A Bills fan with an example of what seperates the Patriots from his team

[Synovia]

But being picked in the 7th round doesn't necessarily say anthing about the player...look where Brady was picked...James Harrison went undrafted...there is a huge list there. Demetrius Bell is a guy that most people haven't heard of, so they assume things about him.

What being picked in the late round means is usually, the guy isn't ready to play in the NFL. Most of them never will be.

Now, Bell may be one of the few 7th rounders who is ready to play as a rookie, but thats really rare. This stinks of desperation and cost cutting.

James Harrison, Brady, etc, weren't asked to start week 1 of their rookie years.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

You should get a really high first round draft pick, and that's great...but not for this year. You'll miss Seymour this year. I can't see how anybody can say you won't. It's pretty obvious.

Secondly, a high draft pick doesn't automatically guarantee a quality player. We've seen it over and over again by every team. College is not the pros. Complete first round busts happen all the time, so this move is somewhat of a gamble. That's basically my point.

Again, why is it obvious?

In 2001, a certain dude named Ron thought the Pats blew their #6 pick on some dude from Georgia.

I was at the 2002 AFCCG, on the way home Tunch Ilchin noted he thought Seymour was a complete dog and couldn't believe how the Pats dominated both sides of the ball.

It's rather presumptuous to think BB has sacrificed 2009 in any way for a draft pick. On NFLN, Mayock noted Brace is perfectly qualified in Seymour's spot. I would also point out BB noted Seymour was discussed during the Burgess trade.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I understand the perception, and I'm certainly not going to try to argue that it's wrong. Coaching is huge...and BTW, the Patriots lost some coaches as well, although they still have BB.

But being picked in the 7th round doesn't necessarily say anthing about the player...look where Brady was picked...James Harrison went undrafted...there is a huge list there.

When I see 7th rounder, I assume we're talking about an extremely raw prospect. Someone with a bunch of upside if they can put the pieces together, but have significant enough question marks that you're not willing to bet too heavily on that happening. In Bell's case, I think that's pretty apt- he's clearly a very, very talented guy, who just doesn't have the football experience that most guys his age have. Now, he may be awesome this year, and it wouldn't be the first time that something like that has happened, but until I see something that makes me think he'll beat the odds, I gotta bet that he needs playing experience to develop into a real player. Not knocking his long-term potential or even his intermediate-term ceiling, which are both apparently very high, but later-round picks especially need to get out there and put in their hours on the field before they really develop into something.

Demetrius Bell is a guy that most people haven't heard of, so they assume things about him. The Bills got who a lot of people considered the best two Guards in the draft, and the oline is a place where rookies can come straight in and play well at.

One of the reasons why you can afford to have youth on an o-line is because they play as a cohesive unit. You can mask the inexperience of one by tapping other, more experienced guys to help him out. When you're starting 3 guys with very little experience, though, that not only precludes you from being able to do that, but also increases the likelihood of problems snowballing, as the other guys on the line are less likely to recognize and correct/compensate when someone screws up. In short, I think your OL is going to be terrible this week, and bad at best by the end of this year. If that's the price of quickly putting together what could become an exceptional line, though, then it's worth it.

 

[Synovia]

It's rather presumptuous to think BB has sacrificed 2009 in any way for a draft pick. On NFLN, Mayock noted Brace is perfectly qualified in Seymour's spot. I would also point out BB noted Seymour was discussed during the Burgess trade.

Why is it presumptuous to think that the patriots may have weakened the roster right now to strengthen it in the future?

The patriots do that every single time they trade out of this year's draft and into the next one. Its as simple as Belichick felt that he was weakening this team less than he was helping future years.


Seymour was discussed during the Burgess trade, but it was Oakland asking if he was available, not Belichick offering him up.

 

[shmessy]

BTW, Adalius Thomas is older than Seymour if I'm not mistaken. How do you feel about picking up Fred Taylor? He's 33...and a half.

