2004 Offense vs 2013 Offense

[NEPettyOfficer72]

How does the 2004 Offense compare to the 2013 Offense

Corey Dillon (Power-I), Kevin Faulk (PR/RB/WR/3rd Down), Patrick Pass, Mike Cloud
Deion Branch (Slot, X), David Givens (X, Y), Troy Brown (Slot, X, PR/CB), David Patten (Slot, X, Y, Z), Bethel Johnson (KR)
Daniel Graham, Christian Fauria, Mike Vrabel (TE/OLB)
Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Stephen Neal, Dan Koppen, Russ Hotchstein

Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen (RB/WR/3rd Down), Brandon Bolden (Power-I), Leon Washington (PR/KR/3rd Down), LeGarrette Blount (Power-I)
Danny Amendola (Slot, X, Y, Z, PR), Aaron Dobson (X, Y, Z), Julian Edelman (X, KR/PR/RB/Slot), Josh Boyce (X, Y, Z, RB/Slot Back), Kenbrell Thompkins (X, Y, PR)
Rob Gronkowski, Jake Ballard
Logan Mankins, Sebastian Vollmer, Ryan Wendell, Nate Solder, Dan Connolly

This years group has more talent IMO

 

[Brady6]

How does the 2004 Offense compare to the 2013 Offense

Corey Dillon (Power-I), Kevin Faulk (PR/RB/WR/3rd Down), Patrick Pass, Mike Cloud
Deion Branch (Slot, X), David Givens (X, Y), Troy Brown (Slot, X, PR/CB), David Patten (Slot, X, Y, Z), Bethel Johnson (KR)
Daniel Graham, Christian Fauria, Mike Vrabel (TE/OLB)
Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Stephen Neal, Dan Koppen, Russ Hotchstein

Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen (RB/WR/3rd Down), Brandon Bolden (Power-I), Leon Washington (PR/KR/3rd Down), LeGarrette Blount (Power-I)
Danny Amendola (Slot, X, Y, Z, PR), Aaron Dobson (X, Y, Z), Julian Edelman (X, KR/PR/RB/Slot), Josh Boyce (X, Y, Z, RB/Slot Back), Kenbrell Thompkins (X, Y, PR)
Rob Gronkowski, Jake Ballard
Logan Mankins, Sebastian Vollmer, Ryan Wendell, Nate Solder, Dan Connolly

This years group has more talent IMO

I get what you're trying to do here brother; you see so much concern and negativity around this offense and want to show that it's not that big of a concern. The problem with this argument is that the offense has to be more talented now, NFL offenses have evolved, scoring is up nearly 1.5 points per game league wide since 2004. May not seem like a lot but when you consider it's an average of all 32 teams it is a significant margin.

NFL Season By Season Team Offense - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[JMC00]

I might hold off on Blount and Ballard.

The Pats may go with 5 RB but if they decide to go with 4, all reports through the first 7 days of practice have Bolden ahead of Blount. But it's only week 1 and there are 28 days left.

I've also seen a few beat writers report Ballard does not look like a sure thing as some people thought he might be to make the roster so far. And If they decide to go the route of putting Gronk on the 53 man but an inactive for the fist few games because he is on track to return before Week 7. That they could very well only carry 3 TE which might have Ballad on the outside depending on how Hoomanawanui, Fells and Sudfield look.

 

[Brady6]

How does the 2004 Offense compare to the 2013 Offense

Corey Dillon (Power-I), Kevin Faulk (PR/RB/WR/3rd Down), Patrick Pass, Mike Cloud
Deion Branch (Slot, X), David Givens (X, Y), Troy Brown (Slot, X, PR/CB), David Patten (Slot, X, Y, Z), Bethel Johnson (KR)
Daniel Graham, Christian Fauria, Mike Vrabel (TE/OLB)
Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Stephen Neal, Dan Koppen, Russ Hotchstein

Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen (RB/WR/3rd Down), Brandon Bolden (Power-I), Leon Washington (PR/KR/3rd Down), LeGarrette Blount (Power-I)
Danny Amendola (Slot, X, Y, Z, PR), Aaron Dobson (X, Y, Z), Julian Edelman (X, KR/PR/RB/Slot), Josh Boyce (X, Y, Z, RB/Slot Back), Kenbrell Thompkins (X, Y, PR)
Rob Gronkowski, Jake Ballard
Logan Mankins, Sebastian Vollmer, Ryan Wendell, Nate Solder, Dan Connolly

This years group has more talent IMO

The best thing I can say for this offense is that it’s just like any other year it has question marks at certain position to start the year and could potentially be lacking something.

