential, but what has he done to inspire confidence that he is a good #2 QB at this point? Lighting it up against a lot of guys who won't be in the NFL in a week won't cut it.

    I have high hopes that Gutierrez could become a solid #2 QB, but I am think it won't happen until next season.
  13. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,763
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    I just do not feel 3 games in 11 days was conducive to a "normal" pre-season performance.

    What exactly changed from last year when we all thought we did have a capapble back up??

    The usual "all important" third game cam 5 days after the second game.

    I did not see the usual starting offensive line, did anyone??

    I saw other teams game planning against our vanilla "O" and having success, they blitzed and stunted and we were not exactly running the plays that would succeed against these packages and defenses at all.

    Do the Cassell haters think he had a full game plan and was surrounded by the best OL, RB's & WR's at all times so as to take advantage of what the offense is capable of doing.

    Many player evaluations were going on - Ventrone & SLater experiments, "O" lineman tryouts, blitz pick ups by new additions and rookies (Jordan & Ben Jarvis Ellis Green the 3rd).

    I maintain Cassell is no where near as bad as he has appeared and remember, he finally got experience against the other teams 1's playing with not quite his own 1's.

    Put him in there when it counts and at worst he will be serviceable and will keep the ship upright until the Captain returns.

    Trust what you see from BB & SP - if they jump off of his train, I will be right there. I dont see it happening.
  14. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,677
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    We saw Matt Cassell perform last year against a mediocre Miami team.

    Was his performance satisfactory?
  15. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0


    That about sums it up for me, too. I noticed in a piece by Karen Guregian today that Cassel's primary test target in the first two tilts finally owned up to not being ready to contribute until the tail end of week 3 against second teamers. I gather the honesty is a product of all the love he received for his Randy impersonation against the burger flippers...

    "Jackson admitted to being nervous in the preseason opener against the Baltimore Ravens, in which he and Matt Cassel had some problems communicating. Jackson, who played with the starting unit, looked completely out of sorts in that game. Whether it was running bad routes, dropping balls or slipping on the field, it wasn’t a good game.

    It didn’t get much better against Tampa Bay..."


    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...receiver_shows_spark/srvc=patriots&position=2
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,360
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +59 / 1 / -0

    I have given up on Cassel, but it isn't based purely on this preseason. Since the preseason of 2006, the guy has thrown 5 INTs (should have been 6 on Friday) and 0 TDs except the TD pass to Jason Taylor. You can make excused for him all you want, but every #2 QB is in a similiar position as Cassel and few have performed as poorly in a two year stretch.

    He isn't as bad as he played in the first game this preseason, but I think the last two game may be exactly what he is - a marginal #2 QB in my eyes. His time is up.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2008
  17. primetime

    primetime Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 2 / -3

    Stop acting like you're being martyred when someone writes something bad about the Patriots. Cassel sucks. I know it, Banks knows it, and deep down you know it too. He's never looked particularly good and this year he looks plain awful. This isn't some kind of slap in the face to the Patriots organization. Banks is one of the few national sportswriters on good terms with the Patriots, and he's writing about football, not Spygate or Belichick's personality or anything else.

    Of course, backup QBs have never mattered for the Patriots or Colts because Brady and Manning have never been hurt. But neither team has an exactly ideal situation behind their superstar. At least Jim Sorgi played in college.
  18. Hawg 73

    Hawg 73 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Why is anyone surprised that a guy who didn't even play in college sucks as an NFL QB? They took a chance and in hindsight it didn't work out. Bad decision. Move on.
  19. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,329
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    There is no way these three things happen, so I must mock you yet again, sir. There is a chance for one of those three to occur. It is extremely unlikely that ANY two of them will happen. As for all three as you state, Mock Mock.

    Mock mock.

    Mock mock. IRing Gute is not only NOT counterproductive, it is irrelevant to his status next year. Whether IRed or not, he would still have to beat out O'Connell for #2 next year, and it would NOT have to occur by preseason. It could happen DURING preseason, even as late as Game 3 of the preseason. (Not that I am saying it will happen - it won't. O'Connell will win #2 next year is my guess).

