And now pft takes a moment to acknowledge science AKA backpedals

[juny]

Im not buying the sauna theory, you would think the refs would notice that every time they go to new england the footballs are unusually warm. Or if they did you would probably hear some anecdote about during the games like when NBC was talking about Rodgers overinflated footballs

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

One more time
No sauna or special treatment is needed for all the balls to fall out of spec as the temp outside drops
No exotic machinations
Just simple physics of a normally treated ball
which apparently eludes the NFL intelligence (sic)

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

not cheating!

If the balls met the rules for correct psi at the time of inspection and were not altered in any way afterwards: Legal. Check. Mate.

It might prompt new regulations, such as the ones for the Kballs which came into being because teams were LEGALLY putting the balls in saunas.

If I am a wrestler at 190 pounds and weigh in at 189 three hours before the match or whenever the official weigh-in is, I can super-hydrate myself, carb load, whatever, wrestle at 194, and it is all legal.

You are required to present footballs to pass inspection with regard to all properties, and not to alter them after that.

PERIOD.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

One more time
No sauna or special treatment is needed for all the balls to fall out of spec as the temp outside drops
No exotic machinations
Just simple physics of a normally treated ball
which apparently eludes the NFL intelligence (sic)

It depends upon what the facts are.

The ideal gas law calculations done right by taking into account atmospheric pressure (I am a chemistry professor) suggest a 1.4 psi or so pressure drop for 75 degree inflation and playing /retest at 50 degrees.

Thus it is hard to explain a full 2 psi drop, if that is even what was seen, without leakage due to rough play (and some of the 12 were likely not used in play) or an assumption about poor precision in the gauge (big error bars)

But if 75 degrees becomes 90 degrees or higher, 2 psi drops are not just possible, they are automatic.

.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

First: Ignore the 2 psi from Mort. When did he become the National Bureau of Standards?

Second: The math is not exact. Actual environmental testing trumps calculations..
To whit: measuring the pressure lets air out altering the prior pressure
Pressure gauges are not especially accurate
When was the gauge tested & calibrated?
Colder than air temp rain falling from thousands of feet up is likely colder than the air in Gillette cooling the ball further

The list is long

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I AGREE that the NFL has a flawed operational process. Period. if you specify pressure you must specify temperature too, since they are inextricably related.

The NFL even knows this, since sauna treatment of kicking balls was a legal and widespread practice, so they CHANGED THE RULES AND PROCEDURES to prevent it. The teams that did it before the rule change were not cheaters.

If TODAY I drive 70 mph in a 70 mph speed zone, but tomorrow they lower the speed limit to 65, that does not mean that yesterday I broke the law. That is not lawyer-talk, that is not gaming the system, that is COMMON SENSE.

 

[Tony Cahncuhd]

It depends upon what the facts are.

The ideal gas law calculations done right by taking into account atmospheric pressure (I am a chemistry professor) suggest a 1.4 psi or so pressure drop for 75 degree inflation and playing /retest at 50 degrees.

Thus it is hard to explain a full 2 psi drop, if that is even what was seen, without leakage due to rough play (and some of the 12 were likely not used in play) or an assumption about poor precision in the gauge (big error bars)

But if 75 degrees becomes 90 degrees or higher, 2 psi drops are not just possible, they are automatic.

.

Pressurizing a ball increases the initial starting temperature inside the football because compression releases heat.

Any humidity in the air used to inflate the football causes an additional loss of vapor pressure once that water condenses outdoors.

Rain cooler than ambient air increases the temperature differential further.

Add these factors to more accurately reflect actual conditions and you have your 2 psi drop

 

[crafty213]

One more time
No sauna or special treatment is needed for all the balls to fall out of spec as the temp outside drops
No exotic machinations
Just simple physics of a normally treated ball
which apparently eludes the NFL intelligence (sic)

This is true. I would hope the NFL would account for normal weather and temp differences before deciding to do a huge investigation like this though. They are incompetent but I cannot believe they would be that incompetent.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

people are STILL going to say "but you were trying to job the system and you broke the spirit of the rules and are a poor sport thus you should be punished"

tough crap, whiners.

