BB rips Welker

[condon84]

Re: Wish BB was this vocal when Spygate came out....

Belichick was obviously pissed off about this game.

Hell, after halftime, he said he expected his offense to score more than 3 points. That's the most critical I've ever heard him in public about our offense.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

This nonsense about Welker trying to hurt him and take him out of the game is pure folly.
Btw has Belichick ever said anything about Bernard Pollard???? Hmmm........

When you say nonsense about Welker trying to hurt him, are you saying that's what BB said or some posters?

I doubt Welker was intent on taking a player out of the game, but rather the play and allowing his guy a free lane.

 

[Triumph]

Welkers hit on Talib was a designed play. Thomas knows its coming and was looking at Welker so he wouldnt collide with him.

Welker lowers his shoulder well before contact with Talib. While Welker probably did not intend to injure, this is what happens when you play with fire.

Talib going out changed the whole game. NE had to have him healthy for chance to win since Denver had 4 receiving options with 10 or more TDs. Its amazing that Denver did not hang twice as many points on the Pats.

 

[upstater1]

If there is bad blood between Belichick and Welker, that could be WHY Belichick said these things in the first place. Are there people that believe that Belichick isn't capable of animosity, whether it's subconscious or not? I mean "one of the worst plays he's ever seen?" C'mon now. That cannot be true. He can be biased as well...

Welker had TWO concussions this year. The guy was just cleared to play again after his SECOND concussion the week previous to this one. He comes back wearing a special helmet to better protect himself from further head injury at this point. He's a small guy.

Considering all that, who in their right mind would ever believe that a deliberate play would be drawn up to send Welker out on a head-hunting mission where he's supposed to intentionally collide with a much bigger person in an attempt to injure him? No, that didn't happen. It was unintentional.

Also, Belichick used "one of those plays" himself in the game...similar anyway.

It's clear you haven't read this thread.

If receivers can cross-body-block DBs on pick plays while the DBs are in pursuit prior to the reception, get ready for a lot of injuries. The alternative is for DBs to clobber and end WRs who are looking at the QB, so that they never try such a pick play again. That's what the NFL apparently wants. The NFL also likes to put the Bills against the Patriots in the first game of the year. Let's see one of the Bills try a pick play on Jamie Collins, and let's see what it will be like for the Bills to be without Woods or Stevie for the entire year.

 

[PittPatriot]

Re: Wish BB was this vocal when Spygate came out....

In my opinion, the person responsible for responding to those allegations was Robert Kraft. My guess is that Belichick was very likely muzzled by Kraft. The common procedure with most organizations is that when they're under fire, there is one spokesperson and that's nearly always the CEO. I've expressed my opinion many times before that, regardless of who was responsible for responding to Crygate, we, the fans, were left holding the bag forever in terms of defending the team.

Probably. I am sure Kraft realized anything BB said after the spy gate story would further add to his overall perception of arrogance. At the end of the day, Kraft cares about his brand beyond how the public feels about Belichick (as he does himself no favors). So he probably told BB to STFU about it and "let me handle it, I'll call you a schmuck and belittle you publicly" and hopefully this will blow over ok.
It reminded me of my senior year of high school when I pickd up the phone one day from home and heard a conversation with my Dad and the Assistant Principal as they discussed my behavior leading to a suspension. My Dad said: "Whatever discipline you decide will be much less than what he is in for at home." The Asst. Principal responded "No, no Mr. Jain, he is a good kid. I think he was just misguided for a moment and I am sure he'll never do something like this again." To my Dad, it was probably mission accomplished - win back the favor of the teachers/principals for his son so he can still get those glowing college app letters, blah blah blah and the family brand remains strong in our school system.
Unfortunately for the Pats, they were never able to go on and do bigger and better things (so close to perfection) and we still reside under the banner of "zero SB without cheating."

 

[PittPatriot]

Re: Wish BB was this vocal when Spygate came out....

The league heavily investigated those rumors and found them to be completely unsubstantiated.

Don't you remember the Boston Herald coming out and dedicating a huge full page ad in apology after the John Tomase article the day before the 2007 SB was proven to be incorrect?

I saved a PDF of that Herald apology...but nobody cares. I still have FB messages from "friends" baiting me with "no SB without cheating."

No one except us remembers the Matt Walsh/Rams walk throug stuff was never proven...but the everyone remembers the world remembers the story coming out on the eve of the SB and near-perfection.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

When you say nonsense about Welker trying to hurt him, are you saying that's what BB said or some posters?

I doubt Welker was intent on taking a player out of the game, but rather the play and allowing his guy a free lane.

Bill Belichick absolutely intimated that Welker tried to hurt Talib and take him out of the game.

"I'll let the league handle the discipline on that play. It's not for me to decide, but it's one of the worst plays I've seen. That's all I'm going to say about that."

