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Bedard: Forget the Bills game...The Season Starts Now

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  1. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Forget the Bills, the season starts now - Patriots - Boston.com

    Good rah rah article but sometimes I don't understand Greg's approach to the teams moves......last week he gets negative in an article sayng the Pats have eroded and abandoned the 'Patriot Way' by signing Talib and now he promotes Talib as the potential savior of the secondary and difference maker. :confused:
  2. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't mind his stance. From a team-building point of view, he thinks a 4th round pick was too much and that he hopes Talib isn't being extended (even if there's something in principle, they couldn't have officially agreed to anything). From a pure on-the-field point of view, Talib definitely helps.
  3. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow, Bedard just comes out in the Globe and drops the bomb in public what many of us have been thinking:

    "And we also advocate for Belichick to take over the secondary, if not the entire defense, down the stretch. Matt Patricia, the defensive coordinator, and assistants Josh Boyer (cornerbacks) and Brian Flores (safeties) appear overmatched, though Flores seems to have a fine future."

    I hadn't yet seen anyone that high up in the local media actually come out and say that.
  4. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    FINALLY, THANK YOU!

    Mike Reiss is also calling out the Patriots defensive coaching, play calling and scheme. We need more writers to push this, hopefully just maybe BB will take notice and change things defensively a bit or hopefully in our case, a lot!

    Bottom line is: Patricia needs to get demoted back to LB coach or fired entirely,
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  5. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    How about fourth quarter oc? When Patricia takes the panties off the d and let's them "man up" and blitz, good things happen. All those big strong linebackers, why wouldn't you send them into the los to wreak havoc?
  6. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Taking the Patriots secondary today, in the positions each person was in, how many would have been starting for the:

    Jets
    Bills


    When people look at that, and find that the answer is zero, maybe they'll get off the "It's the coaching, even though the coaching has generally been pretty freaking brilliant for over a decade" nonsense.
  7. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    Isn't it quite plausible that maybe, just maybe the reason why they are so bad is because of coaching?
  8. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bedard had a major hissy fit over the Talib trade, but he seems to have gotten over it.

    The last 7 games of the season should be different from the first 9, for a couple of reasons:

    1. The Pats have essentially won the AFC East, and are playing for playoff position and more important to round the team into serious playoff competitive form. We're 3 games up on the Jets and Bills with victories over each (2 over Buffalo) and 2 games up on Miami. The Jet and Bills are out of it, and Miami is an extreme long shot. BB has 7 games to whip this team into playoff shape, and hopefully position it optimally for a serious title run.

    2. The move of McCourty to FS seems like a permanent thing, which will limit the weekly personnel movement, and Talib comes off suspension tomorrow. The Pats will finally be in position to start playing some aggressive press-man defensive with a deep cover-1 safety. Andrew Luck and Matt Schaub are the only really good QBs they face in their last 7 games.

    Bedard's also right about the Bills. They've been pesky for the Pats for a while, going back to the opening of the 2009 season. Lot of ugly and awkward games. The 25-24 comeback to start 2009, and a 17-10 win later that year. An ugly 38-30 win early in 2010. The 4 interception loss last year, and the ugly start in the 2nd game before coming to win. And having to come from behind this year after being down in the 3rd quarter. Only 1 of the past 8 games against the Bills has been one-sided. It just hasn't been an easy matchup for the Pats.

    Regardless, I agree with him. The season starts now, for better or worse. Time to start finding out if BB can turn this team into a serious contender.
  9. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can't teach crap players
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They had the same scheme last year, with lesser players, yet managed to improve a bit by the time the playoffs came around. So, what's the difference? Did the system become magically outdated in one year? Not likely.

    The answer probably lies in injuries, inexperience and lesser seasons by Arrington and Chung.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  11. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    Umm where have you been last year? Our pass defense was atrocious, second to last in the league if i remember correctly and this was with different players yet same outcome.
  12. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No. There's a number of reasons. Young. Complex schemes. Injuries. Coming off the bye week. Young. Inexperienced. Did I mention complex schemes? Young. Rookies.

    And by the way, EVERY single game in the AFCE is a dogfight, no matter how the score works out. these teams, these players, these coaches all see each other twice a year.

    I'd certainly like to see Coach Belichick release the hounds and have some more blitzes, bring the house and slam into the opponent's offense.

    BUT, until we can do that and show that our corners can consistently cover, that the ends can consistently get into the backfield and hurry/sack the QB, then I'm not uncomfortable with what's been going on.

    What I know is that building a solid defense takes time, and the problem with that is you also have to play the game in the mean time. Fortunately, New England has an excellent, though banged-up offense, that can bail them out most of the time.

    I know that everyone wants perfection now, but that ain't gonna happen. Grit your teeth, gird your loins, and buckle up because it's gonna be a bumpy ride for a bit.

