Darius Butler with #23?

[mayoclinic]

Mark my words Raji will not be available @23 this is complete nonsense. Butler @23 not really feelin it either.

Of course the odds that Raji will be available at 23 are quite long. But they're better than they were a few days ago when he seemed a lock top 10 pick. It's unlikely but not inconceivable that he could fall past Denver at #12, which would put him within trading reach.

Besides, it's a nice change of pace from "is Connor Barwin overrated".

 

[upstater1]

From what I understand Butler is a soft tackler and does not like contact. If that is true he would hardly be a guy BB would be interested in.

This is wrong. He's an excellent tackler and he throws his body around. He is not soft AT ALL.

 

[Ungeheuer]

I wouldn't draft B.J. Raji in the first round, no way. And not because I think marijuana is bad. It's just... a guy who can't stay clean for a test he knows is coming has a serious issue. When testing positive for weed will cost you millions of dollars, and you still can't smoke weed for even a month, and besides you've been caught for it before, and had other disciplinary problems before -- these are big, big red flags. Especially for a guy who's not exactly in peak physical condition and has enormous man-titties at age 21 or whatever.

Raji may be a good kid. He may even just have a simple philosophical disagreement with the league about the dangers of marijuana, a la Ricky Williams. But the fact is the league busts you and suspends you for smoking weed, and once you do test positive at the combine, you automatically enter a structured testing program which increases massively the likelihood of getting caught again. I can't for the life of me see a situation in which Belichick invests a first-rounder on a kid with one strike against him already.

Also, Raji is really a nose tackle. They've already re-signed Wright and they're probably going to re-sign Wilfork. Assuming they do those things, they have a much bigger need for a 3-4 end. I'd rather see them draft someone like Hood or Jarron Gilbert than Raji. And if you're drafting a nose tackle, why not draft Ron Brace instead? No weed issue, and you can get him later in the draft.

Maybe if Raji fell to the bottom of the second, you could grab him there, but not with any of the first three picks -- that would be amazingly risky.

 

[bagwell368]

No Butler or Raji.

Trade (these are all equal w/ the draft calculator):

#23 and #58 to the Cardinals for #31 #63 and #95

trade #89 (3a) and #95 (3b) #124 (4) to the Vikings for #54

trade #31 and #63 and our 6th (around #202) to the Browns for #36 and #50​

Giving these top six picks: 34, 36, 47, 50, 54, 97

Then bring home 5 of these guys, deal one forward to next year:

DL - Jarron Gilbert, Evander Hood, Ron Brace
OLB - Maybin, Matthews, Barwin, English
OT - Beatty, Jamon Meredith, Cadogan, Fulton, TJ Lang
S - Sean Smith, Moore, Rashad Johnson, Vaughn, Martin, Clemons
OG - Robinson, Levitre

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I would be very happy taking Butler at #23. I think he projects as a pro bowl CB. He has confidence/moxy, decent speed, above average change of direction and experience playing zone.

I am not sure how Raji makes it passed Oakland unless Al Davis really wants a speedy WR.

 

[condon84]

Raji's not getting past the Denver Broncos twice in the first round. That team is in desperate need of help along the DL.

If we take Butler at #23, it wouldn't be shocking. Look at our roster. Hobbs is in the final year of his contract, Bodden is in a one year deal, Springs signed for three years, but he's already 34 years old. And our two young guys are unproven, and do not have the physical abilities of Butler. BUtler would become our most athletic and one of our bigger DBs if we get him. Plus he has played some offense for UConn.

 

[bakes781]

I would be very happy taking Butler at #23. I think he projects as a pro bowl CB. He has confidence/moxy, decent speed, above average change of direction and experience playing zone.

That's what I like to hear!

The value is there and with the multitude of picks in round 2 we can afford to be patient when it comes to addressing our more immediate needs.

 

[mgteich]

If Butler projects to Belichick as a future all-pro, then Butler will likely be drafted at 23. I just don't believe that Butler will be rated that highly. If he is even close, 34 will give us another chance.

I would be very happy taking Butler at #23. I think he projects as a pro bowl CB. He has confidence/moxy, decent speed, above average change of direction and experience playing zone.

I am not sure how Raji makes it passed Oakland unless Al Davis really wants a speedy WR.

 

[mayoclinic]

He has confidence/moxy, decent speed, above average change of direction and experience playing zone.

Sounds like Connor Barwin. Oops, wrong thread.

 

[Grizzafted]

It's a hilariously ******ed idea that BJ Raji is going to drop past Green Bay or Denver, at the latest.

If BJ Raji is there for the Broncos they'll pop champagne. That would completely change their defense.

 

[mayoclinic]

It's a hilariously ******ed idea that BJ Raji is going to drop past Green Bay or Denver, at the latest.

If BJ Raji is there for the Broncos they'll pop champagne. That would completely change their defense.

I would tend to agree with you. I don't know how many times I need to repeat "it's a long shot". But when Mike Reiss is posting that he hears rumors that Raji could fall out of the 1st round, I don't think it's "******ed" to indulge in a little fantasizing about unlikely possibilities. Vince Wilfork was a long shot once, too.