2009- Quarterback (Brady returning from major knee surgery), Tight End, Running back.
2010- Running back, Deep-threat (post Moss), Tight end.
2011- Outside wide receiver, 3rd wide receiver, Right guard
2012- Deep-threat, 3rd Wide receiver, Left tackle, Right guard, Center, Running back.

We've never had a perfect offense, actually last season I'd say we had more questions than answers at the start of week one. What we do have is Tom Brady and he makes a lot of things better. If we can go 11-5 without him we can do just about anything with him.

 

[RayClay]

We have a better line, but you're trying to compare talent with proven talent. Dillon, Faulk and Branch were proven, seasoned performers.

The area where we would have excelled has a bit of a hole blown in it with jailbird gone and Gronk still iffy, but gronk and others still beat the TEs on that team I think.

Talent is nice, proven performance wins championships.

I'd like to see a smaller TE/HB acquired cause that offense worked so well. I'm thinking that body type fits a lot of guys that aren't exactly in demand, though they wouldn't equal jailbird, of course.

Then coach the hell out of the WRs and the word on Vereen is excellent, from what i hear and i love the "talent" on defense.

But the best 3rd down back ever, SB MVP and should have been HOF running back who pounded defenses stacked against him year after year before we got him aren't "talent" they are "results."

 

[Salva135]

How about we compare the defenses?

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

We have a better line, but you're trying to compare talent with proven talent. Dillon, Faulk and Branch were proven, seasoned performers.

The area where we would have excelled has a bit of a hole blown in it with jailbird gone and Gronk still iffy, but gronk and others still beat the TEs on that team I think.

Talent is nice, proven performance wins championships.

I'd like to see a smaller TE/HB acquired cause that offense worked so well. I'm thinking that body type fits a lot of guys that aren't exactly in demand, though they wouldn't equal jailbird, of course.

Then coach the hell out of the WRs and the word on Vereen is excellent, from what i hear and i love the "talent" on defense.

But the best 3rd down back ever, SB MVP and should have been HOF running back who pounded defenses stacked against him year after year before we got him aren't "talent" they are "results."

I like that we have a younger version of everything we had during the Championship years offensively.

First off, 70% Gronk and a healthy Jake Ballard easily excels over Graham and Fauria. Hell, they easily excel over at least 80% of the TE sets today

Danny Amendola at full health to me, can do anything that Deion Branch could. I would give Deion an edge on speed, but that's about it. They are the same time of elusive and shifty type of player with great hands and the deep ball. And hopefully his chemistry with Tom continues to build.

Edelman, (I'm a little pissed at the guy for missing all this time) although has a long camp ahead of him, is also shifty, quick and has that slot back skill set and can serve as a Troy Brown type hell they both played corner lol. Edelman is better in regards to run after the catch or make people miss. Routes and hands have improved from the looks of last year before he got hurt. Hopefully he can pick up where he left off, last year like when we played the Jets. Be nice if Edelman can play the role that Amendola is suppose to play allowing him to play a Deion Branch or David Givens Role.

Josh Boyce I know I know is a rookie, but right now its talent and its what we have and I don't give a rats *ss. He has speed to get down field, and can make quick cuts on his routes, and has solid hands. Mind you he did his thing in college on a broken foot, was their all-time leading receiver. I think you can move this guy around like they did with David Patten, although a Z role would better suit him. I also like the fact that he is thick, and physical... like a fast version of David Givens, something to watch.

Kenbrell Thompkins could virtually play anybody on the 2004 offense. He is more gifted then any one them, with the exception of Deion Branch maybe.

Shane Vereen to me is better then Woodhead, and has more upside definitely. He serves as our Kevin Faulk, just without the experience. Don't get me wrong, I'm just comparing skill sets, not trying to replace anybody at all talent wise, but skillset wise.

