AFC East QBs: Who will be the best of Sanchez, Henne, Edwards?

[Synovia]

My point was that you don't upgrade your receivers by drafting a wildcat QB in the second round.

No, you don't, but when you're a couple of years away from having a complete team, you don't worry about that. You take the best guy there.

 

[Deus Irae]

There really werent any WRs worth taking with the Pat White pick. Only 1 WR was taken in the 2nd round after Pat White.

The Fins did try to upgrade their receivers by spending a 3rd and a 4th round pick on WRs this year...

Let's try this again, with a little more bluntness....

If you're trying to upgrade the WR position, you don't draft a new QB who can't throw the damned football, unless you're going to convert him a la Edelman.

 

[Synovia]

If you're trying to upgrade the WR position, you don't draft a new QB who can't throw the damned football, unless you're going to convert him a la Edelman.

I'm not sure they're not going to do that with White. White will be most valuable if he can catch, run, and throw a little. IE, a guy who lines up all over the place.

 

[FinNasty23]

Let's try this again, with a little more bluntness....

If you're trying to upgrade the WR position, you don't draft a new QB who can't throw the damned football, unless you're going to convert him a la Edelman.

I'm really failing to see what you are missing here.

We didnt draft Pat White to "throw the damned football". We drafted Henne as our QB. We drafted Pat White as a runner first, who has the ability to throw it.

Drafting Pat White has zero relevance to us trying to upgrade the WR position. We drafted 2 WRs this year in order to upgrade it.

There is no correlation between drafting Pat White and our WR situation. You keep trying to connect those 2 dots. Theres nothing to connect.

We took a player that we felt could be productive in our scheme, and had good value on the board. Thats it. We were not trying to upgrade our WR situation with our 2nd rounder...

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm really failing to see what you are missing here.

We didnt draft Pat White to "throw the damned football". We drafted Henne as our QB. We drafted Pat White as a runner first, who has the ability to throw it.

Drafting Pat White has zero relevance to us trying to upgrade the WR position. We drafted 2 WRs this year in order to upgrade it.

There is no correlation between drafting Pat White and our WR situation. You keep trying to connect those 2 dots. Theres nothing to connect.

We took a player that we felt could be productive in our scheme, and had good value on the board. Thats it. We were not trying to upgrade our WR situation with our 2nd rounder...

I'm not missing anything. What is it with the fans of other teams today?

Drafting Pat White IN THE SECOND ROUND cost the Dolphins a valuable chip which could have been used to either draft a receiver or to trade for a veteran receiver.

Drafting a QB who'll run a 'Wildcat' offense doesn't help surround Chad Henne with receiving talent. It doesn't help beef up the offensive line. It doesn't help with another tight end. It doesn't help with any running backs.

It only helps running the Wildcat. Given that this:

They run the wildcat because they have no playmakers at receiver. As someone pointed out above, the one guy they have that can get open can't catch. Henne has the arm, the poise, the size, and the decision making ability to be a stud in the league.

was the post I was initially responding to, Pat White was a wasted pick if that poster is correct, because drafting him doesn't help Chad Henne bcome a "stud in the league". This should be rudimentary enough for Dolphins fans. Hell, even Jets fans should be able to figure this one out.




Ok, maybe that's giving too much credit to Jets fans, but you get the point.

 

[FinNasty23]

I'm not missing anything. What is it with the fans of other teams today?

Drafting Pat White IN THE SECOND ROUND cost the Dolphins a valuable chip which could have been used to either draft a receiver or to trade for a veteran receiver.

Drafting a QB who'll run a 'Wildcat' offense doesn't help surround Chad Henne with receiving talent. It doesn't help beef up the offensive line. It doesn't help with another tight end. It doesn't help with any running backs.

It only helps running the Wildcat. Given that this:



was the post I was initially responding to, Pat White was a wasted pick if that poster is correct, because drafting him doesn't help Chad Henne bcome a "stud in the league". This should be rudimentary enough for Dolphins fans. Hell, even Jets fans should be able to figure this one out.




Ok, maybe that's giving too much credit to Jets fans, but you get the point.

So, who should the Fins have drafted in the 2nd round with that pick then??? I've been trying to say, there werent WRs worth taking at that pick. So, taking a WR just for the sake of taking one is not how you build a team. There was only 1 WR taken the rest of that round, who has only had 19 catches all year.

So, what WR should have been that pick? The fact was, there wasnt a "playmaker" at WR worth taking there, so thats why they didnt take one. Instead, they drafted a different position. We have a great OL. We have RBs. The ONLY thing we need on offense to help surround Henne with is a WR... and there just wasnt one with that pick.