 

[Grizzafted]

I hear that, perhaps poor choice of words. But I wouldn't be surprised if this is a team like Denver whispering that "some people say..." so they can scoop him at 12 after Green Bay takes a pass. He will not fall past Denver.

You know, if Denver can parley this situation into BJ Ragi, Rey Maualuga, and then package next year's 1's for Colt McCoy....I'd put them into the "big winner" category of that trade.

 

[mayoclinic]

I hear that, perhaps poor choice of words. But I wouldn't be surprised if this is a team like Denver whispering that "some people say..." so they can scoop him at 12 after Green Bay takes a pass. He will not fall past Denver.

You know, if Denver can parley this situation into BJ Ragi, Rey Maualuga, and then package next year's 1's for Colt McCoy....I'd put them into the "big winner" category of that trade.

I fully agree that the "Raji may fall out of round 1" rumors may be created by teams hoping he falls to them. I don't expect him to fall to 23. I'd be delighted if he did. I think Denver would be "******ed" (to use your word) to pass on him if he fell to 12, but if they decided to do so I would't complain.

If I were Denver I would hope that Raji falls to 12, and I would try to talk Julius Peppers into accepting a trade to Denver. Then I'd offer Carolina the 1 and the 3 Denver got from Chicago for him. Instant defense. The Broncos would be able to stop the run and rush the passer, 2 rather basic things they've struggled with. In terms of overcoming the PR disaster created by the Cutler soap opera, I can't imagine anything more effective.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I fully agree that the "Raji may fall out of round 1" rumors may be created by teams hoping he falls to them. I don't expect him to fall to 23. I'd be delighted if he did. I think Denver would be "******ed" (to use your word) to pass on him if he fell to 12, but if they decided to do so I would't complain.

If I were Denver I would hope that Raji falls to 12, and I would try to talk Julius Peppers into accepting a trade to Denver. Then I'd offer Carolina the 1 and the 3 Denver got from Chicago for him. Instant defense. The Broncos would be able to stop the run and rush the passer, 2 rather basic things they've struggled with. In terms of overcoming the PR disaster created by the Cutler soap opera, I can't imagine anything more effective.

I think Denver would be wise to pass on him at #12 "if" the Combine test results are correct and he did have a prior positive while at BC (I've seen claims here, no links to a source). For Mike Nolan's 3-4, Denver is in a better position to help themselves by drafting an edge rusher and a penetrating DE prospect in round one, then using one of those thirds to move up and grab Ron Brace - if they miss on him Dorrell Scott. They need a mountain in the middle, not an uber-athletic suspension risk.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

If Butler projects to Belichick as a future all-pro, then Butler will likely be drafted at 23. I just don't believe that Butler will be rated that highly. If he is even close, 34 will give us another chance.

You have a point, he could be there at #34, but it is al long way from 23 to 34, a lot can happen and maybe A Smith or the Vandy kid could be other options for #34.

I am not sure Butler can be an all pro in a Tampa 2 or press defense. I think he works best in our soft zone type defense where he can explode out of breaks and make plays on the ball.

But you are right, it's BB call 100%.

 

[captain stone]

As of right now, I'm feeling the 3 Bs at 23: Barwin, Beatty & Butler.

I don't want any QBs on Day 1 (now = 2 rounds);
I don't want any WRs on Day 1;
I don't want any TEs on Day 1;
I don't want any RBs on Day 1;
There are no interior OL-men worthy of 23;
I don't want any WILBs on Day 1 - that means you, Clay Matthews (who's going to Houston, anyway);
There are no SILBs worthy of 23, incl. Maualuga, Cushing & Laurinaitis;
I don't want any FSs on Day 1, exc. for CB/FS Sean Smith;
There are no SSs worthy of 23;
There are no NTs worthy of 23, unless Raji falls;
I don't want a DE at 23, there'll be more later.

That leaves 3 positions where need meets value: OT, OLB & CB.

JSmith & Monroe will be long gone, and I want nothing to do with either Oher or esp. ASmith. That leaves Beatty vs. Britton, and it seems that Beatty has the better chance of becoming a quality starting LT than Britton does, and I like Britton - a lot. Beatty's showing on his pro day dispelled most of the doubts I had about his strength & desire.

There are a lot of OLB prospects worthy of 1st/2nd-round selection - more than I can ever remember. And exc. for Sintim, all of them are conversion projects. So why not choose the one who has proven that he can successfully convert not only to a new position, but to a new side of the field? Barwin's combination of versatility, athleticism, smarts, size, selflessness & motor is absolutely amazing. Besides experience, my only other concern is his strength, but I am not at all concerned about his commitment to improve there.

