PostGame Thread 2023 Week 4: Patriots Lose to the Cowboys 38-3 - PostGame Thread

[Patsfan1958]

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Btw lost in all the Mac Jones debate is how bad the running game has been this year.

It's not lost. It's a part of it. What happens to a QB when nobody is worried about the run game?

 

[Lagaffe_07]

It's not lost. It's a part of it. What happens to a QB when nobody is worried about the run game?

To be honest, I think we are more in the case of : what happens to the run game when nobody is worried about the QB.

Teams are not afraid of Mac so they stack the box and force him to throw. Every team knows that if they can stop the run against us we are screwed.

The plan is quite simple against us. Stack the box, play man and we can’t do anything.

 

[RodThePat]

To be honest, I think we are more in the case of : what happens to the run game when nobody is worried about the QB.

Teams are not afraid of Mac so they stack the box and force him to throw. Every team knows that if they can stop the run against us we are screwed.

The plan is quite simple against us. Stack the box, play man and we can’t do anything.

Yup. Squat on every route, play down on receivers, focus on the middle of the field and dare Mac/that WR corps to beat you over the top or towards the sidelines. They are the worst passing offense in football against man coverage, they'll see a lot of it. They'll have to earn lighter boxes to make things easier for the running game.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Yup. Squat on every route, play down on receivers, focus on the middle of the field and dare Mac/that WR corps to beat you over the top or towards the sidelines.7

since mac can not throw outside the numbers especially to his right side due to his lack of mechanics Teams can stack the box and cover the MOF nearly at the same time. Just move the S closer to the LOS and you can do both at the same time.
Orlovsky said it in their show, Mac INT to Bland (which was not the pick 6) wasn't a bad decision, it was a bad throw and not accurate due to his footwork and mechanics. Just watch him making this throw and you see Orlovsky is on point there. It looks really awful.

They are the worst passing offense in football against man coverage, they'll see a lot of it. They'll have to earn lighter boxes to make things easier for the running game.

 

[sb1]

Or for Justin Fields straight-up? The money exchanged would be practically identical.

Both get a change of scenery? Couldn’t hurt.

 

[sb1]

Btw lost in all the Mac Jones debate is how bad the running game has been this year.

Stunning regression from Stevenson. He’s not the same guy this year. Some of that is on the OL but he just looks slow and more tentative ala Maroney. I don’t think anyone expected that.

 

[1960Pats]

Me, too, my friend. My absolute favorite plays for sure.

Might I interest you in some therapy that always manages to put a smile on my face in times like this:


God I loved 2015 Dion.

EDIT: just rewatched again and GOD I LOVE THAT DALLAS PLAY HOLYSHIT IT'S SO AWESOME (the 3:03 minute highlight)

Thanks.

When I was a kid the NYFL would force feed us NY Giants games on the boob tube. Once they played the Browns and I saw Jimmy Brown I became a Browns fan until the Pats were born. I also really enjoyed watching Gayle Sayers who was a more shifty back than Brown.

 

[upstater1]

Damn, looks like the team can’t give up more than 14 points a game because this team can’t score and finish drives. Very telling.

An offensive coach ain’t going to fix this dumpster fire. BB the GM has been crippling this team with poor draft picks on the offensive side of the ball. Whoever takes over this team will have a long road ahead to fix things through the draft. We will have a painful few years if Kraft doesn’t get rid of BB by the end of this year.

What poor draft picks? You're talking about one pick, Tyquan Thornton? Just one? Yes, it was poor. But if that's what you're hanging your hat on, look at the draft. 6 of the 7 WRs taken in the 1st 2 rounds are busts or doing nothing.

 

[upstater1]

Pop tried to teach the man how to Dougie, 6 just couldn't keep up.

I fail to understand why he isn't on the field at all times. 15 out of 55 snaps. JuJu had 26, for reference. If Douglas has a weakness, get creative on how to coach him out of it, or scheme him differently.

He's young, he played for low major Liberty, he didn't play big time ball, even though Liberty was an excellent team, they played weak competition, they lost to UConn for heaven's sake.

