Charger's OL--best in NFL--against Patriots' DL--best in the NFL

[State]

People don't realize how physical and tenacious the Charger OL is. They've got this year's best rookie playing LT--6'7" 336-LB Marcus McNeill--which will be an interesting matchup to watch going against Richard Seymour. The lanky center going against the beefy Wolfork. If there's one player who can dominate, I think, against this OL it's Ty Warren. Go, Ty!

People around here understandably have high hopes in our DL. But have you entertained the prospect that San Diego may win the war of the trenches? I haven't heard much discussion about the game's best offensive line. Why not?

To me that's the key of the game: San Diego's ability to create seams for LT to run through by controlling our DL. Can our linebackers--Are you going to play well, Vrabel?--react quickly enough and play disciplined, not overpursuing and sticking to their assignments?

Background: http://forums.chargers.com/archive/index.php/t-35432.html

It's going to be a great, physical matchup.

 

[Flying Fungi]

People don't realize how physical and tenacious the Charger OL is. They've got this year's best rookie playing LT--6'7" 336-LB Marcus McNeill--which will be an interesting matchup to watch going against Richard Seymour. The lanky center going against the beefy Wolfork. If there's one player who can dominate, I think, against this OL it's Ty Warren. Go, Ty!

People around here understandably have high hopes in our DL. But have you entertained the prospect that San Diego may win the war of the trenches? I haven't heard much discussion about the game's best offensive line. Why not?

To me that's the key of the game: San Diego's ability to create seams for LT to run through by controlling our DL. Can our linebackers--Are you going to play well, Vrabel?--react quickly enough and play disciplined, not overpursuing and sticking to their assignments?

Background: http://forums.chargers.com/archive/index.php/t-35432.html

It's going to be a great, physical matchup.

I'm not seeing the tremendous difference between SD's and NE's OL. SD averaged 30 more yds/game total offense over NE over the course of the season. Rivers was sacked 27 times v Brady's 26. SD was 6/11 on 4th down conversions v. NE's 16/20. Avg Time of Possession was nearly identical.

In terms of penalties, NE had 98 offensive penalties v. 90 for SD, and while the yardage difference is 150yds in favor of SD, I cannot identify which of these are attributable specifically to OL penalties. Even if all were OL penalties, that still accounts for less than 10yds or one holding call per game.

So no, I'm not blown away by SD's OL.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

I'm not seeing the tremendous difference between SD's and NE's OL. SD averaged 30 more yds/game total offense over NE over the course of the season. Rivers was sacked 27 times v Brady's 26. SD was 6/11 on 4th down conversions v. NE's 16/20. Avg Time of Possession was nearly identical.

In terms of penalties, NE had 98 offensive penalties v. 90 for SD, and while the yardage difference is 150yds in favor of SD, I cannot identify which of these are attributable specifically to OL penalties. Even if all were OL penalties, that still accounts for less than 10yds or one holding call per game.

So no, I'm not blown away by SD's OL.

Good perspective....

 

[JR4]

I agree state, it starts in the trenches.
Early signs may be watching PATs Dline and Chargers Oline. If it looks
like Chargers are knocking PATs guys back then that will not be
good for PATs. But if Wilfork is getting under Chargers lanky Center
and getting leverage that will be a bad sign for the Chargers.
We'll see.

 

[BTTA]

The Jets center Mangold is better than the SD center, and Wilfork had a great game. I expect at least the same from him Sunday.

 

[tssd888]

The Jets center Mangold is better than the SD center, and Wilfork had a great game. I expect at least the same from him Sunday.

I do agree that Wilfork has a big edge in this matchup. He is a tough guy to deal with and no doubt has the edge in most games.

however....lets not just go throwing things out there like the above statement. Mangold is not better than Hardwick. Hardwick is the backup center on the probowl roster this year. He is very good. Before any of you answer "we don't care about the pro bowl" let me say that in a case like this I think it does somewhat apply. 2/3 of pro bowl vote is players and coaches and it's not like the center position is a fan favorite with national stars.

regardless......Hardwick really has his work cut out for him this week.

 

[Deus Irae]

People don't realize how physical and tenacious the Charger OL is. They've got this year's best rookie playing LT--6'7" 336-LB Marcus McNeill--which will be an interesting matchup to watch going against Richard Seymour. The lanky center going against the beefy Wolfork. If there's one player who can dominate, I think, against this OL it's Ty Warren. Go, Ty!

