Fencer
Pro Bowl Player
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.For anybody who thinks BB wouldn't cut a popular local QB, or a player who he loves to coach -- look at his track record and think again.
For anybody who thinks BB wouldn't cut a popular local QB, or a player who he loves to coach -- look at his track record and think again.
You know I think that the implication that Belichick could continue to succeed without Brady essentially slights Brady in the same way that you feel I am slighting Belichick. I think that posters are OK with that slight of Brady because the likelihood is that Belichick will be here longer than Brady so they are OK with diminishing Brady’s significance because it makes them more hopeful for the future. I think that is wrong, I think to believe that having the best player in the game at the most important position for over a decade puts you in the position to succeed, so believing that Belichick will continue to have the level of success he has had with Brady with another QB is baseless, in fact history would suggest that he will not.Usually this line is only trotted out by fans of other teams that are seeking a way to discredit the success of the Patriots; I'm surprised that you would play that card.
Belichick inherited a very bad Cleveland team that was old and bloated with contracts that needed to be dumped. Despite the bare cupboard, the Browns doubled their number of wins in his first season as head coach. The following year they were doomed with injuries, having to start three quarterbacks - including the immortal Todd Philcox - yet still managed to increase their win total.
In Belichick's third season he finally had enough of Bernie Kosar, and replaced him with Vinny Testaverde. However, Testaverde was injured and he had to revert to Kosar. Cleveland's record remained the same as it was the previous season, 7-9, one win below .500.
The next year the Browns improved again, winning four more games than the previous season. They made the postseason, and won their first playoff game in five years. As it turned out, they have not won a playoff game in the twenty years since that victory over Bill Parcell's Patriots.
The next season the Browns started out 3-1, with their only loss in week one at Foxboro by three points. At the time they looked like they were one of the best teams in football. Then Art Modell announced he was moving the team, and chaos ensued. End result was a 5-11 season, and Belichick was fired.
His two other seasons without Brady were his first with the Patriots, in what was obviously a rebuilding year, and the 11-win 2008 season.
Belichick admitted that he should have handled the Kosar situation better. He learned from it. As far as the final season in Cleveland, there was no precedence in sports to draw knowledge from. Again, it was another valuable learning experience - but I don't know if there are/were many (if any) coaches that could have held the team together in that circumstance; let's not forget it was exacerbated by a meddling owner that didn't have his back. He left a very good team behind, and one that was well set for the future. For example, one trade that he had made for the following year was a draft pick that turned out to be Ray Lewis.
To me the notion that "there is nothing to suggest" that Belichick would ever achieve anything without Brady is extremely shallow, superficial and off-base.
It might be time to read Halberstam's The Education of a Coach, and view NFL Films' Cleveland '95.
Wow, that is way off base, you are calling Belichick god and saying Brady would not even have a NFL career if not for Belichick. Do you think the things that have made Brady the greatest QB ever would not be the same things that would have led him to find his way onto an NFL roster and succeed? Talk about hypocritical; I am slighting Belichick and you just wrote that Brady would be working 9-5 if not for Belichick.If BB didn't draft Brady, chances are he goes undrafted and never even PLAYS in the NFL.
Grade the roster around Brady last season; tell me what that team does with Andy Dalton as the QB? How many of the 7 wins that we had last season by a touchdown or less would we have won without Brady at the helm?Much as I love TFB, he does not run the Pats. BB runs the Pats.
I believe that the team will continue to be sucessful after Brady if BB stays. BB builds a very good, complete team. Don't kid yourself. Brady is not the single reason we win so many games. BBs ability to use all the players in roles that fit them helps us a lot. He is good to find that small part that can use a player to their maximum ability while avoiding the stuff that they are bad t. BB will use an offensive system that fits his QB and not try to force them to be something that they are not. BB continuously rebuilds the team. There are no real rebuilding years because he continously replaces old players. A lot of our very good players are young.Grade the roster around Brady last season; tell me what that team does with Andy Dalton as the QB? How many of the 7 wins that we had last season by a touchdown or less would we have won without Brady at the helm?
I get it by believing that the success is primarily Belichick you can believe this team will continue to dominate when Brady retires, but Brady is a huge difference maker, one of the biggest (if not the biggest) of any player on any roster in the NFL.
