Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

[Joker]

and that PROVES BB can't draft. He needs hundreds of these articles to create a false front of drafting success. Everyone KNOWS he sucks at it. C'mon...get with the program...BB bad cuz he can't draft...if you think not you must be daft...bor juss..juss juss juss...sis boom BAH!

 

[Deus Irae]

and that PROVES BB can't draft. He needs hundreds of these articles to create a false front of drafting success. Everyone KNOWS he sucks at it. C'mon...get with the program...BB bad cuz he can't draft...if you think not you must be daft...bor juss..juss juss juss...sis boom BAH!

We actually had a reasonable discussion on this topic earlier in the offseason.

BB has proven that he can draft very well. BB has also proven that he can draft terribly. The same is true of BB's work with signing free agents, and with trades. This is to be expected in the business. He did some great things from 2001-2005. He did some terrible things from 2006-2009. He's been back on the upswing since then.

Nothing there really excludes one point of view or another, save the extremes of "Can't draft at all" and "It's BB, so nobody could have chosen better".

 

[Joker]

what Borges had to say about the tweets this week was beyond the valley of the criminally insane...and yet he has his adherents that lap it up like Alpo in the can.

The whole sports universe has undergone a tremendous morph from what we took as gospel in the 70's and 80's. Communication advances ironically seem to lead to a greater lack of basic understanding.

 

[SB39]

I think the perception of Belichick as a drafter is he tends not to have many big draft-day splashes, which is certainly the result of the fact that the Patriots tend not to have their pick until the mid to late 20's (or later) as well as their propensity to trade down.

However, facts are facts. He does a great job.

 

[QB12]

I think the perception of Belichick as a drafter is he tends not to have many big draft-day splashes, which is certainly the result of the fact that the Patriots tend not to have their pick until the mid to late 20's (or later) as well as their propensity to trade down.

However, facts are facts. He does a great job.

And here I thought this thread was about Andre Johnson. Pfff.

 

[Danger Zone]

And here I thought this thread was about Andre Johnson. Pfff.

I tried to conclude my 3 post rant with something new on Andre (to help rerail) but there was nothing.. nothing.

I hate the offseason.

 

[Ivan]

You're the expert on shoving arguments constantly down other people's throats. I'll acquiesce to your ability to detect it in others.

The funny thing being. There wasnt a single homer in this thread that was doing anything of the kind.

Fortunately for us Deus is one of the few clear headed thinkers on this board, almost all of us are just kool aid drinking homers who can't see through our biases to the real truth at hand, so he is here to divine it for us. Don't believe me, just ask him, he will put his modesty aside for just a momemt and make cleat just how superior his intellect is. Very few people are as smart and clear headed and we are so fortunate to have him and a few others to point out how wrong Belichick so often is and what a bad job he does, if they were running this team it would be far more successful.

 

[OhExaulted1]

And here I thought this thread was about Andre Johnson. Pfff.

I think we have a better shot at getting Andre 3000 than Andre Johnson at this point. Just sayin'.

 

[Efstratios]

I think we have a better shot at getting Andre 3000 than Andre Johnson at this point. Just sayin'.

I won't try to fight the feeling that Andre 3000 wouldn't be a optimal pass catcher, because the thought alone is killing me right now .

 

[OhExaulted1]

We actually had a reasonable discussion on this topic earlier in the offseason.

BB has proven that he can draft very well. BB has also proven that he can draft terribly. The same is true of BB's work with signing free agents, and with trades. This is to be expected in the business. He did some great things from 2001-2005. He did some terrible things from 2006-2009. He's been back on the upswing since then.

Nothing there really excludes one point of view or another, save the extremes of "Can't draft at all" and "It's BB, so nobody could have chosen better".

Actually, he did some pretty kick-ass things from '06-'09. Randy Moss for a 4th? Really? Signing Welker away from the Fish? Plenty of swings and misses for sure but Gostowski, Mayo, Slater, Vollmer, Edelman ('07 draft was a bust, ironically). That's not even counting who BB didn't give out crazy contracts to.

I agree with you Deus. You just can't argue with 9+ wins for 13 straight years. The formula works.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually, he did some pretty kick-ass things from '06-'09. Randy Moss for a 4th? Really? Signing Welker away from the Fish? Plenty of swings and misses for sure but Gostowski, Mayo, Slater, Vollmer, Edelman ('07 draft was a bust, ironically). That's not even counting who BB didn't give out crazy contracts to.

I agree with you Deus. You just can't argue with 9+ wins for 13 straight years. The formula works.

I didn't say he went 0-for-4 seasons from 00-2009, just as I didn't say that he was perfect from 2001-2005 or 2010-2014. Hell, I still think the Patriots made the best use of their 2007 draft picks of any team in the league, for precisely what you're pointing out (Welker/Moss). Even in bad times, good things can happen. But, in general:

The formula that works is Tom Brady at QB. The year before Brady took over, the formula worked to the tune of a 5 win season. The year Brady was out, the formula worked to the tune of 5 losses more than the previous year and a failure to make the playoffs.