People around here understandably have high hopes in our DL. But have you entertained the prospect that San Diego may win the war of the trenches? I haven't heard much discussion about the game's best offensive line. Why not?

To me that's the key of the game: San Diego's ability to create seams for LT to run through by controlling our DL. Can our linebackers--Are you going to play well, Vrabel?--react quickly enough and play disciplined, not overpursuing and sticking to their assignments?

Background: http://forums.chargers.com/archive/index.php/t-35432.html

It's going to be a great, physical matchup.

We touched upon this on another thread:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=293087&postcount=23

 

[DagoTom]

I'm not seeing the tremendous difference between SD's and NE's OL. SD averaged 30 more yds/game total offense over NE over the course of the season. Rivers was sacked 27 times v Brady's 26. SD was 6/11 on 4th down conversions v. NE's 16/20. Avg Time of Possession was nearly identical.

In terms of penalties, NE had 98 offensive penalties v. 90 for SD, and while the yardage difference is 150yds in favor of SD, I cannot identify which of these are attributable specifically to OL penalties. Even if all were OL penalties, that still accounts for less than 10yds or one holding call per game.

So no, I'm not blown away by SD's OL.

Look at our red-zone offense and you'll see the difference. Rushing touchdowns don't just happen.

You also forgot to mention; 4.9 YPC vs. 3.9 YPC. Our running backs average 5.4 YPC. If it wasn't for PR's immobility (1 YPC on 48 carries) we'd be averaging well over 5 YPC as a team.

 

[Deus Irae]

Look at our red-zone offense and you'll see the difference. Rushing touchdowns don't just happen.

You also forgot to mention; 4.9 YPC vs. 3.9 YPC. We have two backs averaging 5.2 YPC or better. If it wasn't for PR's immobility (1 YPC on 48 carries) we'd be averaging well over 5 YPC.

Feel free to go to footballoutsiders.com and check out their numbers for OL play. New England is better than San Diego in short yardage situations on 3rd and 4th down, for example. Nobody disputes the #1 rb matchup going to SD, so the yards per is a lot less impressive for the O-line of the Chargers.

 

[RayClay]

Objectively speaking, does everybody think the Chargers have the best OL?

I really don't know. The only line I can think of that made me say WOW was the KC line of a year or 2 ago.

I do think our 3 man DLine is second to none and people in the media just aren't
aware of it yet. And we are talking 5 on 3, so a great game by our troika opens up lots of stuff for the rest of the D.

 

[DagoTom]

Feel free to go to footballoutsiders.com and check out their numbers for OL play. New England is better than San Diego in short yardage situations on 3rd and 4th down, for example. Nobody disputes the #1 rb matchup going to SD, so the yards per is a lot less impressive for the O-line of the Chargers.

That's funny, since our top 3 running backs all average 4.8 YPC or better. But yeah, it's all Ladianian.

footballoutsiders also has us ranked as the #1 offensive line overall so not sure what your point is. LT is not an exceptional power-back in you guys have Corey Dillon, so that would explain your power numbers. But we're less likely to get stuffed for no gain or a loss too...

 

[AzPatsFan]

People don't realize how physical and tenacious the Charger OL is. They've got this year's best rookie playing LT--6'7" 336-LB Marcus McNeill--which will be an interesting matchup to watch going against Richard Seymour. The lanky center going against the beefy Wolfork. If there's one player who can dominate, I think, against this OL it's Ty Warren. Go, Ty!

People around here understandably have high hopes in our DL. But have you entertained the prospect that San Diego may win the war of the trenches? I haven't heard much discussion about the game's best offensive line. Why not?

To me that's the key of the game: San Diego's ability to create seams for LT to run through by controlling our DL. Can our linebackers--Are you going to play well, Vrabel?--react quickly enough and play disciplined, not over pursuing and sticking to their assignments?

Background: http://forums.chargers.com/archive/index.php/t-35432.html

It's going to be a great, physical matchup.

To call a line that has a rookie playing the most critical position of all the "greatest" is to show absolute ignorance. Especially when he faces the best DE/DT in the league. Yes, Ii know Hardwick made the pro bowl. Baloney, media hype and ballot box stuffing from fans new to winning.

Olivea facing Ty Warren is no better than Brandon Gorin. A fairly good pro but not anything to write home about. Goff is a good guard though.

Someday they might be great; now they are merely good.

You speak of our LBs not over pursuing?

