And why don't we ever draft pass rushers?

[Luke Skywelker]

When they are clearly available with safe picks and we in turn continue accumulating bust CB's?

Second-round rookie LE Jabaal Sheard leads the Browns with 5.5 sacks and five forced fumbles through 12 games.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer already places Sheard "in the discussion" of the best pass rushers drafted by the expansion-era Browns. The former Pitt star has been an every-down player in Cleveland, grading out in the top-10 among all defensive ends, according to Pro Football Focus. He's a building block for **** Jauron's defense.

This when Brooks Reed was also available.

At some point NE brass, just take the pick that the pundits are saying is the most logical pick and not go fancy just to go against the grain. Reading stuff like this is nauseating from the what could have been stand point.

 

[TriplecHamp]

because you touch yourself at night.

 

[captain stone]

Pass-Rushers? P-P-Pass-Rushers? D-Did you say P-Pass-Rushers?

Bill & his "brain trust"(snicker) don't even know how to draft a decent WR;
they're too busy deciding which dime-a-dozen Blocking TE to draft in the 5th round,
where Fresno State OLB Chris Carter was still available.

P-Pass-Rushers? Are you kidding me?

 

[Sciz]

Sheard was a horrible fit as an OLB for the Pats. He's a little short, and he's a liability when he's not moving forward. That's covered up in the 4-3, but he's also not the kind of athlete you ideally want at RE. He is what he is, a 4-3 DE (and ideally an LE) who won't be a liability in any phase of the game, but will never be an elite pass rusher, never a 10 sack guy. And for a guy like Belichick, he's too short to count on as an every down DE.

Reed is a hair on fire guy. Don't ask him to read and react, don't ask him to take on blockers. Tell him to fly past them and he'll succeed sometimes. Not a fit for the Pats' 4-3 or 3-4.

There was a good fit and a decent fit at OLB for the Pats this past draft. They went #7 and #14. Everybody after that had a fatal flaw.

And LOL at Chris Carter. He's a full two inches shorter than the next shortest pass rusher on the Pats, in a scheme that requires good height and length. And he's done nothing even in the short-pass-rusher-friendly Steelers defense to show he was a better pick than even Markell Carter.

 

[Luke Skywelker]

Man, how long can we subscribe to this perfect prototype for the "system" with all these swings and misses? When does it simply become about drafting a good football player and bringing some value to the table rather than these cuts/busts? It's not as though this defense has anything to show for this system drafting for about 5-6 drafts running. Jermaine Cunningham? It's only a compelling argument when drafting for the system actually works. Go out and get the good football player and mold the system to him. Adapt. There are a lot of teams going out and getting the best player who are putting good defenses together. This one has been trying to rebuild for an eternity with not much to show for it.

 

[Sciz]

So basically, you want to draft for need rather than value, collect talent first and build a team with that talent second, and completely redo the defensive philosophy. Sounds like what you want isn't for Belichick to change, but for a completely new GM/coach, because you basically just described the anti-Belichick.

 

[IllegalContact]

So basically, you want to draft for need rather than value, collect talent first and build a team with that talent second, and completely redo the defensive philosophy. Sounds like what you want isn't for Belichick to change, but for a completely new GM/coach, because you basically just described the anti-Belichick.

LMAO.......draft for value? draft for scheme or system? WTF are you talking about? here you go....2nd and 3rd round of value drafting since 2008....the ones with an asterisk are the one who stand to contribute the ones with a + are no longer with the team:

dowling
vereen
ridley
mallett
gronk*
cunningham
spikes
price +
chung*
butler +
brace
vollmer
tate +
mckenzie +
wheatley +
crable +
oconnell +

explain to me the value.....7 of 17 picks yielded zero value and are no longer with the team.....at least 2 more (cunningham and brace) will not be on the roster next year

anti-belichik or not, what's happening now ain't working, and its not like you can site there and ooze over the potential

 

[borg]

So basically, you want to draft for need rather than value, collect talent first and build a team with that talent second, and completely redo the defensive philosophy. Sounds like what you want isn't for Belichick to change, but for a completely new GM/coach, because you basically just described the anti-Belichick.