I would have to assume that Belichick is smart enough to assess each player individually.
If Brady is having a dropoff and/or Jimmy G is really taking off and proving himself in actual NFL live reps, then it may/will be considered; otherwise, the argument that "he's done it in the past" seems kind of weak when used by itself.
One year after he's extended and works miracles to take us to the AFCCG and we're discussing this? It makes me feel kind of dirty.
There is no other top 3 all time QB in his track record
The situations with Bledsoe, Milloy are not comparable at all, IMO.
I don't think it will be his play, as such, declining so much as it will be injuries catching up. As you note, he's already lost some quickness at avoiding the rush. That isn't likely to improve over time, and that likely means getting hit more often, or at least not LESS often. And you don't bounce back from injuries as quickly as you get older. I suspect that with each year, smallish injuries that keep him out of a couple of games here and there are likely to start appearing.
The question is when do you cross a line that says those things are no longer supportable with a team that's trying to win it all every year.
I believe that the team will continue to be sucessful after Brady if BB stays. BB builds a very good, complete team. Don't kid yourself. Brady is not the single reason we win so many games. BBs ability to use all the players in roles that fit them helps us a lot. He is good to find that small part that can use a player to their maximum ability while avoiding the stuff that they are bad t. BB will use an offensive system that fits his QB and not try to force them to be something that they are not. BB continuously rebuilds the team. There are no real rebuilding years because he continously replaces old players. A lot of our very good players are young.
Brady is the hardest working player on the team, you know when the best most important player is the hardest worker what that does, it makes the other players do the same thing. Players like Edelman model themselves after Brady right down to their haircuts.Brady is amazing. Best QB that I've ever seen. But he is not the only reason we have been so good for so long now. BB should have a big part of the credit for that.
I also love how you talk about Garoppolos measurable flaws as reasons that he can never be good or win 12 games a season. We all know that you are a measurables junkie and that you often can't look past that to see the actual player. But you do know how Brady looked coming out of college, right? He certainly didn't look like a guy who would become the best ever. You could easily give 10, or more, very good reasons for why Brady would never suceed in the NFL. Not saying that Garoppolo is a future top QB in the league. But those numbers mean nothing. Maybe those measurables that you are so obsessed about isn't everything(you should have learned that by now)
Wow, that is way off base, you are calling Belichick god and saying Brady would not even have a NFL career if not for Belichick. Do you think the things that have made Brady the greatest QB ever would not be the same things that would have led him to find his way onto an NFL roster and succeed? Talk about hypocritical; I am slighting Belichick and you just wrote that Brady would be working 9-5 if not for Belichick.
Its a silly discussion. We've seen what bad ownership does to franchises and good coaches. You could argue that without Kraft's financial support, solid organizational and management philosophy, quite possibly Belichick would be a the GoAT DC somewhere AFTER he was fired from the NYJ in 200x.
Tom Brady was projected as a sixth round draft pick whose stock was on the rise predraft. He was taken where he was projected to go, so your suggestion that he would have went undrafted is off, there were 55 players selected after Tom Brady that is almost 2 full rounds worth of players.Try reading what I wrote instead of what passes for it in you own mind.
Everyone knows, or ought to know, how razor thin the margin is for sucess or failure in the NFL. There is no magic 'greatness will find a way' sauce. It requires OPPORTUNITY and those can be very difficult to come by. If, let's say, TB did not get drafted but signed as an UDFA, and let's also remember what he was coming out of school...
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If you seriously think there aren't front offices who would overlook what he /might/ become, then you're an idiot. So, you get signed at the wrong place, cut, and there's every possibility that that's it for you. Or maybe you get picked up somewhere else but you're behind an entrenched QB who /doesn't/ get his lung punctured and doesn't have a coach willing to dump him in favor of a kid who had trouble holding on to the starter's job in college.
There's a good deal of luck involved with being in the right place at exactly the right time which /then/ allows your talents to get you where you want to go.
No way. In past interviews when Brady talks about the night of the 2000 draft, he states that he was already planning in his mind that he would have to go the UDFA route before the Pats called him. Someone would've signed him and never looked back.If BB didn't draft Brady, chances are he goes undrafted and never even PLAYS in the NFL.