Bill Simmons "hears" that Moss and AD are gone, BB is "blowing it up"

[vandergraafgenerator]

Re: Bill Simmons article - "What he hears"

I really can't see Belichick "dumping" Moss just like that. It's the media and some folks around here that have been unhappy with him, Belichick has gone out of his way to praise him almost all year.

Why not?, he dumped Seymour and Vrabel

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Wish it were true but Moss is Brady's binky and "Tommy" would be unhappy if his favorite dog went to the pound. The Patriots are a couple of retooling years away from being a legit SB threat once again so let Brady have his binky for one more year and then be done with Moss. He's shown us why he's never won anything in the NFL, i.e. plays big in small games and small in big games.

 

[oldskool138]

He's shown us why he's never won anything in the NFL, i.e. plays big in small games and small in big games.

A big game is usually played against equal or better competition correct? So, logically, the defensive scheme or defenders are going to be better on a good team as opposed to a bad or average one.

Obviously, he's going to have more success against teams who can't cover him than he is against teams that have good secondary....and Tom also needs time to throw.

 

[mb6592]

What makes you so sure that Welker knows what you're talking about and Moss doesn't? Last time I checked, Moss caught a TD in the super bowl...

I didn't say Moss didn't. I'm just not sure about him (where it's obvious that Welker is an intense machine).

 

[mb6592]

I don't want Moss gone if he wasn't a significant locker room problem. That doesn't mean we shouldn't acknowledge that there were issues with the man this season.

Exactly. The Moss situation is a non-issue really. If his being hurt was the reason he appeared to disappear in the big games this season, he will be back. If his sulking led to a lack of production, he'll most certainly be gone.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bill Simmons article - "What he hears"

Why not?, he dumped Seymour and Vrabel

Seymour he didn't dump, obviously. Vrabel had a lot less left than Randy does.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Now since you want to take away Moss' 2 best TD games, we'll do that for every one else

Take away? When did I say they shouldn't count? All I asked what an average to good receiver would in Moss's place, I'm trying to find out what we get from Moss that we couldn't get from other players. Again, stats can often be misleading, if you look at a lot of Colts highlights you don't necessarily see spectacular play by Manning, he's making easy throws to open receivers, so there's a combination of a well designed play, good separation by the receiver, a solid throw, and perhaps bad defense.

So, is Moss outstanding or was he in a very good position to succeed?

Yet again, depending on what could be gotten in trade for Moss it might very well be a good idea, or do you think no trade for Moss could be worth it?

 

[State]

"separation" and "Moss" won't be used much next season unless it includes "lack of."

He's lost most of his burst. What is he, 33? It happens.

 

[Snake Eyes]

He's lost most of his burst. What is he, 33? It happens.

If they could get a 2nd for Moss and use it on Golden Tate I'd take that deal.

 

[emoney_33]

Well, since I didn't claim that it was ONLY Moss that was the intended target, you've just taken what I said and twisted it. In other words, you're doing precisely what you claim I was doing, and in the very same post where you're complaining about me allegedly do it.

I'm done with you.

Be done with me, you are a clown. I've never once heard you bring up that "call out" after the Chargers game EXCEPT in reference to Moss bashing. And then when people try to bring that to your attention, or put things in perspective you just cry out red herring and go on your merry ignorant way. Faulk was called out, RICHARD SEYMOUR was called out, Welker was called out.

 

[Matw]

I'll be shocked if Brady lets Moss get kicked off the team...

 

[emoney_33]

Now since you want to take away Moss' 2 best TD games, we'll do that for every one else

Take away? When did I say they shouldn't count? All I asked what an average to good receiver would in Moss's place, I'm trying to find out what we get from Moss that we couldn't get from other players. Again, stats can often be misleading, if you look at a lot of Colts highlights you don't necessarily see spectacular play by Manning, he's making easy throws to open receivers, so there's a combination of a well designed play, good separation by the receiver, a solid throw, and perhaps bad defense.

An average to good receiver is not getting 13 TD, they aren't getting 3 TD against any team, and they aren't drawing double teams. They aren't doing nearly as much as a Moss to help your team.

In your comment that STATS are misleading you talk about watching highlights...?

So, is Moss outstanding or was he in a very good position to succeed?

The fact that you question this shows that you aren't paying attention. Obviously Moss is outstanding. Unless you feel that opposing defenses gameplan around him and double team him just for fun.

Yet again, depending on what could be gotten in trade for Moss it might very well be a good idea, or do you think no trade for Moss could be worth it?

There's not a single player that has no value in hypothetical trade world. Of course if someone were to offer a trade that was of more value than Moss production + salary then you take it. However you can say that about any player on any team accross the NFL. It's unlikely that anyone would offer enough for Moss and he's not a player that you go aggressively shop around. I still think he stays here past 2010.

 

[emoney_33]

He's lost most of his burst. What is he, 33? It happens.

If they could get a 2nd for Moss and use it on Golden Tate I'd take that deal.

a 2nd for Randy Moss? Did you really just say that.

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Bill Simmons article - "What he hears"

I really can't see Belichick "dumping" Moss just like that. It's the media and some folks around here that have been unhappy with him, Belichick has gone out of his way to praise him almost all year.

