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CHFF/WEEI: Brady vs. Belichick is no contest

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JSn, Oct 17, 2008.

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  1. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    The "logic" here is astounding. I guess forumers with sucky grammar aren't the only ones who make snap decisions.

    WEEI 850AM Sports Radio - Brady vs. Belichick Is No Contest

    Excerpt (with some superb fact skewing):

    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  2. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Do you think Belichick could have won three Superbowls with Drew Bledsoe

    at quarterback? Highly unlikely!
  3. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would agree that the Patriots HAVE drafted relatively poorly in 2 of the last 3 years. Poorly in the sense of failure to sustain a dominant team with new quality younguns. As a homer and a summer training camp afficianado, I like this year's crop of rooks but it's still the honneymoon with most of the picks.
  4. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Lets see. Kraft didn't want to draft Brady, nor did any other team. So Brady without BB, Brady's record is 0-0.
  5. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    I didn't know that about Kraft. I did read that it was a compensatory pick they used. What/who did they get the comp. pick for?
  6. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I think he could have won one.

    How do I know this?

    Because before Belichick joined the team in 1995, Parcells had us at 5-11.

    Belichick joined and the next thing you know, we're in the Super Bowl. Why? Belichick.

    The most amazing thing to watch is what happened to the Jets after Belichick joined. From Kotite to the AFC Championship game.

    Explain that.
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    These people all know better. A raw coaching record without context is useless in such a discussion, because it doesn't take into account the state of the franchise(s) when the coach arrived or the state of the franchise(s) after he left.
  8. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Weren't the Browns on the way up when he left Cleveland? I might be misremembering the facts, but the franchise moved and he didn't go with them?
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Yes they were, they had gone from 3-13 to 11-5 with a playoff win (over Parcells and the Patriots). I don't count the last year as the move was announced a few games in.

    Regradless - they might be right who knows - but their "facts" are flawed because they can't look at Brady without Belichick. I think Brady would do just fine without Belichick but we have never actually seen it nor have we seen what Brady would have become without him. Again, I think Brady would have done just fine but there's no facts to prove it.
  10. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    If we put Brady on the Arizona Cardinals in 2001, would they have been to the SB four times?
  11. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    THe Browns got better during his tenure. HE left when they moved to Balt....Balt won a SB 4/5 years later. SO while BB had very little to do with it one could argue his tenure got the team trending up.


    The premise of the argument I think is stupid. Neither one of them was winning 3 without the other. I can say that with almost certainty. I think they each could have one a SB without the other obviously the circumstances would have to have been right but they each have proved their worth at this point and to argue one was more important than the other is foolish
  12. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course. Belichick brokered the deal to move the Browns to Baltimore after he had created a playoff contender, causing the team to tank. And, of course, he told Parcells to bail after the Super Bowl in 1996 and instructed Kraft to hire Carroll, ushering in the 3-year decline prompting a genuine rebuilding effort when he arrived. So some of his lousy seasons are clearly the product of his poor leadership.

    Of course, any head coach losing a QB like Brady would be expected to roll through the season with a backup. Marv Lewis would do it with a great receiving corps and running back. No, scratch that. He couldn't do it with a top 5 QB, a great receiving corps and a great running back. I'm sure Lewis would be the exception.

    The fact is Brady and Belichick are great at their respective jobs, and logically each derives benefit from the other's abilities. Brady did not create the defensive juggernauts that crushed opposing offenses and Belichick did not make clutch passes and decisions when needed. The argument that Belichick is great because of Brady is as ridiculous as the argument that Brady is a system QB great because of Belichick. The facts speak otherwise if you are capable of reviewing the history.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  13. Deus Irae

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    Well, the year before BB took over the Browns, they won 3 games. He won 6,7,7 and 11 games, and took the Browns to the playoffs in that 4th season. The following year, the team started of pretty well, but then news of the move got out and the team collapsed. A 3-1 start turned into a 5-11 season and BB was fired.

    However, when you look at the next 4 seasons, you see a Browns/Ravens team that won 4,6,6 and 8 games, so it's not as if the team soared to magnificent heights as soon as he was fired or anything.
  14. captadamnj

    captadamnj Rookie

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    How about that Tom Brady devised defense in the SB win over the Rams? That was really something. He's also come up with some great defensive game plans against the Colts (and other teams) over the years. I'm also sure that Brady has been developing all of his own game plans on offsense since entering the game against the Jets in '01. :rolleyes:

    Whew, glad we got that one out of the way, I was really starting to worry about all the "Brady is nothing without Belichick" talk I've been hearing. :rolleyes:
  15. TheComeback

    TheComeback Rookie

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    Everyone forgets the job Belichick did for the Giants as their defensive coordinator. His gameplans have shut down two of the greatest offenses ever--the Buffalo Bills of the 1990s, and the Rams of 2001. And he did both in the Superbowl. Tom Brady did not win either of those games--Bill Belichick's defenses did. He is definitely one of the greatest, if not the greatest, defensive coaches ever.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  16. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I do hope you just forgot the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] identifiers!

    I guess you did...(whoo, needed to read this a couple more times after I got my jaw off the floor. ;) )
  17. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hmm, I thought it was "Parcells is nothing without Belicheck." Well, add Brady to the list.
  18. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    #17 Jersey

    It takes someone who can execute the game plan put in place by the coaching staff to win games. Brady did that.

    Ask yourself this question: do they win three Super Bowls with Pete Carroll at the helm with Brady at quarterback?
  19. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    Exactly. They were a playoff team and then it fell apart when it was announced the team was moving the following season. I always thought Belichick got too much criticism considering he turned that team back into a playoff contender. They tanked the following year because of the fact they were moving to Baltimore. But the media in Cleveland hated him and I believe so did much of the national media. Whatever, it worked out just fine here :cool:
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  20. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    You guys are gonna love the Belichick transcript of today's PC.
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