Bill released/cut alot of his "value" this year....yippeee

 

[fester]

LMAO.......draft for value? draft for scheme or system? WTF are you talking about? here you go....2nd and 3rd round of value drafting since 2008....explain to me the value.....7 of 17 picks yielded zero value and are no longer with the team.....at least 2 more (cunningham and brace) will not be on the roster next year

What is the expected hit rate? That is the relevent question. Here are two experts (actual NFL GMs) talking about hit rates:

“Even in the first two rounds, you’re going to miss 44 percent of the time,” Reinfeldt said. “… It’s a tough business. There is a lot of exposure to it. I think you need to be realistic and compare historically to what other clubs have done...Judging productive players or players who have NFL-caliber traits over the last five or six years, he sees a .560 hit percentage for the first and second rounds; .350 for the third, fourth and fifth rounds; and .333 for the sixth and seventh rounds....​

Using those metrics, the Patriots should have solid contributions from 45% of their second or third rounders since 2008. And using your numbers and assessments (7/17 for 2011 or 9/17 for 2012), that is the hit rate they are getting.

Without any trading, the Patriots would have had 8 picks in these two rounds from the 2008 to 2011 drafts. At a league average rate of success, they would have most likely have found 3 or 4 solid players. Using the trade for value system that you don't like, there are 8 or more candidates for "solid" players.

That is the trade-off, if the Pats draft at a league average success rate, does the cost of acquiring more picks to take more swings outweigh the benefit of either staying in place or moving up?

The Patriots want more swings.

 

[reflexblue]

When they are clearly available with safe picks and we in turn continue accumulating bust CB's?

Second-round rookie LE Jabaal Sheard leads the Browns with 5.5 sacks and five forced fumbles through 12 games.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer already places Sheard "in the discussion" of the best pass rushers drafted by the expansion-era Browns. The former Pitt star has been an every-down player in Cleveland, grading out in the top-10 among all defensive ends, according to Pro Football Focus. He's a building block for **** Jauron's defense.

This when Brooks Reed was also available.

At some point NE brass, just take the pick that the pundits are saying is the most logical pick and not go fancy just to go against the grain. Reading stuff like this is nauseating from the what could have been stand point.

Whats a Pass Rusher?

 

[NEP4Life]

Fans of this team know first round defensive draft picks need to be 3 down players. One dimensional gap shooters are late picks, udfas, jag pick ups.

The pats are not going to overpay for a highlight reel gap shooter when that money can go to Brady, Gronk, or Kraft himself.

jmho.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Fans of this team know first round defensive draft picks need to be 3 down players. One dimensional gap shooters are late picks, udfas, jag pick ups.

The pats are not going to overpay for a highlight reel gap shooter when that money can go to Brady, Gronk, or Kraft himself.

jmho.

Too bad, it would be nice to see them try to develop someone into a 4 down player that already has superior athletic skills.

At any rate, one day BB will shock us all and take that bonafide stud we've been waiting for to crush the QB.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Too bad, it would be nice to see them try to develop someone into a 4 down player that already has superior athletic skills.

At any rate, one day BB will shock us all and take that bonafide stud we've been waiting for to crush the QB.

They said he would never draft an interior lineman, they said he would never draft a linebacker....time for a first round receiver and pass rusher

 

[zimmy]

What do people think about getting Anthony Spencer in free agency? He's not the most amazing pass rusher but he does a lot of things well. He is especially good against the run. What do people think of Courtney Upshaw too?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

What do people think of Courtney Upshaw too?

First let me say that Sheard had excellent explosion and suddenness at the snap of the ball in college and that translates well in the NFL. Compared to A Thomas and Burgess and some of the other veteran retreads that we have had at OLB, Sheard was a fit at OLB.

In my mind BB just would not take the time to train and coach up a player like Sheard.

As for Upshaw, he MAKES PLAYS in the toughest conference in college football on a weekly basis. Yes, he is only about 6'2" but he is 260 pounds and has very strong hands. If he runs 4.6, he is my choice for our elephant backer for next year.

Ideally if we get Upshaw and Kuehly in the first, round, we can play BOTH the 4-3 and the 3-4 from play to play next season without any of the LBers leaving the field.

3-4 line up. Upshaw-Mayo-Kuehly-Ninkovich
4-3 line up Mayo-Kuehly-Ninkovich. Upshaw moves to DE.

That leaves us both second round picks to go after SS Barron and FS Martin or Lester or McDonald.