Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again

[shmessy]

The Unlikely John Harbaugh to the rescue:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...s-in-new-england-i-chalk-it-up-to-being-cold/

".......
The report didn’t mention that kicking balls are not handled by the home team nor why the Ravens didn’t raise an objection at the time, but Ravens coach John Harbaugh took care of that on Wednesday when he was asked for his thoughts on the kicking balls having less air than they should.

“I chalk it up to being cold,” Harbaugh said, via Jamison Hensley of ESPN.com.

It was 20 degrees at kickoff for the Ravens-Patriots matchup, about 30 degrees cooler than it was last Sunday, and cold air would lead to less pressure inside the ball. Given that and the fact that under-inflated kicking balls would have come from the officials, Harbaugh’s comment should probably be the last word on this angle of the deflated ball story that’s hanging over the league right now.

 

[hambone1818]

Considering there is no real difference between a ball filled to this capacity and a ball filled to that capacity, beyond a simple personal preference, all this story is doing is reminding me of two different things:

1. The American sports masses are idiots and low IQ morons who will consider anything cheating as long as that's what the media refers to it as. It wasn't "cheating" when Rodgers said he liked balls over inflated, because the media didn't add the cheating narrative to it. Now it is cheating because the media did.

While most of what you said is true, the Rodgers situation is different in one very key way: he (and the Packers) overinflate balls prior to submitting them to the refs, hoping they sneak by. What's being alleged here is properly inflated balls when inspected, then deflating them before/during the game. One is gamesmanship, the other is breaking a clear rule.

2. Everybody hates the Patriots.

To call a football one pound of pressure shy of regulation "cheating" is yet another stretch that could only be reached by mindless idiots who cannot think for themselves. It's honestly pathetic and gives me a feeling of contempt for other human beings. It isn't "cheating" until someone on television uses that word while reporting on the fact that the balls were under-inflated.

Nobody can think for themselves and it's absolutely pitiful.

No doubt there's a lot of hate for the Patriots, a LOT. But if they're found to have doctored the footballs after they're weighed by the refs then I don't know how you can classify this as anything other than cheating. They would have violated a clear rule, with knowledge of that violation and clear intent, with an advantage in ability to grip the ball on a wet day as the goal...I'm sorry but that's cheating.

I'm with everyone else hoping like hell this isn't the case and there's some other explanation. And I also do think there's some clear targeting here (or simple sour grapes on the part of Indy) when the Panthers/Vikings game shows clear manipulation of footballs and nothing's done about it. But like it or not, if someone on the Pats sideline doctored footballs after they were inspected by refs that would be cheating, period.

 

[Jackson 2]

I'm fairly sure Walsh never claimed to have walkthrough tapes.

The key was that when asked directly, he never denied it. In other words, it was a tacit admission that he had without stating it.

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

Start watching around the 1:40 mark. Now, we are talking about 10 degree weather, which is not what we were dealing with on Sunday. However, they were also only looking at one hour, and not in rainy weather. It is entirely possible - indeed, perhaps probable - that the balls were measured (if measured at all) several hours before the game started, and the supposedly faulty measurements were taken at halftime.

In short, I think it's entirely reasonable that if the measurements were taken at 72 or 75 degrees indoors several hours before the game, and then measured at 11.0 psi at halftime, that the balls could have deflated from 1.5 psi.

Not saying this is what happened. I have no idea. But that is a very feasible scenario.

51 degrees is not cold enough to deflate the ball by that much air pressure in that time period. I'm not disagreeing that the ball may not have lost pressure going from indoor temp to outdoor, it could have, but I doubt it lost 2 lbs. I have a basketball that's been on my back porch for a couple days now, it's no more deflated than it was before. It's been about in the mid 40s - 55 in temperature in my town.

Really would doubt BB being implicated, in that:

1) The NFL would have to prove the weather was not a factor.