Uh Bill, the league doesn't discipline for pass interference. Calling it one of the worst plays he's seen?? What?? Are you kidding me?? It's quite obvious what Belichick was intimating with his comments.....and it's ridiculous.
I'll ask again, has Belichick ever called out Bernard 'how many Patriot players has he put on IR??' Pollard??
'Nuff said.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Wish BB was this vocal when Spygate came out....

In my opinion, the person responsible for responding to those allegations was Robert Kraft. My guess is that Belichick was very likely muzzled by Kraft. The common procedure with most organizations is that when they're under fire, there is one spokesperson and that's nearly always the CEO. I've expressed my opinion many times before that, regardless of who was responsible for responding to Crygate, we, the fans, were left holding the bag forever in terms of defending the team.

I've said the same many times. Kraft blew it. Let his "brand" be damaged forever.
Outside of NE, BB's recent comments are perceived as poor sport whining.

It's frustrating that there is never any mention of Denver's repeated salary cap cheating and punishment and more recently, the Saints' far more serious bounty scandal with coaching collusion has been buried. Why is that?

 

[upstater1]

Bill Belichick absolutely intimated that Welker tried to hurt Talib and take him out of the game.

"I'll let the league handle the discipline on that play. It's not for me to decide, but it's one of the worst plays I've seen. That's all I'm going to say about that."

Uh Bill, the league doesn't discipline for pass interference. Calling it one of the worst plays he's seen?? What?? Are you kidding me?? It's quite obvious what Belichick was intimating with his comments.....and it's ridiculous.
I'll ask again, has Belichick ever called out Bernard 'how many Patriot players has he put on IR??' Pollard??
'Nuff said.

When you commit yourself to a reckless and dangerous play, and the opponent is injured, then someone has every right to say you took him out and injured him with purpose. It doesn't have to be your intention. It's the simple fact that you purposely made a reckless play. It's like diving at a QBs knees. You may not want to hurt the QB, but then why in the world did you dive at his knees?

 

[Triumph]

To be fair to Belichick, there is a video shot of the collision that could incriminate Welker.



But then, Welker's explanation also jibes with the video.
"It was one of those plays where it's kind of a rough play and I was trying to get him to go over the top, and I think he was thinking the same thing and wanted to come underneath and we just kind of collided," Welker said after the game. "It wasn't a deal where I was trying to hit him or anything like that."

Read more: Broncos defend Wes Welker's hit that Bill Belichick criticizes - The Denver Post Broncos defend Wes Welker's hit that Bill Belichick criticizes - The Denver Post
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[Uncle Meat]

It's clear you haven't read this thread.

If receivers can cross-body-block DBs on pick plays while the DBs are in pursuit prior to the reception, get ready for a lot of injuries. The alternative is for DBs to clobber and end WRs who are looking at the QB, so that they never try such a pick play again. That's what the NFL apparently wants. The NFL also likes to put the Bills against the Patriots in the first game of the year. Let's see one of the Bills try a pick play on Jamie Collins, and let's see what it will be like for the Bills to be without Woods or Stevie for the entire year.

Are you the same uppy from the Buffalo Range?

Anyway, plays are designed like that by every team, I'd say. You send a guy across one way, and send another receiver across the other way to misdirect direct defenders. So a guy like Wes is trying to make a guy like Talib go a certain way to clear up the designed receiver. If Talib realizes that and doesn't bite, it turns into a game of chicken. "I'm not going that way." It happens so fast, and then you have a collision...may not have even been an intentional hit at all, much less a deliberate intent to injure, which is a ridiculous thing to assume. Welker was bracing himself for impact more than anything.

**** happens, and it happened on that play. The Patriots got killed anyway...couldn't do jack-squat offensively for one thing. This incident is not the reason why the Patriots lost.

 

[upstater1]

Are you the same uppy from the Buffalo Range?

I've never even heard of that.

Let me ask you this: don't you think what Welker did means open season on DBs?

One better Q: have you ever seen a WR throw a cross-body-block on a pick play at full speed? I only see rubs, pushoffs, blocks, etc. In decades of watching football, I've never seen that before.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

When you commit yourself to a reckless and dangerous play, and the opponent is injured, then someone has every right to say you took him out and injured him with purpose. It doesn't have to be your intention. It's the simple fact that you purposely made a reckless play. It's like diving at a QBs knees. You may not want to hurt the QB, but then why in the world did you dive at his knees?

It wasn't reckless and it wasn't dangerous. It was a garden variety NFL play that you'll find in every NFL game and carried out by every NFL team.
Sorry but there was nothing extraordinary about that play. Nothing!! In fact there were 10 or more hits in the SF/Seattle game far nastier than that one.

