Comparison of rookie receivers

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Different times, different positions.

Thompkins doesn't have the speed or physicality to ever be like Victor Cruz.

Physicality? Cruz? and Thompkins may not have the speed but he has very good route running and deceptive speed to get down field. Not a blazer, but he has the threat for a big play.

 

[Froob]

He's simply not gotten emphasis, I wouldn't worry about it. He knows it better than a multiple all pro did.

How do we know that? Boyce wouldn't have been cut even if he had no idea about the playbook. Hopefully that's not the case though. Could use his speed out there on the field.

 

[Deus Irae]

Compare 2002 drafties Deion Branch and David Givens to 2013 drafties of Aaron Dobson, Kenbrell Thompkins (undrafted) and Josh Boyce

Who has more talent, athleticism, big play ability, ceiling and upside?

When using comparisons, don't use success or popularity but focus solely on individual's ability.

If we're focusing solely on individual "ability" (athleticism, ceiling, etc...), the answer is obvious: Chad Jackson. That's why we don't focus solely on some theoretical "ability".

 

[Brady6]

************, Thompkins will never be close to Cruz.

The homerism is sickening.


I'll be disappointed if Boyce doesn't surpass Thompkins at some point later this year. Boyce actually has a similar height-weight-speed as Victor Cruz, and very similar build. Thompkins looks closer to Brandon Lloyd from last year. Possession Receiver who goes down before he gets hit.

I assume since we’re 3 weeks into the season you’re forming your opinion based on what you believe Cruz, Thompkins and Boyce athletic metrics are. These are their actual workout numbers:

Victor Cruz
Combine Invite: No (Pro Day #’s)
Height: 5115
Weight: 206
40 Yard Dash: 4.47
20 Yard Dash: 2.60
10 Yard Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 16
Vertical Jump: 41 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'05"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.17
3-Cone Drill: 6.96

Thompkins
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6005
Weight: 193
40 Yard Dash: 4.46
20 Yard Dash: 2.55
10 Yard Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 08
Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'01"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.21
3-Cone Drill: 6.88

Josh Boyce
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 5111
Weight: 206
40 Yard Dash: 4.34
20 Yard Dash: 2.51
10 Yard Dash: 1.54
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 22
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 10'11"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.10
3-Cone Drill: 6.68

Couple of things:

1. Thompkins may or may not become a Cruz type player, that reality aside your assessment of him athletically is way off, he is actually better than Cruz in the majority of athletic metrics, he played against better competition in college and just like Cruz he was undrafted, the difference being Cruz was undrafted because of his college performance and Thompkins was undrafted because of his off the field issues. It is a very high bar to expect Thompkins to reach Cruz’s level as a player but it is not being a “homer” to suggest the possibility.
2. I am not sure when Brandon Lloyd was a possession receiver ever in his career, last season he may have appeared to be one but it was primarily due to his age diminishing his skill set, Lloyd also caught 74 of his 130 targets last season which would be the worst possession receiver in the NFL bar none. In terms of Thompkins being a possession receiver I guess I question if you even knew his combine numbers, watched any of his college film or for that matter noticed that he has caught 9 of his 28 targets this season, I question it because if you had done any of those things there is no way in hell you’d label Thompkins a possession wide receiver.
3. Josh Boyce is one of the fastest players in the NFL, Victor Cruz ran a 4.47 at a pro day, if you want to compare Boyce to another NFL player it would be Randall Cobb.

Honestly you need to move off the “homer” nonsense you’ve done it in multiple threads this week, if you don’t like the Patriots and have high hopes for their players why don’t you sign off your account and strap on your headset and go play your PlayStation.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Comparison of rookie receivers

Physicality? Cruz? and Thompkins may not have the speed but he has very good route running and deceptive speed to get down field. Not a blazer, but he has the threat for a big play.

Thompkins is actually faster than Cruz.

 

[RayClay]

How do we know that? Boyce wouldn't have been cut even if he had no idea about the playbook. Hopefully that's not the case though. Could use his speed out there on the field.