Runningbacks, we have at least 5 quality with two 1,000 yard rushers, a shifty punt return legend and veteran third down back, and a solid power running game. Collectively because each running back is very talented could hold its own like Dillon and Faulk.

Talent wise, we a stacked.. its just a matter of it being unproven and without the experience.

 

[IllegalContact]

great! it'll work perfectly if the defense can only give up 260 points!

which would put them exactly where they were in 2004, 2nd in the NFL

if that happens, then chalk up another 14-2 season

 

[mgteich]

I would take the 2004 offense in a heartbeat. We are now much better at OL and better at TE if Gronk gets back to near 100%. We are much worse at RB and WR.

The defense isn't in the same ballpark at all; but then that is why I presume that you focused on the offense.

Finally, we need to consider how much better passing offenses have gotten since 2004.

How does the 2004 Offense compare to the 2013 Offense

Corey Dillon (Power-I), Kevin Faulk (PR/RB/WR/3rd Down), Patrick Pass, Mike Cloud
Deion Branch (Slot, X), David Givens (X, Y), Troy Brown (Slot, X, PR/CB), David Patten (Slot, X, Y, Z), Bethel Johnson (KR)
Daniel Graham, Christian Fauria, Mike Vrabel (TE/OLB)
Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Stephen Neal, Dan Koppen, Russ Hotchstein

Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen (RB/WR/3rd Down), Brandon Bolden (Power-I), Leon Washington (PR/KR/3rd Down), LeGarrette Blount (Power-I)
Danny Amendola (Slot, X, Y, Z, PR), Aaron Dobson (X, Y, Z), Julian Edelman (X, KR/PR/RB/Slot), Josh Boyce (X, Y, Z, RB/Slot Back), Kenbrell Thompkins (X, Y, PR)
Rob Gronkowski, Jake Ballard
Logan Mankins, Sebastian Vollmer, Ryan Wendell, Nate Solder, Dan Connolly

This years group has more talent IMO

 

[Brady6]

. We are much worse at RB and WR.

I'm not sure that's true specifically at RB.

I think you'd be insane to take the 04' offense over this season because Brady wasn't nearly as evolved as a QB back then.

 

[Joker]

Rules changes render all this arguing moot...you all realize this right?

 

[doesntmatter1]

I remember the 04 season like the back of my hand. The guys that really made the offense go were dillon, branch, givens, and brown in that order.

Dillon was a power back that could consistently bounce runs out when he wanted to that went for long gains. For years now our recent backs usually just go straight up the gut for average gains. It seemed only bolden tried to bounce runs with some success but he barely played so at the moment 04 dillon wins at the moment.

Amendola is on par with branch but i need to see our other guys perform before i even dare say they are on equal terms. I still feel even after all these years that givens was our most underated wr and gaffney is the closest thing i have seen to him. Just thinking about past receivers reminds me that they were able to make the tough catches. In those days I remember quite a few diving catches(anyone remember the brady rollout to his left and throw a bomb to bethel against seattle to seal the game). Over the years i feel that only welker and lloyd could lay out for a catch and actually come down with it.

Though I'm optimistic about this year's squad, the 04 running game wins me over. Though i like ridley, he won't give us a truly dominant ground game so i am really hoping blount or bolden become the lead back with vereen playing the faulk/change of pace guy.

 

[ATippett56]

Though i like ridley, he won't give us a truly dominant ground game so i am really hoping blount or bolden become the lead back with vereen playing the faulk/change of pace guy.

Blount fumbles the football more often than Ridley.

LeGarrette Blount NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Blount fumbles the football more often than Ridley.

LeGarrette Blount NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Stevan Ridley his first full season starting picked up 1,263 yards, and 12 TDs. His 82 first down rushes ranked third in the league amongst running backs. To say you hope Blount or Bolden are the featured backs is idiotic and unknowledgeable respectfully. Clearly, Ridley looks like he is a rising star and he is also a decent receiver out of the backfield. Laurence Maroney, who was our best back closest to Corey Dillon never seen that production in any of his seasons, and he was considered good. Its obvious that although Stevan Ridley may not be Corey Dillon, he provides us the closest thing to him in regards to TD's, and production since him.