O.K. Moss haters, tell me who can we get to replace 83 receptions, 13 TDs and 1,400 yards? You Cousins are all nuts. O.K. Randy had an "off" year even with those numbers...Huh? What would are record have been without him? He played hurt all year. Maybe the Colts will trade Reggie Wayne for AD? How about Fitzgerald even up for Maroney? How about Calvin Johnson for a lower pick?

The big difference with Moss and some of these other malcontents is that Moss loves the game. In Oakland he felt like he was in jail.

Get a little bit better running game, a much better defense and TB be back to the real TB. I saw TB miss a wide open Moss how many times this year...10-15 times? Most of all a number three receiver who can so damage. Edelman is your #4 and a good one. Most likely will be the slot again early 2010 until Welker is 100%. Tate is going to be another Chad Jackson only more stupid (Mr. herbious weedious just prior to the combine, stupid).
I can't believe that picking him was not hyped to BB at the last minute. He would have lasted lower rounds for sure.

Yes I would spend a decent pick to get Bolden. He has HEART.
I think that is key. Even though Stallworth was not the pick we thought (remember how giddy we were when we signed him as our new #1 WR until Draft day when we got Moss?). Stallworth brought the "threat" of the big play and the Safety could not slide over to Moss. Hence the superb 2007 passing attack. Now you can get even a DE to play pass underneath Aiken, Stanback and the others. Galloway was supposed to draw the Safety but he couldn't even run a route.

You won't see the Pats go for Marshall after all the AD merriment. Jackson and Austin aren't going anywhere. Walter, Avant and Floyd are decent but won't draw a Safety. I would take them but not as much as I would want Bolden.

The wild card is Lee Evans. He has burner speed and can run routes. Do the other teams slide the Safety to Randy and leave Lee Evans alone?

As scary as it sounds, do you take a one or two year flyer on T.O. while you draft a WR in the lower second round like Golden Tate (maybe gone) or Eric Decker to wait while he develops? Would any NFL team play T.O. all game one on one? T.O. was a good soldier in Buffalo without a real passing game. One or two years in NE for another shot at a ring would help his battered legacy.....I don't think that is too far fetched and he is still in great shape. I could see 50+ catches and 8 or more TDs for T.O. in 2010 with the Pats and TB. Wouldn't he help if Welker is still on the end for most of 2010.

DW Toys

 

[Matw]

I still can't believe there are Pats fans that want to see Moss go.

If Randy wasn't on the team, Welker wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as he has been for us. He helps Tom out tremendously in regards to reading opposing defenses. He is a touchdown machine, has great chemistry with our QB and has shown the ability to understand complex offensive strategies.

Just because our Offensive Coordinator couldn't work out how to get him the ball this season people want to talk about Moss being done? Children please.

 

[celticboy04]

Greetings,
Bill Simmons is a writer who mixes in a lot of parody in his writing and sometimes when he looses himself his articles can become downright silly.
Shalom,
Celticboy04

 

[upstater1]

a 2nd for Randy Moss? Did you really just say that.

So, you're saying you'd trade him for a second rounder?

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

people are being too emotional. be objective and take your love or hate for moss out of the equation. now im a moss fan but im also a realist.

at 33, hes starting to lose some burst and speed, which has always been his best asset. hes not a physical player. he doesnt like to be jammed at the line and doesnt like to go over the middle of the field. he is taken out of games too easily vs good aggressive defenses or a team that has a great man to man cover corner like revis and bailey . he hasnt done anything in the playoffs. he was decent vs the giants on that last drive but thats it.

and dont give me the double team crap. big time players play big in big time games. if youre a great wr, you find ways to get open. i'd rather have a guy like marshall vjax or boldin who will fight to get open and go over the middle.

everyone always says oh well they are shading a safety on moss. almost every #1 wr is shaded by a safety, yet guys like fitzgerald marshall andre etc actually have the drive to fight through coverag and onions to go over the middle of the field.

 

[Deus Irae]

people are being too emotional. be objective and take your love or hate for moss out of the equation. now im a moss fan but im also a realist.

at 33, hes starting to lose some burst and speed, which has always been his best asset. hes not a physical player. he doesnt like to be jammed at the line and doesnt like to go over the middle of the field. he is taken out of games too easily vs good aggressive defenses or a team that has a great man to man cover corner like revis and bailey . he hasnt done anything in the playoffs. he was decent vs the giants on that last drive but thats it.

and dont give me the double team crap. big time players play big in big time games. if youre a great wr, you find ways to get open. i'd rather have a guy like marshall vjax or boldin who will fight to get open and go over the middle.

everyone always says oh well they are shading a safety on moss. almost every #1 wr is shaded by a safety, yet guys like fitzgerald marshall andre etc actually have the drive to fight through coverag and onions to go over the middle of the field.

The sad part about the "double team" defense is that there were times when he couldn't be guarded even with triple teams in 2007. Now, in 2009, teams could single cover him at times. How much of that is on Brady, how much was play calling, how much was injury, how much was effort and how much was ability erosion is what needs to be determined by the coaching staff.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I'm amazed reading this thread that no one remembers Week 3 against Atlanta. Randy had 10 catches for 116.

Apart from him, the WRs were Edelman and Galloway (remember him!). Randy pretty much put the team on his back, making crucial short catches under intense pressure, despite Brady's rustiness and lack of accuracy. He may have had problems later, for whatever reason, but that was a great game in which he took a lot of punishment.