    And anyway, even if he didn't beat out O'Connell there is no reason to say his "experiment" is over. He could beat out whoever the Pats draft next year for #3 spot.

    NOTE: These are gentle mocks, and should the Pats cut Cassel, add a vet QB and carry four QBs, I will self-mock.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2008
  20. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,763
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    He looked pretty good to me VS Miami when he played a full game against them a few years ago.

    Of course that was a full game and he obviously forgot everything he did not know back then.

    I would simply like to withold evaluation until he plays in a real game, with a real game plan and real players....not dumb pre-season football.

    Is there a problem with trusting whetever judgement and decison the HC makes?? If BB & SP feel MC is a capable back up - that is good enough for me. I think they KNOW.
  21. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,329
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    Are you referring to Antonio Gates or Stephen Neal? Or Willie Gault?
  22. primetime

    primetime Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 2 / -3

    None of which are even remotely the same situation.

    Unlike those guys, Cassel played in college. He just didn't play.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2008
  23. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Bill talked a lot today in his PC about how they make decisions here based on a body of work that includes daily and sometimes multiple daily film review of performances in every practice - as well as what most of the geniuses here think they see on 4 pre season games if they even got to watch them...



    I don't think Cassel is one of the best backup prospects in the league, but I'm not convinced he isn't the best backup prospect on our roster. And I'm also not convinced based on his track record with veterans that BB is remotely comfortable bringing in somebody else's cutdown to take a flyer at that position at the 11th hour. There are lots of guys who were mentioned here over the course of the preseason who were readily available had he wanted to even kick their tires. A few remain available on the eve of the season, and as far as I know he hasn't even sniffed 'em... Maybe that just means BB's a moron, but I really doubt that.
  24. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,112
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    Re "the haters":

    There are plenty of us who loved the potential we saw from Cassel early on, and have become progressively concerned as he hasn't shown signs of realizing it. That's not carrying a hater grudge, it's just what we see.

    We understand that the cast around Cassel has done him no favors. We understand that the o-line has been porous. We understand that the Patriots don't gameplan in exhibition games. We understand. We just don't accept that those circumstances make it impossible or inappropriate to look at the QB's performance.

    At some point, you need more than excuses why looking bad isn't his fault; you need positive evidence that he's growing into an NFL quarterback, or that he's capable of throwing outside when the defense takes away the middle. I'm 100% open to persuasion if somebody can give me positives to look at, rather than just excuses for negatives.
  25. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Well, I guess the bottom line then is if Bill decides to keep him you may have to assume that the evidence exists on tape you as a fan or the media simply don't have access to that is being reviewed by personnel who actually know what each players performance and responsibility was intended to have been and how or if that impacted the overall performance. And if he doesn't that will be a pretty clear indication it did not.
  26. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,763
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    OK, you presented a better case than I did for what we think we have seen. You presented facts not excuses.

    Given everything Cassell has faced and looking at his numbers, of course their is room for improvement, there always is, but it is nowhere near as bad as it seems, not by a longshot.

    I do not agree with your conclusion, even Tom Brady would have had serious problems shining within this set of circumstances.
  27. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,329
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    The quoted comment was:

    This could be applied to Neal, Gates, Gault, etc.

    Reading with comprehension can be a wonderful thing. You should consider trying it.

    Start with Post #21.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2008
  28. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,329
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    Solid logic!
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2008
  29. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,112
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    Can't argue with that! But just waiting until final cuts makes for a pretty quiet board. :)
  30. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0


    Just like he did in the Superbowl... Though as I recall there were some here after that debaucle who wanted to point fingers at the QB, the OC, Ellis Hobbs... anywhere but at the Metaphors. And that was just with Neal out.

    For any team it all starts (or ends) in the trenches at the LOS. When they are all healthy and playing reasonably well, Brady makes this OL look better than it truly is. When it falls apart or struggles due to injuries, even Brady has a hard time compensating - and he's a first ballot HOF'er...

    I really don't know what some people expect... perhaps beyond perfection from every player who sets foot on the field here. That's not realistic, let alone for any guy who gets limited regular season snaps over the course of 2-3 career because he's being asked to "play" behind a guy who almost never sits.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page