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Chris Long's change of direction and athletic ability....impressive!

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by sebman2112, Feb 25, 2008.

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  1. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Watching the D-Line and LB drills today, and Chris Long's footwork and hips were outstanding, while he maintained good speed. He's (unofficially) run a 4.71 forty, at 6'3" 272lbs. His 34in vert was pretty nice, and his 10'4" long jump was very good.

    These are the type of drills I had wanted to see Chris go through as I knew how good of a pass rusher he could be, but I wanted to see him go through some of these agility drills and coverage drills. In any case what I've seen from Chris so far has been quite impressive. He's quite the athlete, with a very nice frame/build, and agility.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  2. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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    He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.
  3. rsd

    rsd Rookie

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    I think you are vastly overrating 40 times, especially when the difference is not huge. The Patriots have shown the prefer football players instead of the athletic freaks, and I think they have a justifiable position.
  4. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    4.71 isn't at all slow for a 272lbs DE/OLB. His 4.71 isn't far off Gholston's 4.64 either.

    I've already talked about how much I like Groves (been talking about him for months), so you don't have to win me over. Trading down and taking Groves has been among my favorite options, too. Besides I don't think there's even a 10% chance Chris Long makes it to 7th overall, so I didn't post this thread for that reason.

    Also, Harvey at 291lbs has looked better than I expected.
  5. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Was he really 291? I read on another thread that it had been corrected to 271. . . .
  6. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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    Seb's,
    Your right 4.71 isn't slow for 272 pound DE. It's the OLB part that I'm alittle concerned about. I'm not a Big fan of Long nor Gholston if we are going to convert them to OLBer's. I just think we aren't talking about our new playing surface enough as it pertains to this draft. When we had quicksand in between the hashes we could field a slower team but it showed up this season how slow we were at LBer. I believe that's why we got AD because of his outstanding speed with his playmaking ability. Long and Gholston to me are both OLB projects who are slow for our playing surface. IMHO.
  7. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    1) It's not a slow 40 for a 3-4 outside guy at 270.
    2) That position is about explosion. Look at the broad jump and leap, explosive hips. That's what makes a guy an effective 3-4 outside linebacker. It's pretty telling about first step in rush, and finishing speed in persuit. I bet the dude can hangclean with the best of em.

    Sebman, have you seen Gholston in the drills? I only got to see them running their 40's before I had to get some work done. How's he look?
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  8. Patdown93

    Patdown93 Rookie

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    Gholston looked good in the one LB drill I saw him in. He looked fluid, but not as fluid as Chris Long. He stayed low and kept his hips low. He moved well overall. He did hold the ball at a weird angle though.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  9. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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    I don't think I do, I'm just pointing out the facts. And yes there is a Big difference between a 4.52 and a 4.62 or 4.72 especially in a game of inches. You also need to look at the yard splits. Also, I believe the Patriots are changing they're philosophy to a more speed and playmaking ability. I believe they want athletic freaks who are also football players and they won't win with "JAG"'s or "Plug and Play players" anymore. Look at the personel acquisitions the last off-season. Speed,speed and playmakers.
  10. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    How often does a linebacker run a linear 40 yard sprint? Acceleration, acceleration, acceleration. The high and broad jumps are far more accurate measures of how they will translate to position-specific playing speed. Those numbers will correlate far better to coming off of the edge or closing on a ball-carrier.

    Then, we get into coverage skills and ability to effectively drop into zone. What about hip fluidity? How well do they snap their hips around? Do they maintain a z? Is their chest over their feet when they cut? Do they maintain a wide base?

    You're putting way too much empasis on a 40 time.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  11. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    Long is going to be the 1st overall selection, especially now that Dorsey is starting to fall because of red flags. I wouldn't get my hopes up that he'll fall to the Patriots. He's going to be a heck of a player though.
  12. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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  13. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    I doubt McGinest ran any faster than a 4.71 when he was coming out, and he made the 3-4 OLB transition pretty smoothly, no?
  14. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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    Shuttle times and cone drills are important too that you seem to forget. Look 40 times are important as well. Example, If Long or Gholston make special teams it's straight line speed about 40 yards and it could be the difference between a TD or a saving tackle . I like Long and Gholston as well but not on our playing surface in a OLBer role over more proven OLBers in this draft like Groves who have good cover skills. Gholston and Long are simply OLB Projects at this point and I don't like there value at 7 over a trade down with extra picks and a playmaker like Groves or whomever. Meaning are these two guys at 7 better than potentially 3 players. Answer to that is ABSOLUTELY NOT, IMHO.
  15. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    After today's performance, Groves will absolutely not be available in the Patriots trade down, and may not even be available at #7.