Are you proposing that they should have just taken whatever WR was next on their board, regardless of that player's value?

 

[Deus Irae]

So, who should the Fins have drafted in the 2nd round with that pick then??? I've been trying to say, there werent WRs worth taking at that pick. So, taking a WR just for the sake of taking one is not how you build a team. There was only 1 WR taken the rest of that round, who has only had 19 catches all year.

So, what WR should have been that pick? The fact was, there wasnt a "playmaker" at WR worth taking there, so thats why they didnt take one. Instead, they drafted a different position.


Are you proposing that they should have just taken whatever WR was next on their board, regardless of their value?

Sometimes you have to do that. However, as I noted, it could have been used to draft a receiver, or an offensive lineman, or a tight end, or in trade to bring in a veteran receiver.

Hell, it could have been traded away for lower, additional picks, so that the team could have drafted more receivers in the lower rounds if it felt there was no way to justify using a second round pick on any of the receivers.

Again, drafting Pat White undercuts the Henne argument. If you're 100% behind Henne, you don't draft another QB in round 2.

And, for the record, I didn't like the Patriots grabbing O'Connell in round 3 when they made that mistake, either. You don't waste high round picks on QBs when you've already got a starter that you plan to build around for the next 3-4 years, unless you're looking at a Randy Moss/Dan Marino/Warren Sapp kind of precipitous drop.

 

[Synovia]

Sometimes you have to do that.

Doing that is how teams end up with guys like Ted Ginn.

However, as I noted, it could have been used to draft a receiver, or an offensive lineman, or a tight end, or in trade to bring in a veteran receiver.

The dolphins don't need any offensive lineman, and they don't really need any tight ends. The value just wasn't there.

Hell, it could have been traded away for lower, additional picks, so that the team could have drafted more receivers in the lower rounds if it felt there was no way to justify using a second round pick on any of the receivers.

Again, drafting Pat White undercuts the Henne argument. If you're 100% behind Henne, you don't draft another QB in round 2.

Again, Pat White is not a QB anymore. He's irrelevant to Henne. He plays a completely different specialized position.

And, for the record, I didn't like the Patriots grabbing O'Connell in round 3 when they made that mistake, either. You don't waste high round picks on QBs when you've already got a starter that you plan to build around for the next 3-4 years.

yeah, I dunno, worked fine for Atlanta. Worked great for all the QBs green bay picked under Favre (almost all of who they spun for better picks).

But thats irrelevant, because PAT WHITE IS NOT A QUARTERBACK.

 

[FinNasty23]

Sometimes you have to do that. However, as I noted, it could have been used to draft a receiver, or an offensive lineman, or a tight end, or in trade to bring in a veteran receiver.

Hell, it could have been traded away for lower, additional picks, so that the team could have drafted more receivers in the lower rounds if it felt there was no way to justify using a second round pick on any of the receivers.

Again, drafting Pat White undercuts the Henne argument. If you're 100% behind Henne, you don't draft another QB in round 2.

And, for the record, I didn't like the Patriots grabbing O'Connell in round 3 when they made that mistake, either. You don't waste high round picks on QBs when you've already got a starter that you plan to build around for the next 3-4 years, unless you're looking at a Randy Moss/Dan Marino/Warren Sapp kind of precipitous drop.

For the last time... we did NOT draft a QB in round 2. Pat White is not a QB. Drafting him is completely different than drafting O'Connell.

And there werent any TEs taken in the 2nd round either. And we didnt need an offensive lineman.

I dont understand why if there was no WR worth taking there, that we couldnt use that pick to improve our team in a different area? We used it on Pat White, to improve our unique running package. Dont know if you noticed, but Pat White made some plays that helped us in that game against you guys. Pat White's addition improved our team, and thats what draft picks are for.


We decided not to use that 2nd rounder on a WR, since we didnt feel there was one worth taking there, and instead decided to improve a different area of the team with that particular pick... and wait a round till when there was better value at the WR position...

 

[Deus Irae]

For the last time... we did NOT draft a QB in round 2. Pat White is not a QB. Drafting him is completely different than drafting O'Connell.

Pat White is a quarterback. Saying otherwise is just ridiculous.

And there werent any TEs taken in the 2nd round either. And we didnt need an offensive lineman.

Richard Quinn says "Hello". I say "The Dolphins most certainly could use another offensive lineman".

I dont understand why if there was no WR worth taking there, that we couldnt use that pick to improve our team in a different area? We used it on Pat White, to improve our unique running package. Dont know if you noticed, but Pat White made some plays that helped us in that game against you guys. Pat White's addition improved our team, and thats what draft picks are for.

