Defensive Line

[jmt57]

Andy Hart of Patriots Football Weekly: PFW - Role Call! - DL

Though the Patriots can no longer roll out the no-questions-asked, first-round defensive front of Warren, Wilfork and Richard Seymour, the New England defensive line remains a potential strength of the team.

The biggest question, though, is who can step up and fill Seymour’s vacated right defensive end spot. Two potential answers are actually fellow first-round draft classmates of Seymour’s from 2001 – free agent additions Gerard Warren and Lewis. Both are solid if unspectacular pros. The former has essentially been a full-time starter in his previous NFL stops in Cleveland, Denver and Oakland. The latter is a solid locker room presence and at least a capable on-field contributor. Both would seem to be more suitable every-down options than the now-departed Jarvis Green.

... In conclusion:

It looks like Gerard Warren will get the nod at RDE. He’s a solid vet and I think he’ll be an upgrade over Green and the rest from last fall. That WWW line is a solid starting unit. Brace has talked the talk this spring, but now he must prove it. I have my doubts. Beyond Wright, there’s not a lot to count on with the backups. WWW must stay healthy, in my eyes, or it could be a long year up front. Wilfork is as important as any player on the team not named Brady.

Based on spring practice results, I’m expecting newcomer Gerard Warren to have the inside track to start at right defensive end alongside Wilfork and Ty Warren, with Wright a virtual lock as the proven, versatile backup. The real battle will be for the remaining reserve spots. Lewis most likely makes it, leaving Brace and Pryor as the frontrunners for the final two jobs, in all likelihood. At least one will probably not make the cut, meaning there’s an opening for Richard or one of the rookie/first-year players. Brace got a lot of reps in the spring, meaning the coaches are giving him every chance to succeed, but I wouldn’t feel confident betting on him.

The Patriots are better situated to fill the Richard Seymour void with veterans Gerard Warren and Damione Lewis, which should help. Vince Wilfork and Ty Warren give the team a solid starting group, particularly against the run, and Mike Wright does a nice job getting after the passer in subpackages. It would be a nice bonus if one of the many youngsters develops and contributes in 2010, otherwise this is a thin group.

 

[RayClay]

I see impressive beef on the DL but no speed. Lots of DTs, no DEs.

IMHO.

Lewis is supposed to be fairly quick, if he rotates with Warren. Remember, quick is relative on our line as they're 300lb +. Wright is quick.

 

[jmt57]

Bruce Allen of Patriots Daily profiles all eleven defensive linemen that are in the Pats' training camp.

Positional Previews ? Defensive Line | Patriots Daily

The “big fatties” up front are a hallmark of a Bill Belichick 3-4 defense. Last season for the first time since Vince Wilfork was drafted in 2004, the Patriots front three did not start with Wilfork in the middle with Ty Warren and Richard Seymour beside him. Seymour was traded prior to the season opener to the Oakland Raiders. The Patriots plugged in Mike Wright and Jarvis Green into Seymour’s spot, but neither fared well as a full-time player. For a time it looked like perhaps Wilfork might be gone as well, as his contract ran its course and he approached free agency. In the end, he got his new contract, and the Patriots have their biggest piece in the middle of their defense. This offseason, Green was allowed to leave, signing with the Denver Broncos, and the Patriots added a couple of veteran starters to the DL mix, hoping to avoid some of the issues they faced last season.

This group isn’t as good as it was a couple of seasons ago, but still has to be considered among the top units in the league. With Wilfork and Warren starting to get up there in age, it is imperative to develop younger linemen who can come in a contribute. Ron Brace might be the most important in that category. If he can develop into a guy who can spell Wilfork as well as play an end position, it will be a huge boost. Gerard Warren and Lewis provide some veteran stability and experience, giving the youngsters time to develop.

 

[jmt57]

Ian Rapoport of the Boston Herald with a brief observation from this morning's practice session:

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive What happened at the Patriots training camp? Day 5, Session 1 edition

– DL Ron Brace, again, didn’t practice, running in shorts. Still not sure what’s up there?