2) The NFL would have to prove that the balls were tampered with, beyond a doubt (e.g. visual evidence).

3) The NFL would have to prove that BB had direct knowledge of the matter. BB, who we know isn't dumb by any means would know to insulate himself in the same way a mob boss insulates himself from a hit by always dealing with a middleman, or dealing with it indirectly, such as telling the equipment manager: "Make sure the balls are the way Tom wants them to be."

4) The big problem, and the big thorn in the NFL's ass is how do you implicate BB or the Patriots without involving the referees (and consequently the NFL, themselves)? If he is implicated, that means they failed to do their job (and so did the NFL), which is to make sure game balls are up to spec at all times through protocol that is hard to mess around with.

1. They probably can't prove weather wasn't a factor, but they are gonna have a hard time convincing someone that it was weather. Either way it's lose/lose.

2. I agree. However, if the "insider" on WEEI was telling the truth about the refs being glued to the ball boy after halftime then the refs are likely gonna sell him out to the commish.

3. I agree.

4. The NFL could argue that the refs couldn't tell the difference in ball pressure with the quickness of the game and then offer a solution to the issue, by bringing up some BS about improving and avoiding this matter by doing pressure checks after every drive or having an official take care of the balls and eliminate ball boys from the league altogether.

Though the Patriots may have been trying to gain an extra advantage (the Colts were clearly at a disadvantage with that QB and defense) by deflating the balls, it is still on the officials to observe the balls and make sure they are up to league standards throughout the game. As much as the refs deal with the balls, they would've known just as much as Brady and twice as likely as a Colts LB that the balls were somewhat deflated. But they allowed Brady to play with his balls anyway.

My new question is, if the Colts had complained about this issue in November, why didn't the NFL investigate the matter then? Is it possible the league allowed this and now that it's exposed to the media and public, the league is now gonna use the Pats as the sacrificial cow? The league should be investigating real issues, like Mike McCarthy's coaching at the end of the Seattle game. It seemed like he was intentionally giving the game to Seattle to attract higher ratings for the SB. Doesn't that go against the league's integrity?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The key was that when asked directly, he never denied it. In other words, it was a tacit admission that he had without stating it.

As I've said before, I call it "Walsh's paradox": if such a tape actually existed, why didn't it come to light?

 

[Fansince77]

To be fair, the rulebook does specify "not limited to". Don't get me wrong, it's 100% obvious that the league couldn't have given less of a **** right up until 3 days ago (see: Aaron Rodgers, the Panthers/Vikings game), but if there's one thing we know about Goodell, it's that he goes nuclear when PR outrage gets out in front of the story.

I probably sound like a pessimist right now, and I guess I am. But I'm starting to feel like it's a foregone conclusion that Goodell's going to throw the book at the Pats Bountygate/Spygate style, because he's a reactionary dipshit like that.

Thats ok, let him, but I will be done with the NFL just like I was in 94 with MLB. They won`t miss my money or devotion, but at least I won`t have to be bothered by BS like this anymore.

 

[Fansince77]

This all boils down to two things.

1) There are petty jealousies within the NFL who can't deal with how much better BB is at winning in the NFL than they are.

2) The media doesn't accept that BB does not show them the deference they demand.

But and yet again, other Teams players and coaches will admit to or also be found guilty of, but no-one will care at all cause its not the Patriots.

 

[Dr Pain]

I am far less concerned about this than I had been. Reasons are:

1) I know that PSI drops with temp. Patriots could have used warm air or warmed the balls to make the 12.5 knowing they would decrease to get to the point Brady likes them and this would be completely legal as it is not forbidden by the rules

Guesses
2) I don't think the reffs probably did a good job looking at them before the game
3) I have read but don't know as fact, that the ball boys are paid by NFL not Patriots so even if they did doi anything it would be an NFL employee
4) I have also read, though do not know myself, that the Patriots use old balls up to 14 years old and who knows how well a 14 year old ball holds air after who knows how many games. If the reffs let it is that is that. This isnt crazy as my own football I toss around is older than that.