 

[groganbootleg]

I've tried point out to people that there's absolutely nothing wrong with Edelman's hit, but people can't seem to understand. It was a 100% legal play. DRC was chasing the ball carrier and was not defenseless, and Edelman went shoulder to chest. There's nothing remotely dirty or illegal about it. That is essentially the definition of a hard legal block.

You missed one important point....... the ball was in the air. He can't block until AFTER the catch. He is supposed to be running a pass route, not taking out another defender who is chasing his teammate down. He had no intentions of catching anything except Talib's legs.

 

[Jackson 2]

Re: Wish BB was this vocal when Spygate came out....

I've said the same many times. Kraft blew it. Let his "brand" be damaged forever.
Outside of NE, BB's recent comments are perceived as poor sport whining.

It's frustrating that there is never any mention of Denver's repeated salary cap cheating and punishment and more recently, the Saints' far more serious bounty scandal with coaching collusion has been buried. Why is that?

Two words: Bill Belichick.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Re: Wish BB was this vocal when Spygate came out....

I've said the same many times. Kraft blew it. Let his "brand" be damaged forever.
Outside of NE, BB's recent comments are perceived as poor sport whining.

It's frustrating that there is never any mention of Denver's repeated salary cap cheating and punishment and more recently, the Saints' far more serious bounty scandal with coaching collusion has been buried. Why is that?

Agree 100%. This is one of the biggest mistakes Bob Kraft has made since being owner. He should have stood up Goodell and told him that he would sue if they took anymore than a 4th rounder. BB just did ont comply wiht a memo, there was no cheating involved.

The OP is wrong. It was not BB's place to be vocal about it. It was Bob Krafts place to be vocal about it.

 

[groganbootleg]

posted very helpful videos

A couple of things:

1) This happens 5-6 yards away from the line of scrimmage so the whole argument of its legal within a yard of the LOS is debunked

2) Wes hits Talib while the ball is IN the air, not after. Thats PI.

3) I'm not sure if I buy the whole "cross body block" argument. The proper technique for a cross body block would involve Wes throwing his hand (in almost a punching motion) down toward Talib's knee and having his body follow that down where his head would end up down and past his knee and his body would be perpendicular to Tabil's. His torso would be the part which would impact with Talib. He may have been trying to do that and got it completely wrong, but it was not a cross body block. I think a true cross body block would have been far less damaging had he executed it properly (it also would've/should've been a penalty).

4) In looking at the gif it appears clear to me that Wes had no intentions of running a route or catching a ball and that his sole purpose on that play was to take Talib out of the route. You can stop this nonsense by playing a short zone when you see the receivers coming out of the play and crossing so you dont get picked off. I'm not sure why you'd ever want to play man to man on these guys.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Wish BB was this vocal when Spygate came out....

Belichick was obviously pissed off about this game.

Hell, after halftime, he said he expected his offense to score more than 3 points. That's the most critical I've ever heard him in public about our offense.

The common thread of our last 6 playoff losses:

2007: 14 points in a SB loss to the Giants
2009: 14 points in a divisional round loss to the Ravens
2010: 21 points in a divisional round loss to the Jets
2011: 17 points in a SB loss to the Giants
2012: 13 points in a AFCCG loss to the Ravens
2013: 16 points in a AFCCG loss to the Broncos, mostly in the 4th quarter after the game was over

Not exactly a stellar string of offensive performances.

 

[chasa]

I've never even heard of that.

Let me ask you this: don't you think what Welker did means open season on DBs?

One better Q: have you ever seen a WR throw a cross-body-block on a pick play at full speed? I only see rubs, pushoffs, blocks, etc. In decades of watching football, I've never seen that before.

i think what welker did means open season on welker, I predict he gets knocked out of the superbowl when he tries this ***** stuff, and the seattle DB's decide to light him the f up

 

[upstater1]

Are you the same uppy from the Buffalo Range?

Anyway, plays are designed like that by every team, I'd say. You send a guy across one way, and send another receiver across the other way to misdirect direct defenders. So a guy like Wes is trying to make a guy like Talib go a certain way to clear up the designed receiver. If Talib realizes that and doesn't bite, it turns into a game of chicken. "I'm not going that way." It happens so fast, and then you have a collision...may not have even been an intentional hit at all, much less a deliberate intent to injure, which is a ridiculous thing to assume. Welker was bracing himself for impact more than anything.

**** happens, and it happened on that play. The Patriots got killed anyway...couldn't do jack-squat offensively for one thing. This incident is not the reason why the Patriots lost.

You need to rewatch the play. You are missing a lot. Welker veered into Talib from the side. It wasn't two players running headlong into one another. Welker is on the other side of the line when he veers into Talib. Not only that, he's never even looking at the QB. He's looking at Talib the whole time.

Again, I'd love Stevie or Woods to try a pick play next year. If I know Belichick, he is going to take his frustration out by planning such things next year if the NFL doesn't address this.