    I'd take Long (you're drafting him as a LB, not a STer), but would not take Gholston. I want Groves.
  16. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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  17. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    Dude. AD is a freak, he's not normal. So, by following your logic, Rosie would run a 4.5 40? Maybe on a slow day a 4.6?

    He ran a 4.9 before the Bo Jackson incident. That's right, a 4.9. "But, that must mean he's slow!". No, it doesn't. A 40 has little to do with how fast a player will be in pass-rushing situations. Rosie has superior reaction time, an explosive first step and gets good anticipation of the snap count. The 40 is not a good indication of playing speed for a linebacker. Plain and simple. But please, enlighten me, what other drills do you look for in your madden drafts?
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  18. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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    Actually, he was by a very slim margin. But we are trying I believe to change to a more speed defense not these projects like Willie, Tedy and Vrabs. I just think we are going to get faster at LB and Safety. Look at Pittsburgh fighting to keep that sloppy field because it helps their defense and we have so far since the field change gotten faster on offense and we are loosing more than likely our best playmaker on defense in Asante. So if we were going to a 4-3 I would put a higher value on Long and Gholston, but like I said I don't see either on being a Franchise player worth possibly 3 players.
  19. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    I suspect Chris Long could play ILB for us too. That's a really good 40 time.

    Also, Jon Goff had one of the best forty times - I'd love him inside as well.
  20. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    Jeez, could've sworn we won 3 Super Bowls with those guys.
  21. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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  22. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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    Groves will be available at around 18-24. There is so much talent that the media and fans are in oooohhhhh and aaaahhhhhh mode but the scouts that have done they're job are not surprised by these guys.

    Also if we draft Long he will be expected to play special teams right away as an OLB.
  23. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    I'll admit that I still have questions about Gholston, even after watching him here at the combine. he killed the forty, long jump, and 225. But, to me Gholston seems like more of a 4-3 DE, or situational 3-4 pass rusher, and somewhat of a project if you're expecting him to be an every down 3-4 LB. He's really thick, and I actually didn't like the way he looked in that drill (the one previously discussed), but that was after watching Long kill it. I do think he sealed his place in the top 5-10 picks, but my questions regarding his coverage ability still remain.

    Chris Long looks very fluid in his movement, and his change of direction was outstanding. The short shuttle (unofficially 7.02) he put up was better than Carriker's last year, his feet are quick, and he didn't take any false steps.
  24. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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    Seb,
    I don't disagree with anything you said. But what it boils down to for me is do "Project" OLB prospects Gholston and Long provide better value at #7 than a player like Groves and potentially 2 other players. And the answer for me is Absolutely not. I'll take (Hypothetically) Groves who I think is a late first steal and a 2nd and 2009 first over Gholston and/or Long without even blinking. Especially since we will probably loose Asante.
  25. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    AD is a very good player and I have been one of those that has defended him against a lot of critics this season. But he has neither the ability to bend off the edge, nor the play to play discipline/intensity/hand usage of C. Long.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  26. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    The meteoric rise of combine superstars that happens year after year says very differently.
  27. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Jon had an official 4.63 forty. I've been talking about Goff for a while on here, and it seems two of the guys I like (Groves and Goff) haven't received much love or coverage during this draft process. Goff was a consistent producer in the SEC, durable, a team leader, has a big frame, and he's intelligent. I also thought he looked good in some of the drills they've run so far.
  28. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    And he's a local kid, too.
  29. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Really, I don't understand what point you're trying to make where my post(s) are concerned. I already said I don't think there is any way Long makes it to 7th overall, and I've been saying for months that I really like Groves. I've also continually said I don't want to pick in the top ten, and would really like to trade down. You're points of contention are recycled version of points I've already made within these draft threads.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  30. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey
    A couple of things:

    1.) I think Willie ran a 4.55 coming out of USC.

    2.) Did Groves run today? What did he run?

    3.) A 10 foot broad jump is an impressive display of explosion. Parcells must be salivating.

    4.) Goff ran a 4.6? That's not too shabby. BB has to be looking hard at this guy.
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