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Does being under supernatural control exonerate Eve of any sin?

Discussion in 'Religion and Lighthearted Discussion' started by Greatest I am, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Practice Squad Player

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    Does being under supernatural control exonerate Eve of any sin?

    Eve was unjustly punished because she was under supernatural control in a set of circumstances that God himself set up by putting Satan in Eden.

    God put Satan in Eden to insure that Eve ate and gave him the power to deceive Eve. She could not resist God's power directed through Satan and thus Eve had no choice but to eat of the tree of knowledge. She, like the snake, were under supernatural control and thus innocent of any wrong-doing.

    Eve fails the criteria of mens rea, Latin for evil intent, a fundamental requirement of secular and biblical law, and thus Eve was innocent of any wrong-doing.

    No human judge in his right mind would have judged A & E the way God did as God set the conditions that insured that A & E also died from neglect and the locking away of the tree of life. That was murder.

    Does being under supernatural control exonerate Eve of any sin?

    Did Eve have a free will while under supernatural control?

    Regards
    DL
     
  2. oldrover

    oldrover Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    It is Adam, not Eve, whose actions resulted in the fall of man. And neither were under supernatural control... in fact, both were acting in explicit opposition to God's express commands.

    Eve ate the apple, then gave it to Adam, who also ate. God called out Adam, and made pronouncements about the serpent, Eve, AND Adam... Adam's being the most consequential. The result of his sin was death for us all. Christ changed all that. I've quoted below:

    _____________

    When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

    8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

    10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

    11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

    12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

    13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

    The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

    14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

    “Cursed are you above all livestock
    and all wild animals!
    You will crawl on your belly
    and you will eat dust
    all the days of your life.
    15 And I will put enmity
    between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and hers;
    he will crush[j] your head,
    and you will strike his heel.”

    16 To the woman he said,

    “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
    with painful labor you will give birth to children.
    Your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you.”

    17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

    “Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat food from it
    all the days of your life.
    18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
    and you will eat the plants of the field.
    19 By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
    for dust you are
    and to dust you will return.”

    20 Adam[k] named his wife Eve,[l] because she would become the mother of all the living.

    21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[m] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  3. SalemPats

    SalemPats 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    This is a great question. The answer is simple, this story allegedly happened 6,000 years ago when the world was created. We know that the world is much older and there is no way that this is true.

    So the answer is easy, this story was made up and in fact ridiculously stupid.
     
  4. oldrover

    oldrover Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    You make some incorrect assumptions.

    First, the church fathers have always stated the accounting of creation in Genesis is NOT to be taken literally. That means a day back then could be a lot longer than 24 hours.

    Second, there are plenty of ridiculously stupid stories every day that are true. So your logic is faulty. You can't say it's not true. You have no proof it's not true. You can only say you BELIEVE it's not true. Which, okay, fine.
     
  5. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Practice Squad Player

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    So why then did God put Satan in Eden if he was not to play a role using his God given powers?

    Regards
    DL
     
  6. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Practice Squad Player

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    I agree as it pertains to the way Christianity has portrayed it. The original Jewish say Eden not as our fall but as our elevation.

    The Jewish way makes sense. The Christian way does not as the Christian intent and what has transpired was that the myth should be used to deny women equality. It has worked well.

    Women Part 1 - YouTube

    Regards
    DL
     
  7. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Practice Squad Player

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    Why not 23 hours?

    You are right about most church hierarchies saying that scriptures should net be read literally but you do read some of the bible literally if you are to end with a belief in Jesus.

    How do you guess which scripture to read literally and which not to?

    Guess work. Right?

    Literal readers like you end up as idol worshipping your Godinabook. Not a good position says Jesus.

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. oldrover

    oldrover Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    God didn't put Satan anywhere. Satan is a fallen angel... that is, an angel who decided to no longer follow God, but himself, and oppose God.
     
  9. oldrover

    oldrover Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Not guess work. St. Jerome and St. Ignatius and St. Augustine and other church fathers far smarter than I am arrived at the analysis of Genesis using intellect and logic. In other words, they thought... THEN they wrote. You should try it. LMAO!!! :D

    And I just told you I'm NOT a literal reader of the entire Bible. Furthermore, Scriptures are a big part of the Faith, but so is the Church, and sacred tradition. "God in a book" ain't me, quite obviously, so once again you prove your lack of ability to read or comprehend. Or maybe you just forgot your meds. LOL
     
  10. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Practice Squad Player

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    Thanks for ignoring my question.

    Is that how your justify your theology? By the same deception that Satan uses? If not go give a reasoned honest answer.

    Regards
    DL
     
  11. SalemPats

    SalemPats 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Do you ever read the bible and think these stories are wackier than those written by 2nd graders. Why do i believe in something where many of the stories are so fantastical they can't be true, some are contrary to basic science and others are basically a product of an uneducated time period (that contain many paganisitic beliefs). Why bother with this when there is so much else to do.
     
  12. Boogs

    Boogs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Like in the news today, when a demon possessed 9 year old walks backwards up a wall? Not only that, it was in the ER were the nurses witnessed it. Some things happen and they have no scientific explanation. But some things in the Bible might offer explanation for.
     
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    A thread about someone who never existed ... brilliant.

    The only thing that fictional story gets right is that women have been cutting off their nose to spite their face to piss off the man of her choice.
     
  14. oldrover

    oldrover Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Thanks for being both condescending AND an idiot. LOL... I did answer your question, Einstein. Eve was NOT under supernatural control. She did what she did out of free will. As did Adam. As do we all, every day.

    And I don't have to justify the existence of a God. It is self-evident in the creation all around us.
     
  15. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Practice Squad Player

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    Can you explain from scriptures how snakes and donkeys can talk when there are no snake or donkey schools to teach them?

    Regards
    DL
     
  16. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Practice Squad Player

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    And why not? Men have been putting the blame on women for our faults and mistakes forever.

    Yep. There are not any good reasons for discrediting this myth.

    Women Part 1 - YouTube

    Regards
    DL
     
  17. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Practice Squad Player

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    Self-evident to fools.

    Your creator is a sinner for creating as he does.

    (7) If There is a Painting... - YouTube

    So to you, Satan and the snake were just extras for the myth and do not really do anything or have any impact.

    Put your head back in the sand and keep discriminating against women.

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. Boogs

    Boogs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Your avatar is very fitting for you. You arrogantly mock God like it's your occupation. It's your right to do that if you wish. But unfortunately when you die (and we all die) this will lead to a very bad outcome for you.
     
  19. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Practice Squad Player

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    You show how you believe out of fear you pathetic man.

    You have learned well from your religion and have full blown Stockholm syndrome.

    This Bishop has your church pegged.

    'Hell' as an invention of the church - YouTube

    Leave the bible belt and save yourself.

    My next O P speaks right to you. Have a preview.

    ------------------

    How will you get yourself into heaven?

    On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

    Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

    Christ is Back in Christmas! - YouTube

    I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

    In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

    Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

    If and when you say yes, you become his.

    -----------------------------------

    The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

    ---------------------------------

    It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

    Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

    Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

    Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

    Your cowardly God did not.

    Regards
    DL
     
  20. oldrover

    oldrover Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Hell is not a place, Whacktown. It's eternity without God. You're quite content here to openly disparage Him while He's around... we shall see how content you are when He is not. For your sake, I hope you renew your mind before then.
     

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