 

[jmt57]

Some camp observations from the folks at Patriots Football Weekly:


Sunday AM - Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog Blog Archive From the Hart: Practice 7 observations

–With Wright and Ty Warren out of action, Vince Wilfork was flanked by Gerard Warren (LDE) and Damione Lewis (RDE) during some team work. But those reps quickly shifted when defense went to a nickel package a couple snaps later, with Warren and Lewis going to the sideline. Myron Pryor joined Wilfork up front


Suunday PM - Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog Blog Archive From the Hart: Practice 8 observations

–Wright and Neal rode the exercise bike early in practice, while Brace and Clayton worked on the stair machine. Brace then spent the end of the session riding the bike by himself at the extreme far end of the field.

–Myron Pryor once again lined up next to Vince Wilfork as the two linemen in sub packages.


Monday AM - Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog Blog Archive Quick Kicks: Practice 9 observations

–defensive lineman Ty Warren (was) not seen on the field ... defensive linemen Ron Brace and Mike Wright (left leg sleeve) were on the field working with the rehab staff.

 

[jmt57]

WEEI's Christopher Price profiles Ron Brace.

It Is What It Is Rating the Roster, Training Camp Edition (Part 3)

58. Defensive lineman Ron Brace: By his own admission, Brace wasn’t ready for the NFL last season. The 6-foot-3, 330-pound Brace confessed this spring that his rookie year was a “humbling experience” as he was inactive for seven games and suited up but didn’t play in an eighth. For a guy who was used to starting and contributing — with Boston College, he started 40 of his 49 games — it was a cold dose of reality. But Brace said he’s been listening to veteran Vince Wilfork a lot this season, and talked this spring about the lessons imparted by the Pro Bowler. “My locker was right next to his and he was here in the offseason work program, and I was talking with him,” Brace said of Wilfork. “He was just letting me know there’s always something you need to learn. He was also one of the guys who said, ‘This is the path you need to take if you want to try and make it where you want to go.’”



So if Brace admitted he wasn't ready last year, what's the explanation to the start of this year's training camp?

 

[Ring 6]

WEEI's Christopher Price profiles Ron Brace.

It Is What It Is Rating the Roster, Training Camp Edition (Part 3)

58. Defensive lineman Ron Brace: By his own admission, Brace wasn’t ready for the NFL last season. The 6-foot-3, 330-pound Brace confessed this spring that his rookie year was a “humbling experience” as he was inactive for seven games and suited up but didn’t play in an eighth. For a guy who was used to starting and contributing — with Boston College, he started 40 of his 49 games — it was a cold dose of reality. But Brace said he’s been listening to veteran Vince Wilfork a lot this season, and talked this spring about the lessons imparted by the Pro Bowler. “My locker was right next to his and he was here in the offseason work program, and I was talking with him,” Brace said of Wilfork. “He was just letting me know there’s always something you need to learn. He was also one of the guys who said, ‘This is the path you need to take if you want to try and make it where you want to go.’”



So if Brace admitted he wasn't ready last year, what's the explanation to the start of this year's training camp?

I dont think we have gotten one.

 

[mgteich]

I am concerned about the DL non-participation. Both Warren and Wright have injuries, and Brace can't make it to the field.

At this early point in TC, I am becoming convinced that we should keep G. Warren, Lewis AND Pryor. I know that seven is too many, but I suspect that we won't have seven healthy very often. It may be a struggle to have five healthy and active.

 

[Ring 6]

I am concerned about the DL non-participation. Both Warren and Wright have injuries, and Brace can't make it to the field.

At this early point in TC, I am becoming convinced that we should keep G. Warren, Lewis AND Pryor. I know that seven is too many, but I suspect that we won't have seven healthy very often. It may be a struggle to have five healthy and active.

Am I wrong in thinking that Warren and Wrights 'injuries' are minor, day to day, and as much rest as injury?
As far as Brace for some reason its a very well kept secret.