    In the end, however, this defense is gonna be a top-shelf D. I'll be there to see it, even when all the haters have taken a number and que'd up for the diving board off the Tobin Bridge. :cool:
  13. MTM558

    MTM558 Rookie

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    I like Patricia as a coach. But as DC? I'm not sure. I still think Pepper Johnson should be allowed a chance to show what he's made of.

    If We bring back Romeo should he be fired by the Chiefs, I'd give him a chance.
  14. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    After watching tonight's game one question for you guys......

    If Wade Phillips was our DC,do you really think the secondary would be any better than the crap we put out there just about every Sunday for the past 2 years?

    The answer is simple ...no

    Guys like Wade have talented players who succeed because they ARE talented,if Wade had scrubs like these in NE,he would not be too successful.

    I don't like Patricia,Boyer ect: but it's not them,its the talent,lack of or inexperience that keeps this defense in the bottom half of the league

    Not even a HOF DC could get these guys to perform to standard......we live with Brady carrying the team once again and accept the defense for what it is or you might have to switch your fandom to another team.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  15. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    Our defense is anything but complex. They are just simple zone schemes. Even all the Boston sports writers are pointing out how Vanilla our defense is.

    So you refuse to try a new approach even though the old one has CLEARLY not been working? Since we get burned regardless of how many people are dropping back and covering, why not try something new? Why must we keep playing the same way and hoping for the best? The way i look at it is that, we need to blitz consistently to take the pressure off the secondary. If it don't work and they score a touchdown, so what! With out defense they were going to score regardless! Death by papercut it seems!

    When we consistently play soft zone schemes like this with no pressure on the opposing QB, no matter how good a CB is someone will get open eventually, unfortunately with out CB's they find it sooner rather than later. The opponent can move up and down the field at will with no pressure. This in effect when we play our current soft zone, will inevitebly succeed in two things: scoring and keeping Tom Brady and our offense off the field.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  16. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    IDK as constituted and from what they've shown this team might win a playoff game, but that's it. They won't be able to go punch for punch with the likes of the Texans.
  17. nekromantique

    nekromantique Rookie

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    Kareem Jackson was pretty terrible until this year...guys can be coached up


    Posted from Patsfans.com App for Android
  18. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    Our defense is one of the best and most opportunistic in takeaways in the league, same as last year. We have a very formidable front 7, yet somehow we are one of the worst defenses in the league. This tells me we have talent, scheme is the issue and a coach like Wade can absolutely turn this defense around, more so than Patricia.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  19. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last year's defensive talent sucked yet, with coaching, it was able to come in at #15 in scoring and held playoff opponents to 10,20 and 21 points.

    This year's defensive talent is better than last year's defensive talent and, before today, was #12 in scoring.

    People here, both homer and Chicken Little, struggle with separating terrible play from terrible results.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  20. jnug

    jnug Rookie

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    I wish they were that talented but with few exceptions they just are not that talented on this defense. They have actually been in position to have more take aways than they have but have not been able to make plays on the ball that were right there to be made. So the scheme is at least fairly often putting the players in positions to make plays.

    The linebackers are to big, bulky and slow. The DB's especially at CB are for the most part small without being particularly fast or worse, not even quick. Talib is thankfully larger. Some guys can hit but almost nobody can tackle. Some guys can neither hit nor tackle.

    I actually feel a bit sorry for Arrington cause he has just given up his body completely these last two seasons, has likely shortened his effective career to the point where it would not be a surprise if he did not make it back after this season. But his courage and heart are trying to replace a lack of physical ability and talent. The lack of physical ability and talent is pretty typical for the Pats secondary. Arrington has just been most noteworthy for willingly giving up his body in an effort to make up for it.

    Vince Wilford is a fantastic NG for my money but there is nobody else on that defense that is anywhere near as good at their respective position as Vince is at his. Vince is only one guy. All to often at the snap of the ball Vince becomes this big blue island in the middle of the line of scrimmage. All to often the rest of the defense just collapses around him though, exposed on the edges they are often incapable of forcing plays back inside.

    I think the defensive coaches all the way up to BB can be commended for the most part making lemonade from lemons. However BB has left himself somewhat exposed to some criticism because he is the guy picking the lemons.

    The times that I wish for a different defensive scheme are often those times when the opposing offense MUST score late in the game and MUST cover a goodly amount of ground to do it. It would seem to me that at those points in the game, the defense can be a little less conscience of the opponents ability to run the ball and try to make it more difficult to complete passes. However the Pats brain trust is still even then so worried about the other team running it right down their throats that their bias is still to discourage the run first. That in fact may be the right way to play it. Only they would know how truly vulnerable to the run they really are. They surely play like they think they are very vulnerable in that regard.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  21. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    You are obviously ignoring the fact we were second to last in every other statistical category except defensive rushing yards per game and as you noted scoring. Maybe this has to do with the fact we have a very talented front 7, which perhaps helps save a few points off the board. Also having the #1 offense probably helps your defense a little doesnt it?

