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Belichick Blaming Rules Shortening Off Season Workouts For Increased Injuries

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by Fencer, Dec 23, 2013.

  1. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Injuries to top players

    There have been badly injured teams before, with top players among those injured, who have wound up doing well. But this HAS gotten ridiculous.

    While we can all disagree a little on ranking the Patriot players by importance, the following isn't too far off, and is supported by salaries, accolades and so on.

    Brady -- healthy*
    Gronkowski -- IR
    Wilfork -- IR
    Ch. Jones -- healthy*
    Mayo -- IR
    Talib -- in and out of lineup**
    Mankins -- healthy*
    Solder -- scary injured
    Vollmer -- IR
    McCourty -- has been healthy*, but hit hard today
    Vereen -- in and out of the lineup**
    Amendola -- in and out of the lineup**

    *healthy = recognizing that every player gets banged up.
    ** in-and-out of the lineup = banged up even more than is normal even when you do play

    Of those 12 guys, the count is

    3 -- healthy
    4 -- IR
    3 -- in and out of the line-up
    2 -- healthy until recently, but now has a head injury

    And the story doesn't get much better on the next tier -- Ninkovich is healthy, Kelly is on IR, Arrington & Dennard have been in and out of the line-up ...

    The Patriots can pretty literally claim to be playing at 50% strength.
    And yet they are one of the top teams in the league.

    By the way -- by "one of the top" I mean 4th or so. Seattle, Carolina, and Denver all have reasonable claims to be ranked over the Patriots. To a lesser extent, so do the Bengals and Colts. But that's it.
  2. SVN

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  3. Lavictoire

    Lavictoire Rookie

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    Re: Belichick questions NFL offseason workout limits

    Teams should work around the limits somehow if it can be done legally. Have "voluntary" camps and workouts and put bonus incentives in their contracts for participating in extra training voluntarily. Even if a player doesn't want to work out he will do it to keep up with players competing for his job.

    I think they also need to seriously look at diet, nutrition, and vitamin and mineral supplementation.
  4. PatriotDynasty_12

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    Re: Belichick questions NFL offseason workout limits

    He's absolutely right. Every week now it seems like there is a major, impact player going down with a torn ACL or something along those lines. It's disgusting that the NFL is even trying to say there is "no evidence" to back that claim....really? Just look at the ******* injury numbers over the last 2 seasons.
  5. Whitt25

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    Re: Belichick questions NFL offseason workout limits

    Never liked the idea of having a limit on practice, offseason and during the season. How do you put a limit on practice – the only way for players (especially rookies) to improve their abilities and get used to being tackled before a real game?
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bill Belichick of New England Patriots questions NFL offseason workout limits - ESPN Boston

    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  7. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I've been preaching this for months. So many fans backed this move though which baffled me. We had NO full kitted sessions prior to the regular season. NONE.

    How the hell us that good for player safety?

    You think the league wrecks the game by being too strict on hits? This rule was pushed on the NFL and its owners b the players....and they're paying for it.
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do not doubt BB, but always thought that there was a correlation between extending the season(playoffs) and subsequent injuries the following year.

    The new CBA allows something like only 4 "hitting" practices after the season commences....

    To the best of my knowledge there has never been a longitudinal study on this subject....
  9. Jackson 2

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    #12 Jersey

    I think the lack of a longitudinal study is due to the fact that the current rules have been in effect for a short period of time resulting in a lack of sufficient data. It's an interesting theory.
  10. varjao

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    #3 Jersey

    overtraining and undertraining, 2 dangerous things.
  11. convertedpatsfan

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    #12 Jersey

    It's hard to find decent injury info but FWIW, the NFLPA put together a report up to 2010 outlining an increase in injuries, which looks like it started around 2007:

    http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/data/Dangers-of-the-Game-Report-Esquire.pdf

    A few points:

    - This was right before the lockout began, so there's a certain bias that may come into the way this was done.
    - the OP's link states there are 287 current players on IR, the lowest since 2008. There's still a week left, but should be below the high of 353 in 2010 which was before the new rules took effect.
    - concussion numbers are significantly up since 2007, but that may be due to more awareness. Prior to that, concussions may not have been reported.
    - an alternate theory on concussions is the increase in passing. It's interesting that the number of players on IR and concussions reported spiked in 2007 and have stayed high. Hard-hitting safeties or going low may also increase some of those numbers, whereas with more runs, they're not getting a 15-yard straight run before smacking a guy.

    So I don't know if it's really just the lack of off-season workouts. I think it does play a part, but I wouldn't suggest it is the whole reason for it. There are probably several different factors, and sometimes it's just sheer bad luck like the case of Vollmer.
  12. IcyPatriot

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    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  13. BradyFTW!

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    On the bright side, this is one of the few recent rule changes that wasn't brought on by owners trying to milk the cash cow for more money. If this narrative gets traction among the players--the ones who pushed for it in the first place--they will be amenable to reversing the practice limitations.

    If the owners were making money off this rule change, conversely, I'd expect that it would be here to stay no matter the consequences.
  14. TheBostonStraggler

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    BB isn't prone to knee jerk, visceral comments. He's probably one of the more plodding human beings you will know/be aware of. For example his team has suffered an oddly high number of injuries, so he lashes out in anger/frustration with unsubstantiated claims. BB is just not prone to that kind of thing (he has no business being near a gameday thread :)).

    While he isn't always right, obviously, if he speaks football, listen. If he says league offseason rule changes are affecting the physical preparedness of players, take notice. It's very likely there is underlying logic to the claim, evidence to support the claim and a good shot at it being right.
  15. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Amen brother. (and that goes to Belichick too!)

    Even in the first few weeks of the season the injuries seemed higher than normal. I made a similar comment at the time - that the NFLPA did their players no favors by limiting the number of mandatory practices.

    These guys are supposed to be professionals but give a guy $50 million guaranteed and he can suddenly be less motivated to self-monitor his conditioning.

    I understand that the NFLPA is controlled by its players, and most players would prefer to practice less, but for their members own good, it may be wise to allow the organizations that invested $50 million in such players to be the ones required to ensure top conditioning for their investments.

    That'd be a win/win/win - for the healthier players, for better and more talented teams, and for the game itself.
  16. PittPatriot

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    Well, as far as "severe" injuries go (season ending stuff) - ACL injuries are down per this published report from ESPN.


    NFL says ACL injuries are down through 13 weeks this season - ESPN
  17. JoeSixPat

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    I'd love to see a more comprehensive listing of injuries - not just ACLs or IR injuries, perhaps focused on starters.

    Based just on the eyeball test I haven't gotten the impression that the quality of play as of September is not what it used to be, and obviously this year a lot of starters have gone down (as opposed to the 2nd string guys who tear an ACL in practice)

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