At the start of the draft process, it was thought that V Davis & M Jenkins were sure-fire top-half 1st-rounders, and that Alphonso Smith & DJ Moore were sure-fire bottom-half 1st-rounders. But the more people saw Smith & Moore, the less they actually saw; and they just do not run well enough to compensate for their smallish sizes, at least as far as using the 23rd - or maybe even the 34th - overall pick on either of them. Sean Smith is a most intriguing player who, if he ever reached his full potential, could almost control by himself one entire half of the field. He also seems to have the fluid hips & COD ability required of a shut-down CB, but does he have the instincts, consistency, maturity & physicality required of a professional? Except for the physicality, Darius Butler seems to have all of those traits, plus the hips & COD. What he lacks, besides Sean Smith's size, is proof of being a playmaker: 0 INTs during his senior season. Unless Davis or Jenkins drops to 23 (unlikely but not impossible), Butler is the logical best CB available.

So as I've said, for me it comes down to Beatty, Barwin & Butler. What it also comes down to, for me, is: who and how many of the OTs, OLBs & CBs are chosen by the 23rd pick, and how many at those positions might be left by the 34th. For instance: if Oher, A Smith & Britton are all still on the board at 23, then I might hope that Beatty lasts until 34. If 3 of E Brown, Cushing, Maybin, Matthews & M Johnson are still on the board at 23, then I might hope that Barwin lasts until 34. This could turn out to be white-knuckle game of chicken played with the 10 picks between 23 and 34.

 

[supafly]

As of right now, I'm feeling the 3 Bs at 23: Barwin, Beatty & Butler.

I don't want any QBs on Day 1 (now = 2 rounds);
I don't want any WRs on Day 1;
I don't want any TEs on Day 1;
I don't want any RBs on Day 1;
There are no interior OL-men worthy of 23;
I don't want any WILBs on Day 1 - that means you, Clay Matthews (who's going to Houston, anyway);
There are no SILBs worthy of 23, incl. Maualuga, Cushing & Laurinaitis;
I don't want any FSs on Day 1, exc. for CB/FS Sean Smith;
There are no SSs worthy of 23;
There are no NTs worthy of 23, unless Raji falls;
I don't want a DE at 23, there'll be more later.

That leaves 3 positions where need meets value: OT, OLB & CB.

JSmith & Monroe will be long gone, and I want nothing to do with either Oher or esp. ASmith. That leaves Beatty vs. Britton, and it seems that Beatty has the better chance of becoming a quality starting LT than Britton does, and I like Britton - a lot. Beatty's showing on his pro day dispelled most of the doubts I had about his strength & desire.

There are a lot of OLB prospects worthy of 1st/2nd-round selection - more than I can ever remember. And exc. for Sintim, all of them are conversion projects. So why not choose the one who has proven that he can successfully convert not only to a new position, but to a new side of the field? Barwin's combination of versatility, athleticism, smarts, size, selflessness & motor is absolutely amazing. Besides experience, my only other concern is his strength, but I am not at all concerned about his commitment to improve there.

At the start of the draft process, it was thought that V Davis & M Jenkins were sure-fire top-half 1st-rounders, and that Alphonso Smith & DJ Moore were sure-fire bottom-half 1st-rounders. But the more people saw Smith & Moore, the less they actually saw; and they just do not run well enough to compensate for their smallish sizes, at least as far as using the 23rd - or maybe even the 34th - overall pick on either of them. Sean Smith is a most intriguing player who, if he ever reached his full potential, could almost control by himself one entire half of the field. He also seems to have the fluid hips & COD ability required of a shut-down CB, but does he have the instincts, consistency, maturity & physicality required of a professional? Except for the physicality, Darius Butler seems to have all of those traits, plus the hips & COD. What he lacks, besides Sean Smith's size, is proof of being a playmaker: 0 INTs during his senior season. Unless Davis or Jenkins drops to 23 (unlikely but not impossible), Butler is the logical best CB available.

So as I've said, for me it comes down to Beatty, Barwin & Butler. What it also comes down to, for me, is: who and how many of the OTs, OLBs & CBs are chosen by the 23rd pick, and how many at those positions might be left by the 34th. For instance: if Oher, A Smith & Britton are all still on the board at 23, then I might hope that Beatty lasts until 34. If 3 of E Brown, Cushing, Maybin, Matthews & M Johnson are still on the board at 23, then I might hope that Barwin lasts until 34. This could turn out to be white-knuckle game of chicken played with the 10 picks between 23 and 34.

It would be nice to have 2 out of the 3--with #23 and #34. That might be wishful thinking though, actually very wishful thinking. Imagine that though, Barwin and Beatty, or Beatty and Butler, etc. I'd be happy with that.

 

[BelichickFan]

FWIW last night on "Path to the Draft" they said several NFL scouts said Butler's pro day was the best CB workout they'd seen in years.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Raji at 23 and Barwin at 34 (or trade up to 26 using #89 and #34 if necessary). Two top 10 talents on defense at reasonable money. Get a safety and go BPA or trade the other pick into 2010.

I like your thinking here.:agree:

 

[Spiral]

Sounds like Connor Barwin. Oops, wrong thread.

I really don't know much about either player, but from the Combine Numbers at nfl.com:

20-yard shuttle:

Darius Butler: 4.19
Connor Barwin: 4.18

3-cone:

Darius Butler: 6.92
Connor Barwin: 6.87

Butler weighed 183, Barwin was 256