    So by holding Tim Tebow and the Broncos offense to 10 points is a suprise to you? He can do everything BUT pass as a QB. Hardly an indicator of talent performance in our secondary.

    Holding the Ravens and Giants to 20 and 21 points is moderately successful considering it's only a .4-1.4 difference on their points per game season average like you stated. :/
  22. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not ignoring anything. You, however, are overrating the front seven. This team's linebackers are poor in coverage, and the DL/OLB group of pass rushers is very inconsistent. What the front seven usually does well is defend against the run. Today, they didn't even get that done.

    You act as if the Broncos somehow made it to the second round of the playoffs last year without scoring a single point all season. Denver put up 23 against the Patriots in their first meeting last year, put up 29 against the Steelers in overtime, put up 35 against the Vikings and put up 38 against the Raiders. It was an up and down team, offensively, with Tebow at the helm, but it was also a team that went 8-3 against non-Patriots teams.

    Yes, having that lousy defense holding opponents to 10, 20 and 21 points in the playoffs is a good thing. That's kind of the point. Despite having crap for talent (Sergio Brown, etc....), that team found a way to be middle of the pack in points scored against and found a way to limit opponents in the playoffs. That's excellent coaching.

    Here's the reality check:

    • Chung has never been good against the pass, is undersized for a big hitter, and gets hurt a lot
    • Gregory isn't starting talent, and this was discussed prior to the season
    • McCourty is a very inconsistent corner and is just learning the safety position
    • Dowling lost essentially all of his rookie season to injury, didn't look 100% coming back, and IR'd again
    • Dennard is a rookie CB who was at the bottom of the depth chart to start the season
    • Arrington is/was a UDFA CB4 who's been forced into a CB2 role. This has been discussed numerous times
    • Sterling Moore is a UDFA player who's a back of the roster, at best, player
    • Cole is a special teams player who's getting forced into action
    • Wilson is a rookie who is lousy in deep space and needs a whole lot of work if he's ever going to make it

    As has been pointed out time and again, it's not as if DBs wash out in New England and then go on to greatness elsewhere.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  23. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    In terms of rushing defense,you make it sound like they dominate everyone up front.....so far Spiller and Ray Rice have had their way with the front 7 and there are more big boys coming up soon like Gore and more notably the scary Foster/Tate combo

    Those upcoming runners next month will show us just how good of a run stopping unit this team has going into the post season.
  24. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    As for the linebackers you are absolutely right! They are poor in coverage (mainly Spikes) yet we still drop them into coverage, they are inconsistent on the 4 man rush, yet we hardly blitz. How can you NOT blame coaching and scheme?

    As far as the broncos you are nitpicking scores, i can show you far more games where Tim Tebow was just horrendous yet lucky then games where he played average enough to win. He did have a good game against the Steelers though. Tim Tebow we all know is hardly an aerial threat that you are making him out to be he was just fortunate enough to be on a talented Broncos team.

    We can go on all night about whether it is coaching or talent. It is probably both, honestly I could care less as long as its fixed. They brought in Talib to bring in some talent, great, but how bout we try something new from our coaches like blitzing instead of dropping our talented but slow LB's into coverage eh? It's pretty obvious we have a very vanilla easy to read defense, which does nothing to help our porous secondary if the QB has all day to read and throw.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  25. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

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    We still drop them into coverage? So what, you want us in quarters every game?

    We have to drop LBs in coverage
  26. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    Obviously not, Mayo should be the only one dropping into coverage and Hightower occasionally. Spikes and Hightower for the most part should just strictly go after the QB and focus on stopping the run. Spikes has no business dropping into coverage, EVER, he is far too slow to cover and is a liability. Hightower, on the other hand can do both. He has the speed to cover but i think he can be very very good at going after the QB (just check his film when he was in college). The problem is our current scheme doesn't utilize to our LB'ers strengths.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  27. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    Cmon giving up 101 yards to Ray Rice and 150 yards or so to the Bills talented RB duo is nothing to be ashamed about especially if you are constantly dropping the LB'ers to help our much maligned secondary.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  28. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

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    Uhuh.

    And you know exactly which play the Bills would run? Let's say they line up with Spiller and/or Jackson wide. Pats go dime/nickel.

    Then bring them both in the backfield and run.

    What now?

    Either way you lose if you react by pulling LB from coverage just to stop the pass. They'll run right over you
  29. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    This defense can force turnovers (spikes is a God dam monster), the young secondary plus Talib has me excited. I'm starting to wonder if otg is that crazy after all. Dennard can clearly make plays (push out), also missed a tackle or two...McCourty struggled a bit and mayo got killed a few times against the run. They made big plays though. Spikes is a beast and simply ran over the qb while wrapping up his shoulders...flag? Lol. Mayo call looked worse than it was, but reasonable. McCourty had a huge pick at the end.
  30. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Gotta stop guys like Ray Rice and Arian Foster if you are going to advance in the playoffs......this is my point because the Pats may face both when they get there.
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