If

1) Each of those guys were in their last year of contract and were threatening to bolt after if the Pats did not give them a longterm cap-busting contract

and

If

2) there was another senile GM out there who would gives us a top 15 1st round pick in a future ROOKIE CAP SLOTTED year,

THEN

3) Yes, I would trade each of those guys for a 2011 top 15 1st rounder in a millisecond.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Why is it presumptuous to think that the patriots may have weakened the roster right now to strengthen it in the future?

The patriots do that every single time they trade out of this year's draft and into the next one. Its as simple as Belichick felt that he was weakening this team less than he was helping future years.


Seymour was discussed during the Burgess trade, but it was Oakland asking if he was available, not Belichick offering him up.

No kidding. I think it's awfully presumptuous to assume that a rookie has a realistic chance at replacing Seymour in his first year, so I guess we all just have different definitions of the word

 

[Uncle Meat]

That's like an apples and oranges comparison, though, with the Bills O-Line depth chart. They have four guys who never started, young guys, rookies too.

Completely different ball of wax from guys who have started at least 16 NFL games.

Actually, the Bills have three players on the o-line that have never started, not four. Both of our Guards are highly-touted rookies, and our LT is a second year guy...these are the three. Geoff Hangartner, who we have at Center, has started 27 games for the Panthers. Then there is Brad Butler, who has started 29 games at RG in the three years he's been in Buffalo...only we are moving him over to RT, where he played in college.

So we only have one guy left over from last year, but he is playing a different position.

 

[Uncle Meat]

What being picked in the late round means is usually, the guy isn't ready to play in the NFL. Most of them never will be.

Now, Bell may be one of the few 7th rounders who is ready to play as a rookie, but thats really rare. This stinks of desperation and cost cutting.

James Harrison, Brady, etc, weren't asked to start week 1 of their rookie years.

Bell isn't a rookie.

 

[Synovia]

Bell isn't a rookie.

Thats a little better, but still, asking a 7th round pick, in his 2nd year, to play one of the toughest positions in football is a little rare.

 

[Uncle Meat]

When I see 7th rounder, I assume we're talking about an extremely raw prospect. Someone with a bunch of upside if they can put the pieces together, but have significant enough question marks that you're not willing to bet too heavily on that happening. In Bell's case, I think that's pretty apt- he's clearly a very, very talented guy, who just doesn't have the football experience that most guys his age have. Now, he may be awesome this year, and it wouldn't be the first time that something like that has happened, but until I see something that makes me think he'll beat the odds, I gotta bet that he needs playing experience to develop into a real player. Not knocking his long-term potential or even his intermediate-term ceiling, which are both apparently very high, but later-round picks especially need to get out there and put in their hours on the field before they really develop into something.

That's a valid and reasonable argument.

One of the reasons why you can afford to have youth on an o-line is because they play as a cohesive unit. You can mask the inexperience of one by tapping other, more experienced guys to help him out. When you're starting 3 guys with very little experience, though, that not only precludes you from being able to do that, but also increases the likelihood of problems snowballing, as the other guys on the line are less likely to recognize and correct/compensate when someone screws up. In short, I think your OL is going to be terrible this week, and bad at best by the end of this year. If that's the price of quickly putting together what could become an exceptional line, though, then it's worth it.

Again, this makes a certain amount of sense. That's part of the reason the Bills are going with the no-huddle this year, to mask the inexperience (if not weakness) of the o-line.

I don't assume the worst about something that's unproven, though. These guys are smart, and they DO have ability as well as some nastiness that the Bills have been lacking for quite some time.

 

[Synovia]

I don't assume the worst about something that's unproven, though. These guys are smart, and they DO have ability as well as some nastiness that the Bills have been lacking for quite some time.

You don't have to assume the worst to think the Bills line will be bad. Bad is about the normal projection. These things take time.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Thats a little better, but still, asking a 7th round pick, in his 2nd year, to play one of the toughest positions in football is a little rare.

That's not to say that it's a bad idea or will fail because it's not done that often. It's not even to say that he won't play exceptionally well this year. Personally, I love the move. Speaking of rare, that's what his story is.

