Branch,Moulds,Randel El,Davis,Dwight, #6

[mgteich]

SOME OF MY EARLY THOUGHTS ABOUT WIDE RECEIVERS

This is by far the #1 priority because there are exactly zero out of six positions that we can count on as filled for more this year.

1. We should try to extend Branch before we decide what to offer Givens.

2. We should offer a third for Moulds, rather than wait for a bidding war

3. Reggie Wayne is worth more to others

4. Randel El would be a solid fit, since he returns punts. Givens or Randel El would be great. My suspicion is that Givens will get $5M a year from someone else. If we have Branch extended and Moulds, I would rather have Randel El.

5. We should re-sign Davis. We should be able to develop him. He has much more potential than Johnson, Sam or Childress.

6. We should re-sign Dwight.

7. I think Brown is retiring.

8. We should be able to get #6 from Childress, Johnson and Sam.

BOTTOM LINE

There is a lot of work to do at wide receiver. However a trade, a free agent pick up, and a couple of minor re-signs should do the job.

 

[pats1]

How can we afford Moulds and Randel El...and still resign Davis and Dwight?

 

[tombonneau]

How can we afford Moulds and Randel El...and still resign Davis and Dwight?

I dont think either would break the bank. If traded for Moulds, not sure his cap #, but he could already be on a dummy year and will either be cut or restructured if so. Old "lost a step" wrs like Moulds are hardly a redhot commodity.

As for ARE, he'll command slightly above avg. #2 WR numbers, which again, will not be earth shattering. And he'll get that if he's lucky.

 

[pats1]

Moulds signed a $5.26 mil., 3 year deal in I think 2005, according to http://www.billsdaily.com/frontoffice/salarycap.shtml

Randle El had a cap numer just under $500 k, and is a free agent, but I'm sure the Steelers will want him back.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

SOME OF MY EARLY THOUGHTS ABOUT WIDE RECEIVERS

This is by far the #1 priority because there are exactly zero out of six positions that we can count on as filled for more this year.

1. We should try to extend Branch before we decide what to offer Givens.

2. We should offer a third for Moulds, rather than wait for a bidding war Trade a draft pick for a Free Agent?

3. Reggie Wayne is worth more to others

4. Randel El would be a solid fit, since he returns punts. Givens or Randel El would be great. My suspicion is that Givens will get $5M a year from someone else. If we have Branch extended and Moulds, I would rather have Randel El. I'd rather have Givens.

5. We should re-sign Davis. We should be able to develop him. He has much more potential than Johnson, Sam or Childress. He does have potential, but I like the way Childress ran his routes, he could be a nice complimentary receiver in the Troy Brown mould. He's already a better blocker then Davis.

6. We should re-sign Dwight.

7. I think Brown is retiring.

8. We should be able to get #6 from Childress, Johnson and Sam.

BOTTOM LINE

There is a lot of work to do at wide receiver. However a trade, a free agent pick up, and a couple of minor re-signs should do the job.

10 characters

 

[pats1]

Moulds isn't a free agent.

I checked for certain, he's locked up through 2007 with over 13 mil. over the next two seasons (2006-2007)

http://nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=23855

Here are Randle El's career salaries:

http://nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=33056

 

[patsfan13]

I think Davis will be back, BB made some comments in a post game press conf about Davis's good play on ST, alway good when you can do more than 1 thing, Same goes for Childress.

 

[mgteich]

I guess we have the start of a Childress fan club. That's fine. I'll have him at #6 next time I post. He is preferred by most to Johnson and Sam.