He needs to learn NFL plays--there is nothing surprising about this. Let him get some seasoning. Hopefully it won't take as long as it took Edelman.

 

[upstater1]

Sad thing is, they said specifically they've been targeting speed... Of course, the highlights there are Thornton (perpetually injured) and Strong (traded after a year).

We've prioritized defense and BPA, and I find nothing wrong with that. We also prioritized OL, and that's good too. Next year it's time for WRs in the draft. One pick in Thornton is not going to cut it. We need more.

 

[Satchboogie3]

It's amazing how short people's memories are.
I can remember Brady having 4 interception games during his career with the Defense bailing him out to make the games not quite as bad of a Loss.

Losing Judon for the season and Gonzalez for any length of time is going to screw this season quite a bit.

Difference is that it's now year 3 and things are going backwards. Brady looked solid year one and made the clutch drive to win a Superbowl. Year 2 he led the league in TDs. Year 3 he was 3rd in MVP voting and won his 2nd Superbowl. Mac has shown absolutely nothing to suggest he's even a mediocre QB, let alone a Superbowl caliber Franchise QB.

 

[upstater1]

Or for Justin Fields straight-up? The money exchanged would be practically identical.

All you need is someone withy a little bit of guts so the rest of the team doesn't let down. Who is the better stand-up guy? Kyler has attitude problems. Fields mouthed off about his coaching.

 

[lancerman]

To be honest, I think we are more in the case of : what happens to the run game when nobody is worried about the QB.

Teams are not afraid of Mac so they stack the box and force him to throw. Every team knows that if they can stop the run against us we are screwed.

The plan is quite simple against us. Stack the box, play man and we can’t do anything.

Issue is this was supposed to be a defensive run heavy ground and pound style team. The running game is bottom 10 in rushing yards, bottom 5 in yards per carry, bottom 5 in rushing TD's and 21st in rushing 1st downs.

The passing game is actually closer to being league average right now than the running game. On pure productivity, our run game is easily the weakest part of the offense and it isn't even close.

 

[upstater1]

How he's handled the roster since 2018 has been one mistake after another.

Drafting Harry, replacing Gronk with Ben Watson, pushing Brady out the door, replacing Brady with Cam Newton. Then letting mcdaniels go and replacing him with Patricia. Then ignoring the offense all these years.

This is the definition of a spoiled fanbase.

We just had the Patriots rated one of the top 3 drafting teams in the league the last several years.

Gronk? Seriously?

Brady?

Why did we sign Cam Newton? Did it have to do with $1m for a QB because we loaded up 2020 with the bills from being over the cap for the last Super Bowl? Yes.

As for Harry, he was a bad pick. That position WR has a very low success rate of 33%. Look at the Harry draft, 5 WRs of the 9 taken in those first 2 rounds have BUSTED. Just like the Tyquan pick. 6 of the 7 players taken in the first 2 rounds have BUSTED or done nothing.

The proof of a good drafter is how many GOOD players you've added, not how many were busts. Every team has busts, every team.

Every team must cycle and rebuild. You can't stay at the top of the league forever. And as the Patriots jettisoned their entire team except for David Andrews and Deatrich Wise (who didn't even play back then), there is no way on earth Brady would've helped things. He would've delayed the inevitable and gone out a sad version of himself. Not to mention that Brady showed up on Ross's boat prior to 2019 season in an effort to get Flores to tank.

The important thing is to add good players like Dugger, Uche, Anfernee, Onwenu, Rham, Barmore, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, Gonzalez, Keion White, Judon, Peppers, all the depth pieces I haven't mentioned.

It's fine to criticize the Tyquan pick, but put it in context. It's also fine to say we should've taken more WRs (because that's what it takes to find a good one) but would you risk that 33% hit rate when you have Gonzalez staring you in the face? Or heck, you had to take Mac Jones at #15 as well. These decisions aren't made in a vacuum.

