Belichick interview with Armen Keteyian on CBS News [mergedx4]

[nelly57]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

A great deal of NFL fans are casual fans. The same could be said about the media by the way many seem to be constantly misinformed. When these people see phrases like, stealing isn't illegal, or stealing isn't cheating, it's easy to understand how they get confused and mislead. I propose thay we drop the word stealing from any text that relates to the issues at hand. These signs weren't stolen. They were recorded and could have been recorded by anybody. I have seen signs broadcast on television during games. Saying someone stole signs is akin to saying they stole sunshine. I'm not singling you out BradyManny. This has been done by many of us a great many times.

Bingo! Thats why the commish was saying "scouting" the signals. The dufus could have called out the gang in front of him last week and further emphasize that is was a rule violation that was ambiguous up to 2006. All of this would have been cleared away.

The clown had to grandstand during his press conference saying he didn't buy BB's explanation, then why did he allow the 2006 memo to circulate? Truly an idiot.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Bingo! Thats why the commish was saying "scouting" the signals. The dufus could have called out the gang in front of him last week and further emphasize that is was a rule violation that was ambiguous since 2006. All of this would have been cleared away.

The clown had to grandstand during his press conference saying he didn't buy BB's explanation, then why did he allow the 2006 memo to circulate? Truly an idiot.

Better yet, why is he trying to REDEFINE a clearly written (but ambiguous) rule in the constitution and by-laws with a memo, instead of going through the proper channel and MODIFYING the official rule in the by-laws to more actually reflect HIS interpretation.

Answer: Cause he can't. It would have to go through the approval process which passes it out of his hands. That memo is more restrictive then the actual coding in the C&B, so as a matter of rule, so it really has NO teeth (or shouldn't), because a memo can only clarify, NOT ADD RESTRICTIONS to a codified set of rules. A "memo" certainly should not be used as the guiding principal in determining right and wrong doing, the actual rule should be. If it was, then there CERTAINLY was enough of a loophole that made BB believe that he could do it. It makes his "in plain sight" explanation all that more plausible.

I would bet that sometime in the next season, quietly, you will see that the rule in the C&B will be amended to be more specific. In a court of law (instead of the private fiefdom of the NFL), BB and Kraft would have had a perfect avenue for appeal.

 

[Gunnails]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Wow, no horns, no evil laugh, no next question.

BB came off very good, kinda, almost, like-able and truthful.

I think we are getting closer to putting this whole episode behind us, and that would be a good thing.

 

[nelly57]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Better yet, why is he trying to REDEFINE a clearly written (but ambiguous) rule in the constitution and by-laws with a memo, instead of going through the proper channel and MODIFYING the official rule in the by-laws to more actually reflect HIS interpretation.

Answer: Cause he can't. It would have to go through the approval process which passes it out of his hands. That memo is more restrictive then the actual coding in the C&B, so as a matter of rule, so it really has NO teeth (or shouldn't), because a memo can only clarify, NOT ADD RESTRICTIONS to a codified set of rules. A "memo" certainly should not be used as the guiding principal in determining right and wrong doing, the actual rule should be. If it was, then there CERTAINLY was enough of a loophole that made BB believe that he could do it. It makes his "in plain sight" explanation all that more plausible.

Bingo! we have another winner.

Technically and logically that's the valid point BB was trying to use. How can teams compete on a level playing feild when they don't know if memos supercedes existing rules and perhaps there will be more memos to supercede other memos. Soon it becomes, I'm the commish and because I say so.

IMO, the heavy handed approach Goodell is using would be an interesting article. IIRC, Brady got tag with a 10K-15K fine for not wearing his chin strap properly. Too bad the national reporters won't touch it, else they would shut off from the information source.

 

[TNTitan]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Wow, no horns, no evil laugh, no next question.

BB came off very good, kinda, almost, like-able and truthful.

I think we are getting closer to putting this whole episode behind us, and that would be a good thing.

Truthful? Anything sounds truthful after getting busted this week by commish. Did'nt know it was against the rules? Ya right. What he is, is a liar trying to save face.
Simple as that.

 

[JoePats]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Did'nt know it was against the rules? Ya right.

Prove it.

Because BB can prove that there was no decption involved, which you would think would exist if there was intentional rule breaking. He can also prove that other coaches knew exactly what they were doing and felt that it was no big deal.

 

[rabthepat]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Prove it.

Because BB can prove that there was no decption involved, which you would think would exist if there was intentional rule breaking. He can also prove that other coaches knew exactly what they were doing and felt that it was no big deal.

Bill Clinton could sure have used you guys to help explain the definition of "IS" and "SEX" when he got in trouble with Monica.

Bill Belichick ignored the Sept. 2006 memo at his and the Patriot's own peril. The man referred to all of us as the "Genius" knew what he was doing and did it anyways. He was not friendly to the media and had a cold persona so he got no mercy when he got caught.

What keeps this issue fermenting on this message board are the Bill "Apologists". Accept what was done and move on.