 

[dryheat44]

I kind of disagree that Andre Davis has potential. The guy has been a #1 receiver in the NFL. He's proven. Unless he has some Donald Hayes-like trouble learning the playbook, he'll be fine as a #2 receiver if Givens leaves. I don't think he's as effective in the slot, where he seemed to line up most of the time this year. Randle-El, Dwight, and Johnson are redundant. If we sign Randle-El, it is good because we won't need a #3 QB, go into the season with Brady, Cassel, and Randle-El. (Chris Redman is also signed). Bethel is cheap, so he could stick around, but Dwight's a free agent I don't expect to re-sign. Sam and Childress are in the mix, and I'm not sure Brown's going to retire. He's still our best slot receiver, although if we sign Randle-El, that will probably do it for Troy, and he can be a WR coach/emergency DB. I still think there's a good possibility we'll draft a day 1 WR as well. If I had to take a guess right now, I'd say the lineup looks like:

1. Branch
2. Davis
3. Randle-El
4. Rookie (Hass/Hagen?)
5. Childress
6. Sam

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm not an Andre Davis guy. I would like him cheap as a #4 WR. Unless I didn't see right, he looked stiff and unathletic. He didn't show the ability to do much more than run fly patterns as a WR.

I'd like to come out of this offseason with Branch at #1, Davis and Bethel at #4 and #5 and two new guys at #2 and #3. One of the new guys could be Givens as he's kind of gone until re-signed. We need a better #3 WR IMO unless we commit more to the two TE offense and they can both stay healthy.

On that note, don't be shocked if we draft another TE in the first 3 rounds. Graham is a UFA after next season and having a more athletic TE than Fauria would help the depth as Graham and Watson get dinged a lot, it seems. And, no, I'm not kidding. I wouldn't be shocked if we took a TE in the first round although I don't expect it.

 

[drew4008]

1. Branch
2. Davis
3. Randle-El
4. Rookie (Hass/Hagen?)
5. Childress
6. Sam

Just trying to get your idea of what round we'll draft WR...?

Hagan will likely go late 1st to early 2nd whereas Hass won't go until about the 4th or 5th.

 

[dryheat44]

Just trying to get your idea of what round we'll draft WR...?

Hagan will likely go late 1st to early 2nd whereas Hass won't go until about the 4th or 5th.

I know that's the dope now, but I'll be stunned if Hass doesn't go on day 1. He's not a speed guy, but if he runs a 4.55 or better, I think he could be the #3 WR off the board, or #4 or Chad Jackson comes out. If he's there when we draft in the 3rd round, we have to make that move. That's what's known in the business as a "steal".

 

[Digger44]

I kind of disagree that Andre Davis has potential. The guy has been a #1 receiver in the NFL. He's proven. Unless he has some Donald Hayes-like trouble learning the playbook, he'll be fine as a #2 receiver if Givens leaves. I don't think he's as effective in the slot, where he seemed to line up most of the time this year. Randle-El, Dwight, and Johnson are redundant. If we sign Randle-El, it is good because we won't need a #3 QB, go into the season with Brady, Cassel, and Randle-El. (Chris Redman is also signed). Bethel is cheap, so he could stick around, but Dwight's a free agent I don't expect to re-sign. Sam and Childress are in the mix, and I'm not sure Brown's going to retire. He's still our best slot receiver, although if we sign Randle-El, that will probably do it for Troy, and he can be a WR coach/emergency DB. I still think there's a good possibility we'll draft a day 1 WR as well. If I had to take a guess right now, I'd say the lineup looks like:

1. Branch
2. Davis
3. Randle-El
4. Rookie (Hass/Hagen?)
5. Childress
6. Sam

I am not comfy with this at all. if branch went down then you would have a core led by a 1.) very inexperienced in knowledge of our system. Just because Randel-El was good in Pitts does not mean he will pick up our system. You cannot leave Brady to lead a core who doesnt know where to be on the field accept for branch/2nd year davis. 2.) this core is too young. You cannot rely on 3 vets and and 3 rooks who havn't had much playing time. if one of the vets went down, no matter who, we would be screwed.