I was responding to a poster who said he knew a player that hardly played didn't know the playbook.

Nobody knows nothing at this point, it wasn't worth you responding to, or me, for that matter.

 

[Hael]

Combine numbers are so deceptive as to be almost meaningless. It's unclear to me that Boyce is actually faster than KT or Dobson with pads on in a game situation. It didn't seem to be the case in training camp. They all looked about the same, give or take.

Cruz is a perfect example of a player who plays faster and quicker than his combine numbers.

 

[Nehalem]

Thompkins is actually faster than Cruz.

4.46 vs 4.47...

The main difference Athletically appears to be that Cruz is significantly stronger and can jump

 

[VrabelJr]

Cruz and Thompkins don't even play the same WR positions :/ Please watch plays prior to the ball being snapped.

 

[VrabelJr]

To get back on topic: I don't know how high of ceilings exist for Dobson and Thompkins. Neither strikes me as an elite #1. I think they both could be serviceable #1s or slightly above-average #2s. Boyce probably has the highest ceiling due to speed and intelligence. I wouldn't be surprised if Boyce catches on big in years 2 or 3. Dobson's size makes plugging him into the lineup right away easy. I don't think Thompkins will get much bigger or faster (he's 25 years old). I do expect his route running to get better over time though.

Deion Branch and David Givens pre-injuries were incredibly talented. Deion was actually fast and as we all know, ran his routes incredibly well. Givens was strong and had great hands. Givens would stll be a prototypical #1 X-receiver in todays NFL. Modern Brady with a young Branch and Givens (2-3 years into their careers) would be awesome to watch.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

I assume since we’re 3 weeks into the season you’re forming your opinion based on what you believe Cruz, Thompkins and Boyce athletic metrics are. These are their actual workout numbers:

Victor Cruz
Combine Invite: No (Pro Day #’s)
Height: 5115
Weight: 206
40 Yard Dash: 4.47
20 Yard Dash: 2.60
10 Yard Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 16
Vertical Jump: 41 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'05"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.17
3-Cone Drill: 6.96

Thompkins
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6005
Weight: 193
40 Yard Dash: 4.46
20 Yard Dash: 2.55
10 Yard Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 08
Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'01"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.21
3-Cone Drill: 6.88

Josh Boyce
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 5111
Weight: 206
40 Yard Dash: 4.34
20 Yard Dash: 2.51
10 Yard Dash: 1.54
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 22
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 10'11"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.10
3-Cone Drill: 6.68

Couple of things:

1. Thompkins may or may not become a Cruz type player, that reality aside your assessment of him athletically is way off, he is actually better than Cruz in the majority of athletic metrics, he played against better competition in college and just like Cruz he was undrafted, the difference being Cruz was undrafted because of his college performance and Thompkins was undrafted because of his off the field issues. It is a very high bar to expect Thompkins to reach Cruz’s level as a player but it is not being a “homer” to suggest the possibility.
2. I am not sure when Brandon Lloyd was a possession receiver ever in his career, last season he may have appeared to be one but it was primarily due to his age diminishing his skill set, Lloyd also caught 74 of his 130 targets last season which would be the worst possession receiver in the NFL bar none. In terms of Thompkins being a possession receiver I guess I question if you even knew his combine numbers, watched any of his college film or for that matter noticed that he has caught 9 of his 28 targets this season, I question it because if you had done any of those things there is no way in hell you’d label Thompkins a possession wide receiver.
3. Josh Boyce is one of the fastest players in the NFL, Victor Cruz ran a 4.47 at a pro day, if you want to compare Boyce to another NFL player it would be Randall Cobb.

Honestly you need to move off the “homer” nonsense you’ve done it in multiple threads this week, if you don’t like the Patriots and have high hopes for their players why don’t you sign off your account and strap on your headset and go play your PlayStation.

LAUGHABLE. Combine numbers aren't everything (unless you're the Raiders)


Even if you're going by those numbers, Cruz is twice as strong and has a way better vertical.

He's also an inch shorter, but over 10lbs heavier than Thompkins. Their playing style is not similar at all from what we've seen of Thompkins.