Ever see the Manning / Marino "fake spike" play executed? That takes advantage of the legal spiking to stop the clock rule. It is downright sneaky. Maybe it should be ruled illegal. But it hasn't been, and if you do it, fine for you.

 

[vyrago]

Look at these fools. They were a bunch of ravenous dogs yesterday. Now they are all backpedaling. You all rushed to judgment without all the facts. They can all suck it. They are not to be trusted.

How many apologies and/or mea culpas do you think the Pats will get from these pathetic idiots?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Im not buying the sauna theory, you would think the refs would notice that every time they go to new england the footballs are unusually warm. Or if they did you would probably hear some anecdote about during the games like when NBC was talking about Rodgers overinflated footballs

15 min before inspection, take them out of the sauna. The leather surface would cool rapidly, since leather conducts heat poorly, but the air inside the ball would STILL be very warm, even after 15 minutes.

They wouldn't necessarily feel a warm football at all. The air inside would be warm, but they are not letting that out to any great extent

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Why are folks obsessing with saunas? It has nothing to do with Sunday's game. Nothing.

 

[kennyb]

If the final psi was 11 then no sauna would be needed. That's why the final psi is so important. 72 to 45 explains 12.5psi going to 11psi. For it to go to 10 psi would be more difficult.

Thought I read 11 psi.

It's a very key number.

 

[Big-T]

Why are people on here STILL trying to find some nefarious in this?

The "sauna theory" is completely and utterly not needed, EVERY test done on video so far has shown a ball inflated in a room that is 67-72 Fahrenheit will result in a 2-3 PSI drop when the ball is taken outdoors. The tests done on Youtube have all shown this with varying colder temps between 40 and 54 Fahrenheit.

 

[vyrago]

I think this whole SUBJECT and INVESTIGATION is a bunch of hot air...

And laughable. Roger-dodger should be embarrassed. His precious league has become the laughing stock of late night t.v. Who can take "The Shield" seriously ever again?

 

[Danger Zone]

Please let it be a mad and I'm not going to take it anymore Brady that steps up to that podium.

 

[Fencer]

What conditions the balls were filled under would not be a violation.
By the way I don't think it has anything to do with filling them but where they stored them.

It probably has everything to do with the temperature of the air that filled them. The higher the temperature at the time the balls were at 12.5 PSI, the lower the number of molecules at that time. and hence the lower the pressure once the balls fully adjust to any particular ambient temperature.

As for whether it's a violation -- that depends wholly on whether there's some catch-all "Don't do anything too exotic to get an advantage" general sportsmanship rule they are judged to have broken.

 

[Ring 6]

It probably has everything to do with the temperature of the air that filled them. The higher the temperature at the time the balls were at 12.5 PSI, the lower the number of molecules at that time. and hence the lower the pressure once the balls fully adjust to any particular ambient temperature.

As for whether it's a violation -- that depends wholly on whether there's some catch-all "Don't do anything too exotic to get an advantage" general sportsmanship rule they are judged to have broken.

Its about the temp of the air when they are tested. So the temp pumped in would be crucial if they were pumped just before testing, but the temp where they are stored would otherwise mean more, since the pressure adjusts to the temp in the air outside the ball.

 

[Dr Pain]

NFL's Randy Moss said that the cars at Gillette were leafleted last night with the results of a Carnegie Mellon test showing they balls would deflate under the indoor outdoor conditions of the game by up to 1.8 PSI and a link to the study. Very funny and thank you whoever did this. Seems like it was done to the staff and players cars though they didn't say that.

 

[PatriotsReign]

There will be more backpedaling before this is all said and done..i think a lot...

By the NFL but no back-pedaling by Patriots! I'm certain of that much.