 

[drew4008]

I know that's the dope now, but I'll be stunned if Hass doesn't go on day 1. He's not a speed guy, but if he runs a 4.55 or better, I think he could be the #3 WR off the board, or #4 or Chad Jackson comes out. If he's there when we draft in the 3rd round, we have to make that move. That's what's known in the business as a "steal".

He's a system guy, and quite frankly I hope we don't even get him. Remember a guy named James Newson 2 years back? Had almost the same stats as Hass in the same system at Oregon St. and everyone said he would be a steal in the 4th because of it. He went undrafted after running somewhere around a 4.55. Stats can be quite meaningless in college, especially for some of these system WRs or QBs. I say we dish out the money and pick#21 and get Santonio Holmes if we want to go the WR route. I don't want to hope a later pick pans out.

 

[dryheat44]

I am not comfy with this at all. if branch went down then you would have a core led by a 1.) very inexperienced in knowledge of our system. Just because Randel-El was good in Pitts does not mean he will pick up our system. You cannot leave Brady to lead a core who doesnt know where to be on the field accept for branch/2nd year davis. 2.) this core is too young. You cannot rely on 3 vets and and 3 rooks who havn't had much playing time. if one of the vets went down, no matter who, we would be screwed.

OK. So what's the alternative? Keep Givens? Great, I'd love to see it. I think it's unlikely.

Bethel? He's been here four years. Does he know the system?

Brown? Can he lead the receiving corps?

Moulds? I wouldn't mind him. He's seen it all, but if your pre-requisite is knowledge of the Pats offense, he doesn't qualify either.

I agree there's a lack of experience in the Pats system. But I'm willing to bet Randle-El, a former quarterback, can pick it up okay. I think a WR from another organization can be plugged into the Patriots easier than any other position. And there's always the tight ends.

 

[dryheat44]

He's a system guy, and quite frankly I hope we don't even get him. Remember a guy named James Newson 2 years back? Had almost the same stats as Hass in the same system at Oregon St. and everyone said he would be a steal in the 4th because of it. He went undrafted after running somewhere around a 4.55. Stats can be quite meaningless in college, especially for some of these system WRs or QBs. I say we dish out the money and pick#21 and get Santonio Holmes if we want to go the WR route. I don't want to hope a later pick pans out.

On the other hand, not that I'm a professional scout, but I didn't want Newson as a street free agent. He was lazy. We'll see. To me comparing him to Newson makes as much sense as comparing him to Chad Johnson. To answer your original question, we should draft a WR whenever it's the greatest value. If Hagen is there in trade-up range of the second round, I'm all for grabbing him.

 

[Digger44]

OK. So what's the alternative? Keep Givens? Great, I'd love to see it. I think it's unlikely.

Bethel? He's been here four years. Does he know the system?

Brown? Can he lead the receiving corps?

Moulds? I wouldn't mind him. He's seen it all, but if your pre-requisite is knowledge of the Pats offense, he doesn't qualify either.

I agree there's a lack of experience in the Pats system. But I'm willing to bet Randle-El, a former quarterback, can pick it up okay. I think a WR from another organization can be plugged into the Patriots easier than any other position. And there's always the tight ends.

I think Bethel is gone. Brown should retire. notice that I had 2 pre-requisites in the post. The difference with Moulds is that he at least is not experienced on the field of play. If he gets lost in the system he could use his instinct to find a hole. Here is what I hope for, but it may not be realistic due to $$$. I don't know.
1. Branch
2. Randle-El
3. Moulds
4. Davis
5. Childress
6. rook/Sam
If not Moulds then we need a solid vet to help out with experience. I don't disagree with Randle-El most likely picking up the system well enough, he seems like a bright guy. The issue is that of injury and leadership. you can't have an injury make your rookies the majority.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

$5mil/yr is WAY too much to spend on Givens......

 

[pats1]

How are we supposed to get Moulds? Trade?

 

[Digger44]

How are we supposed to get Moulds? Trade?

Most NFL analysts agree that Moulds will be a cap casualty.