I am leaning towards there is not much the NFL can do without a smoking gun. Yes the Patriots will be smeared but this seems like an NFL issue not Patriots.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

The issue isn't whether or not deflating the balls gave any benefit. It's that the Pats MAY have circumvented the rule that prohibits them from tampering with the balls after said balls have been inspected and authorized as in tolerance spec by league officials.

IF the Pats are shown to have done this then they should be penalized. Given their past transgressions and the severity of them as it pertains to fair competition (on the leagues 2nd grandest stage - championship weekend), I would imagine any issued penalty would be very severe.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

When was the last time you ever even heard of this topic being a concern for opposing Teams, Fans? Do they just pull his stuff out of their asssholes? We had to deal with spygate the whole 2 weeks leading up to SB 42 with Chris Berman and the hack Sports network ESPN grabbing on and not letting go the entire year, then miraculously the week before the SB we get Walsh coming forward with something related which he never actually had and clearly it was a distraction, and here we go again, and you know the average dumbass low IQ fan of the other teams already believe the Pats cheat to win, and the Media couldn`t ask for anyhing better, they eat this **** up.

If Goodell doesn`t put a stop to this and I mean within the next couple of days, I am done watching the NFL. Why he would even allow this investigation to happen is beyond me. Sorry, but I am extremely pissed right now. So tired of this horse crap. If one person on the street who knows I am a patriots fans say one word, they better get ready for a face full of blood, not even kidding.

I always found underinflated balls to be harder to handle, but why on earth doesn`t the NFL itself handle all the damn balls anyways? You know damn well, it allows all games to come into question if you can provide your own balls.But as I asked, whens the last time anyone ever voiced a concern over something ike this? Why can`t opposing Teams and fans lose with Grace like the pats do when they lose? This Country has turned into a nation of crybaby whiners.

Ans 11 out of 12 balls? Really? Is that like 4 outa 5 Dentist`s? How big of them, they are saying we used one that was legit.

I'm not too impressed with the NFL's leakomatic investigation. If they are in fact leaks, and not just rumors. The thing is, unless they get a ball attendant, who is apparently payed by the NFL, to confess- this investigation will never be more than a rumor, and mark on the NFL. Surely Goodell could figure this out?

A proper investigation doesn't assume anyone is telling the truth, not even the refs about checking the balls before the game. Whether balls were not at proper inflation at some point after the kickoff leaves open at least two possibilities, that the refs failed to properly check or that a ball attendant was secretly deflating balls in front of national TV. In fact I would argue that since the refs were incapable of noticing during the game, and the ball attendant is visible to thousands the ref is far more likely.

Knowing the impossibility of making any determination through post game measurements I would have thought the NFL would keep it under wraps and send out a team to secretly check the refs, and ball attendants at a game to get an actual determination. Instead, all we'll ever get is maybe the refs checked before, maybe the ball attendant messed with them, maybe the weather lowered them, maybe the play lowered the pressure, maybe, maybe, maybe, rumor, rumor, rumor.

Why make a ****storm if you can't come up with anything definitive? I guess it's just as useful to claim you have something definitive if people believe it. But I doubt they do.

 

[karguy85]

Matt Leinart ‏@MattLeinartQB 54m54 minutes ago
Actually my guy @kurt13warner didn't tamper w the footballs because he wore gloves. Used to irritate me..So correction, almost all QBs! Lo

tim hasselbeckVerified account‏@tthasselbeck
@MattLeinartQB @kurt13warner co-sign

Brady tried gloves for a short time, right? Didn't like them?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

My new question is, if the Colts had complained about this issue in November, why didn't the NFL investigate the matter then? Is it possible the league allowed this and now that it's exposed to the media and public, the league is now gonna use the Pats as the sacrificial cow?