 

[nelly57]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Truthful? Anything sounds truthful after getting busted this week by commish. Did'nt know it was against the rules? Ya right. What he is, is a liar trying to save face.
Simple as that.

If you're going to troll, at least use accurate information; the PATs didn't get busted last week, they got caught on the violation (based on a memo) on sept/07.

What happen last week vindicates the coach that no walkthru taping occurred.

 

[TNTitan]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Prove it.

Because BB can prove that there was no decption involved, which you would think would exist if there was intentional rule breaking. He can also prove that other coaches knew exactly what they were doing and felt that it was no big deal.

lol...own up to it. My cousin is a Pats season ticket holder. If he can you can. You have great coach who didnt have to cheat but did. He lied about it, got caught and is not trying to save face. Simple as that.

 

[JoePats]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

lol...own up to it. My cousin is a Pats season ticket holder. If he can you can. You have great coach who didnt have to cheat but did. He lied about it, got caught and is not trying to save face. Simple as that.

I'll take that as an "I can't."

 

[chech1965]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Somehow this has to be re-aired by a major media outlet.

Wonder if they'll stick it on 60 Minutes.

:rocker:

 

[SVN]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

Better yet, why is he trying to REDEFINE a clearly written (but ambiguous) rule in the constitution and by-laws with a memo, instead of going through the proper channel and MODIFYING the official rule in the by-laws to more actually reflect HIS interpretation.

Answer: Cause he can't. It would have to go through the approval process which passes it out of his hands. That memo is more restrictive then the actual coding in the C&B, so as a matter of rule, so it really has NO teeth (or shouldn't), because a memo can only clarify, NOT ADD RESTRICTIONS to a codified set of rules. A "memo" certainly should not be used as the guiding principal in determining right and wrong doing, the actual rule should be. If it was, then there CERTAINLY was enough of a loophole that made BB believe that he could do it. It makes his "in plain sight" explanation all that more plausible.

I would bet that sometime in the next season, quietly, you will see that the rule in the C&B will be amended to be more specific. In a court of law (instead of the private fiefdom of the NFL), BB and Kraft would have had a perfect avenue for appeal.

BB's hands are tied. he cant come out and say that the rule overrides the memo because it means he is going against the league and commissioner.
simple as that. and no one in the media or otherwise wants to say that fact.

 

[SVN]

Re: PFT is perplexed at BB's interview

Send it to Florio. That's awesome. Technology these days!

guess what he will say ? That pats were using this !

 

[BradyManny]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

I think that we have inadvertently lead people astray in some of our attempts to enlighten about what actually happened. A great deal of NFL fans are casual fans. The same could be said about the media by the way many seem to be constantly misinformed. When these people see phrases like, stealing isn't illegal, or stealing isn't cheating, it's easy to understand how they get confused and mislead. I propose thay we drop the word stealing from any text that relates to the issues at hand. These signs weren't stolen. They were recorded and could have been recorded by anybody. I have seen signs broadcast on television during games. Saying someone stole signs is akin to saying they stole sunshine. I'm not singling you out BradyManny. This has been done by many of us a great many times.

A fair point. But I think anyone who really looks at the phrase "stealing signals" and associates it with cheating must have no exposure to sports or athletics at any stage. I can remember trying to figure out what plays a point guard was calling way back when I was playing basketball in 4th grade. It's part of every sport I know of. Frankly, I don't even think of cheating as a dirty word.

You do what you have to do to win, basketball is the only sport I have experience playing at any competitive level, but in that sport, you throw elbows down low when the refs aren't looking, get away with fouls at any and every opportunity, exaggerate contact, etc., etc. If we're going to call stealing plays cheating, then those things are, too, in which case, cheating goes on every play of every game in just about every sport.

F**k the "integrity of the game", some phrase obviously made up by someone who never stepped on a playing field, you're out there to win. I honestly can't tell you one athlete or coach who seriously gives a shyt about ethics during the playing of a game. Except for Saint Tony Dungy, of course...

Bottom line - I don't immediately see phrases like cheating or stealing signals as dirty words - you gotta look at things on a case by case basis, because these keywords are meaningless in sports.

 

[Gunnails]

Re: Belichick interview with Armen Keteyian on CBS News [mergedx2]

I wish Barbara Walters had done the interview.

She would of asked him about the status of his relationship with Mangini.

Then she would of made him cry.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

The likely reality here isn't that hard to understand:

1) Belichick taped the sidelines within the framework of the letter of the constitution/bylaws. He understood the intent of the rule was to prevent using technology (audio or video) to invade the opposing sideline. By using standard video equipment and not using the information in the same game, he was on the right side of the line the league didn't want anyone to cross.

2) Belichick knew that the taping could be frowned upon by the league and opposing teams. When his video guys were told to leave, they left. Belichick didn't challenge the opposing teams to keep his guys taping. There was no directive to hide the taping, but I'm sure the video guys are told not to make their activities obvious given that opposing teams may raise a stink about it.