The you have at least 4 other good quality backs, vs Dillon, Faulk. I love Dillon and Faulk but 4 or 5 are better then two, especially when they are all very talented in their own right. That means fresher bodies, and a bigger rotation which is tough to defend, especially against no huddle situations.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

I remember the 04 season like the back of my hand. The guys that really made the offense go were dillon, branch, givens, and brown in that order.

Dillon was a power back that could consistently bounce runs out when he wanted to that went for long gains. For years now our recent backs usually just go straight up the gut for average gains. It seemed only bolden tried to bounce runs with some success but he barely played so at the moment 04 dillon wins at the moment.

Amendola is on par with branch but i need to see our other guys perform before i even dare say they are on equal terms. I still feel even after all these years that givens was our most underated wr and gaffney is the closest thing i have seen to him. Just thinking about past receivers reminds me that they were able to make the tough catches. In those days I remember quite a few diving catches(anyone remember the brady rollout to his left and throw a bomb to bethel against seattle to seal the game). Over the years i feel that only welker and lloyd could lay out for a catch and actually come down with it.

Though I'm optimistic about this year's squad, the 04 running game wins me over. Though i like ridley, he won't give us a truly dominant ground game so i am really hoping blount or bolden become the lead back with vereen playing the faulk/change of pace guy.

And that's the thing .... with the 04 group, as dominant as it was well it was really on two people Dillon and Faulk. Vereen can provide us with what Faulk did, BUT he is also a very good running back between the tackles and has speed. You realize that we have two running backs that have gained 1,000 yards in a season, and another one in Brandon Bolden who could with another team or perhaps come close. Leon Washington has also done a good job over his career being a third down, shifty change of pace running back. Especially when he was with Curtis Martin, remember that? And he is only 30, I'd take quantity that equals quality in numbers any day.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

You can say

Ridley > Maroney
Ridley < Dillon, but closest thing to Dillon, and could still get better
Vereen = Faulk, Vereen's upside is ridiculous and he gets downfield vertically
It just appears as though Shane's skillset is something we haven't seen since Faulk

Blount and Bolden > Pass or Cloud without question.

Hell, Blount or Bolden > Maroney IMO

Amendola = Branch, I just can't see anything that Branch does better
Dobson vs Givens, Givens was tough and clutch but Dobson is taller, more athletic, faster and has great hands, although a rookie, that's my point he has a taller ceiling and more upside and potential then does David. We'll see if it comes out, but he is have a phenomenal camp so far.
Boyce - Can serve as a Givens, but faster, and quick in cuts.
Boyce > Patten, no question
Troy Brown > Julian Edelman, but J is quicker, more elusive, and route running and hands were on the rise last season before injury. If he can pick back up where he left off, then he has the skillset to be explosive, just HAS TO STAY ON THE FIELD.
Kenbrell Thompkins > Bethel Johnson easily, Thompkins is more of a receiver

GRONKOWSKI is so good that his talent surpasses ANYBODY on the 04 offense, and definitely the tightends. Not even close in IMO.

Ballard > Fauria or Daniel Graham

Offensive Line is better then 04

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Hart: Vereen can be 'dynamic' playmaker | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

Watch this video, I agree with both. Faulk was good, but Vereen can make more plays IMO, he can possibly be the best third down back we've ever had. Think about the upside, his college days, his speed, quickness, athleticism and agility as well has routes and hands. Don't get me wrong, Faulk did all the little things well, but from a dynamic standpoint, Vereen can be so much of a weapon in the offense to where defenses would have to game plan specifically around him.

 

[Deus Irae]

:bricks:


Thank goodness for thread ignore.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

:bricks:


Thank goodness for thread ignore.

My little civilian buddy... you are my favorite

 

[goheels22002]

great! it'll work perfectly if the defense can only give up 260 points!

which would put them exactly where they were in 2004, 2nd in the NFL

if that happens, then chalk up another 14-2 season

260 - 280 is within the realm of possibility for this defense, barring major injuries. The addition of Tommy Kelly and Chandler Jones in his second year in the NFL makes the DL better than one year ago. The linebacking corps is possibly the deepest in the NFL with all sorts of versatility. And the secondary is far superior to the one that began last season, and better than the one that finished the season with a full camp together and the addition of Adrian Wilson and one of the Rutgers kids.

The biggest question mark on defense is the Defensive Coordinator. I do not have a read on Matt Patricia and what he brings to the table.