That's actually an interesting thing. Since that game was in IND, how could NE have deflated the balls? IND controls the ballboys there. And it was indoors, so forget about weather effects (though I guess NE could have done a hot-air inflate).

 

[chasa]

Here's an interesting question.

With almost everyone inside the nfl universeally saying things like "this is a non story" "the air in the ball didn't matter" etc INCLUDING colts players, Do you think this might result in some backlash against Indy for dragging is into the public spotlight the week before the superbowl?

This appears to be one of those universal "unwritten rules" that says as long as its not ridiculously under inflated(which it wasn't) who cares, and indy just sort of took a dump. We know Irsay is the leak, you have to think other teams are going to be very careful about some of the stunts indy pulls.

 

[BelichickFan]

Kevin Clark✔ @KevinClarkWSJ
NFL head coaches here at Senior Bowl seem downright offended that people think this deflation stuff is a big deal.
Retweeted by Christopher Price

 

[luuked]

Bingo. This is ******** for us as fans to have to deal with this RIGHT after winning the AFCCG. This is all that will be talked about for 2 weeks leading up to the game, rather than the matchups and strategy

Who stops you from it? I dont care and I cant stand this *****ing and moaning about how the media/BB/Kraft/?? ruined the week for anyone. If you want to talk Seattle, matchups or strategy there are enough threads and articles that deal with that on this very forum.

Nobody is forcing you to keep posting in here. And yet we are way past 1000 posts.

 

[Fansince77]

Nobody can think for themselves and it's absolutely pitiful.

Wecome to the new America.isn`t it lovely?

 

[The Brandon Five]

The issue isn't whether or not deflating the balls gave any benefit. It's that the Pats MAY have circumvented the rule that prohibits them from tampering with the balls after said balls have been inspected and authorized as in tolerance spec by league officials.

IF the Pats are shown to have done this then they should be penalized. Given their past transgressions and the severity of them as it pertains to fair competition (on the leagues 2nd grandest stage - championship weekend), I would imagine any issued penalty would be very severe.

What trangressions? You mean the overblown Cameragate? That's a transgression. Singular.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

While most of what you said is true, the Rodgers situation is different in one very key way: he (and the Packers) overinflate balls prior to submitting them to the refs, hoping they sneak by. What's being alleged here is properly inflated balls when inspected, then deflating them before/during the game. One is gamesmanship, the other is breaking a clear rule.


No doubt there's a lot of hate for the Patriots, a LOT. But if they're found to have doctored the footballs after they're weighed by the refs then I don't know how you can classify this as anything other than cheating. They would have violated a clear rule, with knowledge of that violation and clear intent, with an advantage in ability to grip the ball on a wet day as the goal...I'm sorry but that's cheating.

I'm with everyone else hoping like hell this isn't the case and there's some other explanation. And I also do think there's some clear targeting here (or simple sour grapes on the part of Indy) when the Panthers/Vikings game shows clear manipulation of footballs and nothing's done about it. But like it or not, if someone on the Pats sideline doctored footballs after they were inspected by refs that would be cheating, period.

It wouldn't be cheating if pats inflated in a hot room, to guidelines and then the natural earth changed it. It wouldn't be cheating, because how can you control the earth? The pats never made it cold, snow, rain or anything. Lack of integrity yes, but cheating, no way.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

G.oodsuch a joke at this point. it's obvious that almost every quarterback has done something like this before. It's the NFL and the referees who are going to be in hot water on this. It's a witch hunt by the media and all the teams that the Pats have dominated over the years. Let's just hope the Goodell isnt going to make a example of the pats again. Everybody who doesn't have an agenda and knows the real story is agreeing with this. I've been hanging by a hair with the NFL lately with all the BS we have to deal with. Depending on how this comes out this could be the straw that broke the camel's back

 

[josh24]

Forgive me for the dumb question (English not my native language), but what does PR stand for?!
Public relations? That's the best I could come up with.