You can argue with 9+ wins for 13 straight years all day long. Just ask the Colts about the difference between having Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, and having Curtis Painter.

In the modern game, an elite QB is the ultimate advantage. And, fortunately for us, the game's best coach has been blessed with the game's best QB for more than a decade.

 

[Ivan]

The formula that works is Tom Brady at QB. The year before Brady took over, the formula worked to the tune of a 5 win season. The year Brady was out, the formula worked to the tune of 5 losses more than the previous year.

.

Typical Deus, disingenuous as it gets, the Patriots went 11-5 with a QB who had not played full time since high school and he tries to use their 16 win regular season from the year before as evidence that Belichick failed with that team. What it really shows is how desperate deus is to try and make a point really really lame.

 

[rochrist]

what Borges had to say about the tweets this week was beyond the valley of the criminally insane...and yet he has his adherents that lap it up like Alpo in the can.

The whole sports universe has undergone a tremendous morph from what we took as gospel in the 70's and 80's. Communication advances ironically seem to lead to a greater lack of basic understanding.

Last night Felger 'scientifically' calculated that this had to represent at /least/ 800 tweets. Maz was very excited.

 

[rochrist]

I won't try to fight the feeling that Andre 3000 wouldn't be a optimal pass catcher, because the thought alone is killing me right now .

He does look a bit like Deon.

 

[Danger Zone]

I didn't say he went 0-for-4 seasons from 00-2009, just as I didn't say that he was perfect from 2001-2005 or 2010-2014. Hell, I still think the Patriots made the best use of their 2007 draft picks of any team in the league, for precisely what you're pointing out (Welker/Moss). Even in bad times, good things can happen. But, in general:

The formula that works is Tom Brady at QB. The year before Brady took over, the formula worked to the tune of a 5 win season. The year Brady was out, the formula worked to the tune of 5 losses more than the previous year and a failure to make the playoffs.

You can argue with 9+ wins for 13 straight years all day long. Just ask the Colts about the difference between having Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, and having Curtis Painter.

In the modern game, an elite QB is the ultimate advantage. And, fortunately for us, the game's best coach has been blessed with the game's best QB for more than a decade.

You can always tell who the hater hates more based on the over-used Cassel Argument ™

Dont like Brady? Cassel's success in 2007 is the proof you need that the Patriot's win because of Belichick not Brady.

And I guess if you dont like Belichick then Cassel's failure in 2008 is all the proof you need that the Patriot's win because of Brady.

 

[OhExaulted1]

The formula that works is Tom Brady at QB. The year before Brady took over, the formula worked to the tune of a 5 win season. The year Brady was out, the formula worked to the tune of 5 losses more than the previous year and a failure to make the playoffs.

You can argue with 9+ wins for 13 straight years all day long. Just ask the Colts about the difference between having Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, and having Curtis Painter.

I agree with you except to the 5 win BB season in his 1st year. Drew was pretty goddamn good and in fact brought me back as a PatsFan in the 90's. I went to his Patriot HOF induction in (Along with Jon Morris) 2011. Kraft and Drew made this team relevent, then Tom and Bill came along and history was made, but never overlook Drew's role in this dynasty. Tom had to push himself because this guy was ahead of him and that good.

 

[Ivan]

You can argue with 9+ wins for 13 straight years all day long. Just ask the Colts about the difference between having Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, and having Curtis Painter.

.

I think it is amazing that the Colts went 11-5 with Curtis Painter and still got Andrew Luck...........

 

[Danger Zone]

I think it is amazing that the Colts went 11-5 with Curtis Painter and still got Andrew Luck...........

How badly the Colts did with Manning is a great example of bad GMing.

 

[AzPatsFan]

It's difficult to argue with the horrible draft classes of the '06 to '09 time period, that's for sure. I'm guessing that we may have been able to have won another title with just a couple/few players who would've contributed. Definitely a dry spell period for sure.

While T.Wilson was certainly a questionable selection at the time which set us back, I'm guessing there was something that really jumped out to Belichick in a positive way. It's a shame that he hasn't yet been able to get it together, particularly after a mediocre enough rookie season that some him take advantage of some opportunistic situations. Unfortunately, it seems as though you can't teach core smarts, and a guy like Wilson may be a fine example of that.

I still have hope that he can pull it together and contribute something higher than his 1.6 snap percentage of last season, but I doubt you'll find many of us who are feeling very optimistic about the chances.

I agree, those drafts were terrible. The draft picks of those years used for the likes of Wes Welker, Randy Moss and Adalius Thomas were all major disappointments. Guys who never did a damn thing in a Pats uniform.

Why none have even been selected to the Canton Hall of Fame; and only two have even the prospect of doing so.

Total terrible drafts.

/sarc off

 

[Joker]

eff Welker...he holds onto that pass we have FOUR bowl wins in a decade and no one is talking about this crap.