 

[mgteich]

They are minor. However, Warren was injured a couple of times last year. It is simply the cumulative effect that concerns me. If Belichick thinks that he has six healthy players out of the top seven when the final cut is made, I'll be fine with having six defensive linemen on the final roster. This also presumes that Brace is able to produce.

Am I wrong in thinking that Warren and Wrights 'injuries' are minor, day to day, and as much rest as injury?
As far as Brace for some reason its a very well kept secret.

 

[Ring 6]

They are minor. However, Warren was injured a couple of times last year. It is simply the cumulative effect that concerns me. If Belichick thinks that he has six healthy players out of the top seven when the final cut is made, I'll be fine with having six defensive linemen on the final roster. This also presumes that Brace is able to produce.

Perhaps you are overreacting to roster decisions based on missing a practice in the first week of camp?
Remember you have listed how irrelevant the 6th DL was last year, and we had a decent amount of games lost to injury last season too.

 

[mgteich]

Perhaps I am indeed overreacting.

Perhaps you are overreacting to roster decisions based on missing a practice in the first week of camp?
Remember you have listed how irrelevant the 6th DL was last year, and we had a decent amount of games lost to injury last season too.

 

[Ring 6]

Perhaps I am indeed overreacting.

Nothing wrong with that, its the order of the day here sometimes.
Just wanted to clarify if you were changing your philosophy about the DL (which I agree with) or just accounting for a different possibility.

 

[mgteich]

I've had no change in philosophy. There is no need for more than six healthy defensive linemen to start the season.

FOUR defensive linemen get almost all the reps; only four were on the field in more than 30% of the defensive reps last year, and there were injuries last year. Pryor played a bit because of injuries and was involved in 27% of the defensive reps as the FIFTH defensive lineman. The SIXTH is for depth and can be at any position. Last year the six was our potential backup at NT, Brace, who was involved in under 6% of the defensive reps.

This year, I expect more of the same. As of now, I see the four "W"'s and Lewis being quite sufficient to carry the load. There is no NEED beyond five, except for depth in case of a couple of injuries. If we have an adequate NT backup, he could play alot if there is only one injury.

Personally, I do not see us keeping Pryor over Lewis. However, Pryor could slip past Brace for the 6th spot, as some have suggested.

My fear is that we will come to the last cut with two or three question marks regarding health or attitude and may need to keep all seven. As I have said, this fear may be unreasonable. I certainly wouldn't want to lose either Warren or Lewis.

Nothing wrong with that, its the order of the day here sometimes.
Just wanted to clarify if you were changing your philosophy about the DL (which I agree with) or just accounting for a different possibility.

 

[jmt57]

Well, this is absolutely pure speculation - but if Brace is unable to get on the field and/or unable to be productive - is he a candidate for IR? I don't see the team giving up on that high a draft pick so early that they would cut him, but I also can see them not wanting to squander a roster spot either - especially when there are so many question marks and unknowns on this year's team.

 

[Ring 6]

I've had no change in philosophy. There is no need for more than six healthy defensive linemen to start the season.

FOUR defensive linemen get almost all the reps; only four were on the field in more than 30% of the defensive reps last year, and there were injuries last year. Pryor played a bit because of injuries and was involved in 27% of the defensive reps as the FIFTH defensive lineman. The SIXTH is for depth and can be at any position. Last year the six was our potential backup at NT, Brace, who was involved in under 6% of the defensive reps.

This year, I expect more of the same. As of now, I see the four "W"'s and Lewis being quite sufficient to carry the load. There is no NEED beyond five, except for depth in case of a couple of injuries. If we have an adequate NT backup, he could play alot if there is only one injury.

Personally, I do not see us keeping Pryor over Lewis. However, Pryor could slip past Brace for the 6th spot, as some have suggested.

My fear is that we will come to the last cut with two or three question marks regarding health or attitude and may need to keep all seven. As I have said, this fear may be unreasonable. I certainly wouldn't want to lose either Warren or Lewis.

Was is your opinion on sub package DTs?
Specifically, do you think Ty Warren will have a big impact if he is used there this season? What do you think of G Warren and Lewis in that role? What about Vince? Ted Washington actually stayed on the field on 3rd down in 2003, and a lot in that SB. Can we use Vince to bullrush and collapse the pocket?