It's bad that Mac Jones has blown up on us. But that's life in the NFL. I looked at the success rate for 1st round QBs in the NFL the last 10 years. It's 16 BUSTS and 6 HITS. Mac is one of the busts. This stuff happens. There was no way to know 4 of the 5 QBs in that draft would bust, and there may still be hope for Justin Fields, while Trevor Lawrence's wild inaccuracy is reminding us of 2nd year Josh Allen. That doesn't mean Lawrence is on the way to becoming Allen. He may be the next Carson Wentz. You just don't know what you're getting. If you did, you'd dominate the league

 

[upstater1]

Issue is this was supposed to be a defensive run heavy ground and pound style team. The running game is bottom 10 in rushing yards, bottom 5 in yards per carry, bottom 5 in rushing TD's and 21st in rushing 1st downs.

The passing game is actually closer to being league average right now than the running game. On pure productivity, our run game is easily the weakest part of the offense and it isn't even close.

I don't think this counters what the previous poster was saying. Teams try to shut down our running game because they're not afraid of the QB. This leaves more space for him to throw. Unless he's careless with the ball and giving it away constantly, even average QBs can hurt a defense a little bit.

 

[upstater1]

since mac can not throw outside the numbers especially to his right side due to his lack of mechanics Teams can stack the box and cover the MOF nearly at the same time. Just move the S closer to the LOS and you can do both at the same time.
Orlovsky said it in their show, Mac INT to Bland (which was not the pick 6) wasn't a bad decision, it was a bad throw and not accurate due to his footwork and mechanics. Just watch him making this throw and you see Orlovsky is on point there. It looks really awful.

Even worse: why isn't he set? Because he's afraid. And the rest of his teammates know it, even though they don't submarine the team like the Jets players do.

 

[lancerman]

I don't think this counters what the previous poster was saying. Teams try to shut down our running game because they're not afraid of the QB. This leaves more space for him to throw. Unless he's careless with the ball and giving it away constantly, even average QBs can hurt a defense a little bit.

It works the other way around too. Teams that have no fear of the run game can play man like they tend to on Mac and it exploits a pretty weak WR corp.

Realistic it's a mix of everything.

-the run game is let down by the crappy line.
-the pass game is hampered by the lack of being able to commit to the run and the poor offensive line play leading to collapsed pockets very fast.
-the WR's can't get much separation against man coverage.
-on top of all of that Mac still makes some mistakes and is prone for a boneheaded play and a misplaced ball every couple of plays.
-on top of that the WR's have missed some easy plays like the sideline catches and the should have been TD in the first drive of the Cowboys game
-then you have how undisciplined this offense is with penalties.

In truth, this is just a very poorly constructed offense.

 

[libra957]

Stephen A Smith said that Belichick stole a year of Mac Jones career with the stunt he pulled last year, I 1000% agree.

 

[upstater1]

It works the other way around too. Teams that have no fear of the run game can play man like they tend to on Mac and it exploits a pretty weak WR corp.

Realistic it's a mix of everything.

-the run game is let down by the crappy line.
-the pass game is hampered by the lack of being able to commit to the run and the poor offensive line play leading to collapsed pockets very fast.
-the WR's can't get much separation against man coverage.
-on top of all of that Mac still makes some mistakes and is prone for a boneheaded play and a misplaced ball every couple of plays.
-on top of that the WR's have missed some easy plays like the sideline catches and the should have been TD in the first drive of the Cowboys game
-then you have how undisciplined this offense is with penalties.

In truth, this is just a very poorly constructed offense.

I agree with everything but the last part.

We need a WR and a QB.

That will solve everything.

QB remains the crucial position in the game and it impacts everything.

The offense was constructed with a t least a mediocre QB in mind. That shouldn't have been too much to ask. It's the least you hope for, and if you don't get it, you're done.

We've taken one shot at WR in the last several drafts and it hasn't worked out. We have to commit more resources this year.

If, say, we had taken Pickens, then suddenly Bourne, Parker, Douglas and even Boutte would look good, and things would open up.

2 players is all it takes.