3) Belichick knows about opposing teams activities that are significantly worse than sideline video. He has even filed complaints about some of them. The league consistently had no appetite to even investigate these activities...much less discourage or punish them. This is the seed planted in Belichick's mind that would become important later.

4) After the GB and Detroit incidents and subsequent memo, Belichick is now seeing the injustice toward his team. Other teams and their shady operations are tolerated but his filming activities (operating within the letter and intent of the rules) are open to public scorn. Now he is ready to pick a fight and emotions start to override his judgement.

Side note - At this point, Belichick escalates his personal battle with the league and forgets that he represents the Kraft family, the coaches, players and NE fanbase. I believe he was willing to put his reputation and money on the line...but I also believe he truly regrets the collateral damage.

5) After getting bounced out of the playoffs by Indy in the super-warm, super-loud dome, Belichick is pushed over the edge. It doesn't matter if you or I think Indy did anything wrong...I'm sure Belichick can't believe his team, many of them sick, had to play in 80 degree temperatures in January. His guys cramping up all over the field, obviously not hydrated enough. The Colts amazingly well hydrated and able to run all over the field in the 2nd half. At this point Belichick couldn't care less about what the league thinks about his video operations. In his mind, "gamesmanship" had just cost his team a shot at history.

6) Belichick knows the Jets are well aware of the Pats taping and it would be very easy to just avoid taping the Jets in NY. However, Belichick has just had the prize taken out of his cracker jacks and isn't going to back down to anyone now...particularly Mangini. If the Jets raise an issue with the league, the NFL will have to explain why its rules only seem to apply to the Pats and nobody else. Belichick welcomes that fight.

This is where the situation falls apart. The tape is confiscated, the media grabs onto the story as a cheating scandal and Goodell (still finding his way in his job) feels obligated to give the media its pound of flesh to preserve league integrity. A perfect storm that Belichick didn't anticipate. Belichick didn't get the personal battle he was prepared to fight. He brought Kraft's pride and joy into a situation that was both unexpected and unacceptable from a business and personal perspective.

Looking at the situation in this context, Belichick's statements are both accurate and very close to complete. The only part missing is that he really did understand that the league wouldn't openly approve of the taping. He believed he had the letter and intent of the rule on his side and past league inaction on such issues make the activity implicitly accepted.

Belichick is guilty of being human and letting emotion drive him to the point where his actions hurt people he really cared about. The league office drove him to that point. That doesn't necessarily get him forgiveness for his actions, but it should be enough for some understanding.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Belichick interview with Armen Keteyian on CBS News [mergedx3]

The thread is now the topic of a really dumb thread over at the colts forum. One poster is encouraging having a forum war.

http://forum.colts.com/showthread.php?t=30963

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

lol...own up to it. My cousin is a Pats season ticket holder. If he can you can. You have great coach who didnt have to cheat but did. He lied about it, got caught and is not trying to save face. Simple as that.

obviously, being a titan fan, you're a novice when it comes to football. they've been around all of what? 10 years. in boston, we refer to novices as "pink hats". you're definitely a pink hat. anyone who thinks what the pats did is unusual is a pink hat. jeff fisher and tony dungy need to get together and fix some more games.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: Belichick interview with Armen Keteyian on CBS News [mergedx3]

Metaphors,

You had me with point 1, 2, & 3, then you lost me. I really don't think that BB was looking to pick a fight (he would know he would lose). I honestly beleive he made a HUGE miscalculation on one point and one point only. As I outlined in THIS POST, I think he thought he had a better leg to stand on then he actually did.

It stands to reason that ANY logical and rational person would believe that the CODIFIED rules in the Constitution and By-laws HAVE to be the guiding principal here. Call me naive, but I believe that he tossed those memo's to the side and essentially said "These are inconsistent with the rules of the of this game as stated in the Constitution and By-laws, I don't need to worry about it".

He knew sooner of later, he'd get called on them and he be able say "I wasn't using them in game, the end". Technically, he should be right. the letter of the law is what is CODIFIED, which essentially means voted and accepted. Any memo can be used to clarify a codified law, but this one CLEARLY further defined the law. IT CAN'T (not in any legal framework anyway). Had he knew it would spiral out of control like this, he would have scraped it, for sure.

Using an extreme example, it'd be like taking a Murder law that reads

1) It is unlawful to take the life of another person intentionally.

and having the mayor send a note to the chief of police that says.

Hey Chief,

It is unlawful to take the life of another person intentionally, unless they sufficiently piss you off. Have a nice day

Of course, this is the fiefdom of the NFL, and Goodell can apparently do anything he want, and as someone pointed out, BB and Kraft can't do d!ck about it. I beleive they are reaching the end of that point though

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: BB interview - 15 min version

obviously, being a titan fan, you're a novice when it comes to football. they've been around all of what? 10 years. in boston, we refer to novices as "pink hats". you're definitely a pink hat. anyone who thinks what the pats did is unusual is a pink hat. jeff fisher and tony dungy need to get together and fix some more games.

Which is a much more grievous offense then taping signals if you ask the fans of Cleveland, or the cops in Las Vegas.