 

[mgteich]

I also like the idea of Vince staying on the field and collapsing the pocket on third down. I don't know if Belichick agrees. With Belichick running the defense, perhaps we'll see it.

I see Wright and Lewis being used alot in sub packages as DT's.

I think that Ty Warren is a very solid player who is wearing down. I think that he would benefit from having fewer reps.

I see G. Warren being almost exclusively at DE.

The big HOWEVER in all this is that I think that we have a great set of five linemen who can played at various positions, depending on situation and health issues. You might ask how can I possible use the word "great" for guys like Wright. Well, I think that we had a great line a couple of years ago and now we have finally replaced Seymour with a combination of Warren and Lewis. Wright should be more effective as a role player, as he used to be. It is not that I think that Warren and Lewis are as good as Seymour, but I do believe that the total DL can be close to a couple of years ago, especially if we have some improvement at ILB. A healthy Mayo should help as well as having McKenzie or Spikes next to Mayo on first down as an upgrade over Guyton.

The bottom line for me is that Wright and Guyton are fine players, but too much was expected of them. They now can be used in their more natural roles.

Was is your opinion on sub package DTs?
Specifically, do you think Ty Warren will have a big impact if he is used there this season? What do you think of G Warren and Lewis in that role? What about Vince? Ted Washington actually stayed on the field on 3rd down in 2003, and a lot in that SB. Can we use Vince to bullrush and collapse the pocket?

 

[Ring 6]

I also like the idea of Vince staying on the field and collapsing the pocket on third down. I don't know if Belichick agrees. With Belichick running the defense, perhaps we'll see it.

I see Wright and Lewis being used alot in sub packages as DT's.

I think that Ty Warren is a very solid player who is wearing down. I think that he would benefit from having fewer reps.

I see G. Warren being almost exclusively at DE.

The big HOWEVER in all this is that I think that we have a great set of five linemen who can played at various positions, depending on situation and health issues. You might ask how can I possible use the word "great" for guys like Wright. Well, I think that we had a great line a couple of years ago and now we have finally replaced Seymour with a combination of Warren and Lewis. Wright should be more effective as a role player, as he used to be. It is not that I think that Warren and Lewis are as good as Seymour, but I do believe that the total DL can be close to a couple of years ago, especially if we have some improvement at ILB. A healthy Mayo should help as well as having McKenzie or Spikes next to Mayo on first down as an upgrade over Guyton.

The bottom line for me is that Wright and Guyton are fine players, but too much was expected of them. They now can be used in their more natural roles.

Thanks for the opinions.

One thing I disagree with is that I don't see Ty Warren as worn down, but as coming off of an injured season. I find it hard to believe at 29 he cant handle a full workload. I think you are mistaking playing hurt with being broken down.

 

[mgteich]

I certainly hope that you are right. If Warren is still in his prime, we are in excellent shape.

Thanks for the opinions.

One thing I disagree with is that I don't see Ty Warren as worn down, but as coming off of an injured season. I find it hard to believe at 29 he cant handle a full workload. I think you are mistaking playing hurt with being broken down.

 

[Ring 6]

Well, this is absolutely pure speculation - but if Brace is unable to get on the field and/or unable to be productive - is he a candidate for IR? I don't see the team giving up on that high a draft pick so early that they would cut him, but I also can see them not wanting to squander a roster spot either - especially when there are so many question marks and unknowns on this year's team.

Always a candidate for IR, and he is probably still PUP eligible.
Hard to forsee what will happen though since we have zero info about why he is sidelined.
There was a comment about cramps. For all we know it could be as minor as an awful case of the flu or some virus that has weakened him and they are keeping him out until he gets over it. Or he could be failing the conditioning run, but I doubt that because those guys gon right to pup. Or he could have an injury we don't know about which could be serious or minor.
We just don't know.
I do have high hopes for him though if this gets straightened out, because we could certainly use what he is supposed to be; a 330 lb run stuffer.