Pat White plays quarterback. If Henne's a 'stud', bringing in a QB to back him up and spending a 2nd round pick on that very limited QB does not improve the team in a different area.

We decided not to use that 2nd rounder on a WR, since we didnt feel there was one worth taking there, and instead decided to improve a different area of the team with that particular pick... and wait a round till when there was better value at the WR position...

Belichick decided to use a 3rd rounder to draft a QB a couple years back. He made a mistake. If Parcells really thinks Henne's going to be a "stud", to use the poster's word, drafting White in round 2 was a mistake, too. Hell, Williams is scheduled to retire after next season, so that makes the selection even more of a mistake from the "Henne the Stud" perspective.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Claiming that Pat White is a QB is a lot like claiming that Kevin Faulk is a RB- it's technically true, and if you have to assign him a classical position, that's it, but just like Faulk plays outside of our standard RB rotation, so does White play outside of the standard QB role. Stop trying to pigeonhole him as something that he's not.

That said, I don't think that the White pick was a smart one either. If that was the best value they saw at that spot, they should have traded down imo.

 

[Synovia]

Pat White is a quarterback. Saying otherwise is just ridiculous.

No, hes not. He played quarterback in college. He does not play quarterback in the NFL. If hes any position, its running back.


Do you happen to know of any guys who are definitely quarterbacks who have 5 times as many rushing attempts as passing attempts?

 

[FinNasty23]

Pat White is a quarterback. Saying otherwise is just ridiculous.

Richard Quinn says "Hello". I say "The Dolphins most certainly could use another offensive lineman".

Pat White has only 2 pass attempts, and 10 rushing attempts. Thats probably the ratio of runs to passes he will have in his career... 5 to 1. He is not a QB. He is basically a RB, that has some throwing ability. Pat White will never line up behind center and run a traditional offense. He was not drafted to do so.

Oh, and you are right... there was a TE taken with the last pick in the 2nd round. You're right, we should have drafted him near the top of the 2nd... even though he hasnt caught a ball all season. Dude is a stud. What were we thinking?

Pat White plays quarterback. If Henne's a 'stud', bringing in a QB to back him up and spending a 2nd round pick on that very limited QB does not improve the team in a different area.

Pat White improves our running game in our Wildcat package... which we use more than any other team. Pat White was not drafted to improve our passing game. He was drafted to improve our running game. And he contributed 45 yards on a 7.5ypc and was part of a 15 yard rushing TD play this past Sunday.



Oh, and what position do you feel they needed to improve upon on the OL? We have 2 book end tackles, a great Center, a big FA acquisition at LG, and a young promising RG.

We drafted 3 offensive linemen last year (and 3 defensive linemen). Last years draft was about the trenches. This year's draft was more about the skill positions (ex - CBs, WRs, Wildcat QB/RB).

 

[FinNasty23]

Call it whatever you want Deus Irae.

The guy was drafted to run the ball. If you want to classify a guy that was drafted to run the ball, a QB... whatever works for you.

But he was not drafted to be the QB of our team. He was not drafted to compete with Chad Henne. He was drafted to run the ball.

And he can run very well...

 

[Deus Irae]

Pat White has only 2 pass attempts, and 10 rushing attempts. Thats probably the ratio of runs to passes he will have in his career... 5 to 1. He is not a QB. He is basically a RB, that has some throwing ability. Pat White will never line up behind center and run a traditional offense. He was not drafted to do so.

Tyler Thigpen was not running a 'traditional' offense last season. Tom Brady has not run much 'traditional' offense in recent years.

Pat White was drafted as a QB. He's listed as a QB by both the NFL and the Dolphins. He's been assigned a QB number. He's been used as an option-style QB in his limited playing time.

He's a QB. Pretending otherwise is just idiotic.

Oh, and you are right... there was a TE taken with the last pick in the 2nd round. You're right, we should have drafted him near the top of the 2nd... even though he hasnt caught a ball all season. Dude is a stud. What were we thinking?

1. You screwed up your assertion. Being snide about it afterwards doesn't suddenly make you right.

2.) The Broncos have good tight ends. Their top two tight ends are both better than anything the Dolphins have on their current roster at the position.

Pat White improves our running game in our Wildcat package... which we use more than any other team. Pat White was not drafted to improve our passing game. He was drafted to improve our running game. And he contributed 45 yards on a 7.5ypc and was part of a 15 yard rushing TD play this past Sunday.