The guy never played organized football until his third year at Northwestern State. His high school didn't have a football team, and he went to college on a basketball scholarship, which is pretty impressive for such a huge man...6'6" and 305 pounds. He has rare athletic ability for being that big. When he started playing football in college, he started out at DE, then moved over to LT the next two years, where he did well and always improved. This kid as a world of potential, and starting him now makes sense if he is going to realize that potential.

 

[Uncle Meat]

You don't have to assume the worst to think the Bills line will be bad. Bad is about the normal projection. These things take time.

You certainly do have to assume something if you draw conclusions based on zero evidence. Granted, you are probably right based on common sense, at least for the time being. Then again, they play the game for a reason. The line certainly could have looked better in the preseason. But the Bills line was bad last year, so if what you said is true, it'll be the same-old, same-old...only this line has a lot of potential to grow. I don't discount the possibility that at least some of these guys on the line will be very good by year's end.

 

[Synovia]

You certainly do have to assume something if you draw conclusions based on zero evidence. Granted, you are probably right based on common sense, at least for the time being. Then again, they play the game for a reason. The line certainly could have looked better in the preseason. But the Bills line was bad last year, so if what you said is true, it'll be the same-old, same-old...only this line has a lot of potential to grow. I don't discount the possibility that at least some of these guys on the line will be very good by year's end.

What I'm saying, is that assuming the worst from a bunch of low drafted first and second year players is assuming that the line is going to get absolutely destroyed.


If they are "slightly below average", they had a great year.

 

[Uncle Meat]

What I'm saying, is that assuming the worst from a bunch of low drafted first and second year players is assuming that the line is going to get absolutely destroyed.

That would be true, but that's not exactly the situation. Our Guards are the only rookies, but they were both high picks: first and second rounds...not "low drafted." It's not out of the question both these guys will be good immediately. Bell, the 7th rounder, again, is in his 2nd year. Although he has no experience really, he's looked good. Butler is in his 4th year with 26 starts...Hangartner has 29 starts and appeared in 54 games in Carolina. He's going into his fifth year. All these guys could be good. Like someone mentioned, how quickly or even if they can gel as a unit is an issue as well.

BTW, word has it that Jon Runyan is on a plane to Buffalo for an interview right now. That could help.

If they are "slightly below average", they had a great year.

Despite what I just said, I agree with this part, especially considering the difficulty of schedule. If the line is average this year, I'd be happy with that...and look out for them next year. The Bills are pretty stacked with skill players right now. An average, or slightly below average, line is something they might be able to deal with, especially in the no-huddle...if THAT works.

Anyway, it's going to be an interesting year, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. Truth is, nobody knows.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison were all essentially gone last year. Bruschi was the 3rd best ILB behind Mayo and Guyton. Vrable was the 3rd best OLB behind Thomas and Woods. Harrison played in 6 games, and Sanders and Merriweather were both better then him.


If you wanted to talk about them replacing starters, it was last year. Guyton, Mayo, Merriweather, Sanders, Woods, etc are all returning starters at this point.

Synovia,

That is a wonderful summary of the situation. Last season was the "Hale and Farewell" transition (key word!) to a new generation of defensive players.

Despite the addition of some 20 new players,who all appear to be genuine keepers, via draft, FA, or UDFA, not a single one, save vet FA Bodden, and a rookie LS on ST, are starting.

Last year was considerably different. The Pats started two rookie ILBs, a first time starter at OLB, a promising sophomore at S, and two rookies at CB, while moving a vet to the other OLB position.

Wow. That's a Big change. Everyone of those youngsters flashed, at least a bit.

The 2008 Defense with all that inexperience finished astoundingly as the Top Tenth/Top Eighth, despite that transition.

This year all those players are no longer rookies but experienced, young veteran starters. This is more the consolidation year, with additional talent and rebuilt reserves added, as the new starters moved up.

Seymour will be missed, no question,about that. Unlike the other veterans, he is just entering his Prime. He was also responsible for more than one fourth of the Team's sack production. It will detract from this years Superbowl pursuit, but how much?