Brandon Lloyd wasn't a possession receiver last year? Show me some plays when he actually got good YAC. There's a reason he's no longer with the team.

Try again, GI Joe.

if you don’t like the Patriots and have high hopes for their players

Just because I have realistic expectations for Thompkins that doesn't mean I don't like the Patriots or have high hopes for the players.

I wish Thompkins could be the next Cruz or Hakeem Nicks... but it's just that... Wishful thinking on everyones part. Realistically we should be happy if the UFDA even turns out to be as good as Lloyd was last year.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

I Hate Homers.
First 3 Weeks of the season on this forum:
-Pats will go 16-0 again
-Chandler Jones DPOY
-Kenbrell Thompkins the next Victor Cruz

If you have an issue with a poster that makes you feel an emotion as strong as hate, you could ignore them or try counseling. I like to use the ignore function when someone is annoying. An anti-patsfans signature is pretty annoying.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

If you have an issue with a poster that makes you feel an emotion as strong as hate, you could ignore them or try counseling. I like to use the ignore function when someone is annoying. An anti-patsfans signature is pretty annoying.

There's a difference between being a fan, and being a homer.


Being a Homer is the stuff we make fun of Jets fans for. So I don't like seeing it here as well.

It reminds me of the times I went over to the Jets forums and laughed my ass off reading how they made excuses for the butt fumble.

I'm not a hateful person, just a realistic person who dislikes all these unrealistic expectations.

 

[Brady6]

LAUGHABLE. Combine numbers aren't everything (unless you're the Raiders)


Even if you're going by those numbers, Cruz is twice as strong and has a way better vertical.

He's also an inch shorter, but over 10lbs heavier than Thompkins. Their playing style is not similar at all from what we've seen of Thompkins.

Brandon Lloyd wasn't a possession receiver last year? Show me some plays when he actually got good YAC. There's a reason he's no longer with the team.

Try again, GI Joe.




Just because I have realistic expectations for Thompkins that doesn't mean I don't like the Patriots or have high hopes for the players.

I wish Thompkins could be the next Cruz or Hakeem Nicks... but it's just that... Wishful thinking on everyones part. Realistically we should be happy if the UFDA even turns out to be as good as Lloyd was last year.

Honestly I'm not as high on Thompkins as most, and like you I have higher aspirations for Boyce, that aside my point is only that it Thompkins is not a possession receiver and athletically he is similar player to Cruz on paper. Is Thompkins likely to become as good as Cruz no the percentages are against him for sure but it is to soon to determine that, Thompkins could be out of league in a year, or he could be a top 20 receiver, I think there are examples to indicate either scenario. I am sure initially there were posters in the Giants forums labeled as homers for suggesting Cruz was going to be the player he Is today.

I think we should all give the rookies at least 10 games in the NFL before concluding what they can or cannot be achieve as players.

The GI Joe comment was cute, I was actually a first class airman though so the comparison isn't a good fit

 

[JackBauer]

I'm not a hateful person, just a realistic person who dislikes all these unrealistic expectations.

So realistic you once created a thread to ask if Ninkovich was the worst starter in the NFL?

 

[MrNathanDrake]

Honestly I'm not as high on Thompkins as most, and like you I have higher aspirations for Boyce, that aside my point is only that it Thompkins is not a possession receiver and athletically he is similar player to Cruz on paper. Is Thompkins likely to become as good as Cruz no the percentages are against him for sure but it is to soon to determine that, Thompkins could be out of league in a year, or he could be a top 20 receiver, I think there are examples to indicate either scenario. I am sure initially there were posters in the Giants forums labeled as homers for suggesting Cruz was going to be the player he Is today.

Even when Thompkins was at his best in training camp, he never looked similar to Cruz. He does strike me as a possession WR... Very little YAC and didn't catch many deep balls.

I think we should all give the rookies at least 10 games in the NFL before concluding what they can or cannot be achieve as players.

Agree.

and I can't believe how quickly people have forgotten about Sudfeld. That kid is gonna beast when he settles in and gets comfortable.