Why not ask about the Chargers Defensive philosophy about that. They give up the run; they give up the pass. Yet they have great pass rush sack totals. Does that remind you of something? Its spelled O-V-E-R P-U-R-S-U-E. Thy name is Chargers Defense.

Seems to me, I remember loudmouth Joey Porter saying how no one could stop him. Remind you of 'Roids Boy? I recall how Freeney was such an unstoppable force as a pass rusher too. The Pats stopped both rather easily...

 

[lander]

The Charger D-line of Olshansky, Williams and Castillo is as good as any in the league.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's funny, since our top 3 running backs all average 4.8 YPC or better. But yeah, it's all Ladianian.

footballoutsiders also has us ranked as the #1 offensive line overall so not sure what your point is. LT is not an exceptional power-back in you guys have Corey Dillon, so that would explain your power numbers. But we're less likely to get stuffed for no gain or a loss too...

Your line is ranked #1 because of your running back. However, when push comes to shove, even with that MVP candidate, you're behind New England in getting the tough yards. Pass protection grades the two teams out as just about the same and, again, the Chargers have Tomlinson to skew the numbers in their favor, as he has to be accounted for at all times.

 

[tssd888]

Yes, Ii know Hardwick made the pro bowl. Baloney, medai hype and balot box stuffing from fans new to winning.

I do not think the pro bowl is the end all to be all mark of who's a better player but you classify it as if it's baseball all star balloting. Only 1/3 of the voting is done by the fans.

I'll say it again.....Hardwick is a very good center however he still is gonna have to play the game of his life on Sunday to prevent Wilfork from wreaking havoc.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Charger D-line of Olshansky, Williams and Castillo is as good as any in the league.

You go with that. The team you face this weekend has a better front 3.


This has been the problem with the media this week. Like you, they're just spouting platitudes without knowledge. Seymour, Wilfork and Warren is opposing you this week and you conveniently overlook that fact. Seymour is the best player on either line, Wilfork is playing dominant football, just as Williams is and, if you want Olshansky over Warren, I suggest you put down the peyote and enter a 12 step program.

 

[richpjr]

To call a line that has a rookie playing the most critical position of all the "greatest" is to show absolute ignorance. Especially when he faces the best DE/DT in the league.

You do realize that this rookie has allowed a grand total of 2 sacks while starting every game this year? I believe I read somewhere that he has not had a holding penalty called against him this season. And this with breaking both hands so bad he had plates inserted in them at different times this season (which could explain the no holding penalties!).

 

[State]

In an earlier post of ESPN/Scout subscriber content--
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=48004
San Diego has the advantage in most indices except coach and quarterback, including OL. No one seemed to disagree with that in that entry.

As a New Englander, I've seen the Charger OL. They're not as intelligent or versatile as the New England line. They do one thing better: run block.

The rookie is huge but light on his feet with a warrior's heart. He's the real deal. A starter since the first game, I think. The second coming of Anthony Muñoz? Time will tell, but I think so. He's undeniably had an incredible season.

Let me state it clearly: I think Marcus McNeill, the Charger LT, will have less trouble with Richard Seymour than Matt Light will have with Testosterone Boy.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Look at our red-zone offense and you'll see the difference. Rushing touchdowns don't just happen.

You also forgot to mention; 4.9 YPC vs. 3.9 YPC. Our running backs average 5.4 YPC. If it wasn't for PR's immobility (1 YPC on 48 carries) we'd be averaging well over 5 YPC as a team.

and you perhaps are overlooking 'our' red-zone defense:

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo_20070105_05pats.3167084.html

One of the strengths of the Patriots' defense has been in the red zone, and it has been all season. New England has given up just 12 red-zone touchdowns this year in 35 chances, one of the best percentages in the NFL.

Time and again, teams have driven the ball between the 20-yard lines against the Pats, but they have been shut down once in the red zone. Belichick has noted that with 22 players pushed into a smaller area, communication is key, as is every man knowing his job.

 

[AzPatsFan]

and you perhaps are overlooking 'our' red-zone defense:

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo_20070105_05pats.3167084.html

There is another part of the red zone defense seldom mentioned. Our admitted "bend don't break" seldom allows many teams to get TO the Red zone, in the first place.

Second fewest opponent's opportunities in the League. Opponents drives usually peter out even before the Red zone is reached. Its called F-U-N-D-A-M-E-N-T-A-L Defense.

Once there, however, the Red Zone Defensive stats are then still spectacular.