How nice. Henne's a 'stud' who needs receivers, according to the post I was responding to. White was a stupid pick from that perspective.

Oh, and what position do you feel they needed to improve upon on the OL? We have 2 book end tackles, a great Center, a big FA acquisition at LG, and a young promising RG.

The entire interior of that line could be improved. Come on now, stay within the context of "Henne is a stud" and you'll realize how silly your arguments have been.

We drafted 3 offensive linemen last year (and 3 defensive linemen). Last years draft was about the trenches. This year's draft was more about the skill positions (ex - CBs, WRs, Wildcat QB/RB).

How nice. If Henne's a "stud", White's a stupid pick, unless the team is going to convert him to WR.

 

[Synovia]

Tyler Thigpen was not running a 'traditional' offense last season. Tom Brady has not run much 'traditional' offense in recent years.

Did Tyler thingpen rush the ball more than throw it? How bout Brady?

Pat White was drafted as a QB. He's listed as a QB by both the NFL and the Dolphins. He's been assigned a QB number. He's been used as an option-style QB in his limited playing time.

He's a QB. Pretending otherwise is just idiotic.

No, hes not a QB. QBs throw the ball. Pat white doesn't.

How nice. If Henne's a "stud", White's a stupid pick.

So, is Edelman a stupid pick because Brady is a stud?

 

[FinNasty23]

Tyler Thigpen was not running a 'traditional' offense last season. Tom Brady has not run much 'traditional' offense in recent years.

Pat White was drafted as a QB. He's listed as a QB by both the NFL and the Dolphins. He's been assigned a QB number. He's been used as an option-style QB in his limited playing time.

He's a QB. Pretending otherwise is just idiotic.



1. You screwed up your assertion. Being snide about it afterwards doesn't suddenly make you right.

2.) The Broncos have good tight ends. Their top two tight ends are both better than anything the Dolphins have on their current roster at the position.




How nice. Henne's a 'stud' who needs receivers, according to the post I was responding to. White was a stupid pick from that perspective.




The entire interior of that line could be improved. Come on now, stay within the context of "Henne is a stud" and you'll realize how silly your arguments have been.




How nice. If Henne's a "stud", White's a stupid pick, unless the team is going to convert him to WR.

Wait... so was Vontae Davis a stupid pick? I mean, we needed WRs. Sean Smith must have been a stupid pick too. We needed WRs!!! Any pick spent on anything other than a WR was a terrible pick. Forget improving anything else on the team.


Our CBs needed improvement, so we drafted to guys at the position. Our Wildcat package needed improvement, so we drafted a guy at the position.


I'm saying this one last time. In the draft... we COULD NOT UPGRADE OUR WR POSITION WITH THE PAT WHITE PICK. I dont know how clearer I have to say it. There werent WRs there for the taking.




Our entire OL needs upgrading? Do you know anything about our team?


I'm done. You think Pat White was drafted with the intention of having him throw the ball to WRs on a regular basis, lol. I cant argue with stupidity...

 

[Deus Irae]

Wait... so was Vontae Davis a stupid pick? I mean, we needed WRs. Sean Smith must have been a stupid pick too. We needed WRs!!! Any pick spent on anything other than a WR was a terrible pick. Forget improving anything else on the team.


Our CBs needed improvement, so we drafted to guys at the position. Our Wildcat package needed improvement, so we drafted a guy at the position.


I'm saying this one last time. In the draft... we COULD NOT UPGRADE OUR WR POSITION WITH THE PAT WHITE PICK. I dont know how clearer I have to say it. There werent WRs there for the taking.




Our entire OL needs upgrading? Do you know anything about our team?


I'm done. You think Pat White was drafted with the intention of having him throw the ball to WRs on a regular basis, lol. I cant argue with stupidity...

I'm sorry that you can't seem to grasp the concept of CONTEXT.

 

[Synovia]

I'm sorry that you can't seem to grasp the concept of CONTEXT.

Yeah, and we're all sorry that you can't admit when you're wrong.


Pat white isn't a quarterback. Theres a position, where the players run the ball lots, and occasionally throw it. Its call running back. Its not unheard of for players to play different positions in the NFL than they did in college.

 

[FinNasty23]

And with all that said... I hated the Pat White pick. The Pat White pick was dumb for a whole lot of reasons... but none of them are b/c we should have taken a WR (b/c there wasnt one at that spot to take) or that we were stupidly drafting a QB to compete with Henne (b/c Pat White has nothing to do with Henne. Pat White runs, Henne throws)



It was dumb b/c we should have taken a LB... particularly Clint Sintim...