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2004 team would have beaten 2007 any day of the week

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Lifer, Jul 15, 2012.

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  1. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    The hypothetical thread made me think about this again. I dont worry about the 19-0 loss because that team wasnt as good as the 2004 team anyway. A fluke loss on monday night in Miami and the loss to an excellent Steelers team in Pittsburgh without Corey Dillon after winning 21 straight wins and due for a loss was all that seperated that team from perfection. This was the most dominant Patriots team, it didnt rely solely on Brady throwing for 400 yards, it had the best one season running back we ever had, and that postseason was epic. The signature game of the dynasty, beating the Colts 20-3. Then destroying the top defensive team in football in Pittsburgh. Then beating a really good Eagles team. 2004 they were everything i could ever ask for in a football team, talented, full of heart, clutch. The greatest Patriots team ever.
  2. serifyn

    serifyn Rookie

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    .....Okay?

    The final 2 minutes of Superbowl 42 were still the most Soulcrushing string of plays that i have ever witnessed or will ever witness, there is nothing i ever wanted more than a perfect season after Spygate and a dopey looking quarterback and a 5th string receiver with glue on his helmet took it all away.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  3. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    Colts #1 O to 3 points
    Steelers #1 D allowing 41.
    In the playoffs.

    Sick. Brady as the QB + a power running game and a tough,smart veteran D. That's a team that could beat anybody.
  4. sly24

    sly24 Rookie

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    I don't even know why I'm getting into this. How on earth did 07 rely on Brady throwing for 400 yards? The Pats that year finished 4th in total defense and 4th in points allowed. 2007 was also clutch. Off the top of my head I can think of the ravens game and the giants game which they came back late to win. Remove that series of miracles in the SB (asante dropped int, miracle catch over the hitman) and we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'd still take 07 over any team ever.
  5. NSPF

    NSPF Rookie

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    Do we really need a thread for these? Couldn't you have just kept it in the other thread?
  6. Pessimistic Pete

    Pessimistic Pete Rookie

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    Trying to think of Belichick vs Belichick and Brady vs Brady makes my head explode and I'm unable to come to a conclusion.
  7. BaltimorePatsFan

    BaltimorePatsFan Rookie

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    The 07 team was absolutely dominant during the first half of the season but in the 2nd half the defense was extremely vulnerable and the team started relying more and more on Brady's arm. AJ Feeley, Kyle Boller, Eli Manning, and David Garrard (in the postseason) all had little trouble putting up points on the board against the defense.
  8. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    It would have been fun to see the 2007 Offense go against the 2004 Defense.
  9. Sivy

    Sivy Rookie

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    Any day huh? Doubt it
  10. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    I think Fridays would be especially tough:rolleyes:
  11. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    …except Sunday.
  12. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    [​IMG]

    2007 team on the subject.

    People underestimate how well rounded that 2007 team was. Especially while we had a healthy RB group before Morris went down.

    The fact that we clearly match up horribly with the New York Giants should not undermine what a dominant squad that team was.
  13. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I don't know about any day of the week, head to head who knows really. The 2007 team was more dangerous. The 2004 team was better built for playoff football. If I had one year to win a SB, I'd take the 2004 roster. Our defensive core was pretty much all in the prime of their careers and dominant at the most important time against top competition. Whereas in the 2007 version, you had Bruschi and Rodney definitely on the decline. Vrabel was arguably on the decline since midway through 2007 when his #'s plummeted in the 2nd and and we saw in the 2008 season that he was in full decline by then. Seau was a great role player being counted on to play a bigger role due to poor LB depth and Colvin's injury (LB is an area where the 2004 team really destroys 2007). Neither secondary was anything special aside from one player on each version (Rodney in '04, Asante in '07 though he crapped his pants in the biggest moments). The 2007 defense performed admirably in the playoffs but the opposition was nothing to sneeze at, 2004 version performed better and did it against much better teams. Dillon is another major key, Maroney had his moments but obviously not a guy I'd count on to protect leads. Better coaching staff as well.
  14. TheBeers

    TheBeers Rookie

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    It would be great fun to load both teams in a madden sim and run it 100 times.
  15. Observer

    Observer Rookie

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    What a ridiculous notion. Was it not for a once-in-a-lifetime helmet catch, this question could not even be imagined. The 2007 team won every single game and would have won the last had it not been for a freak accident. They were one play away from being the greatest NFL team in history. History loves winners but let's not be so eager to undermine the accomplishments of 2007 already.
  16. PatsGirl2011

    PatsGirl2011 Rookie

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    I freaking LOVED the 2004 team, but I would take the 2007 hands down . The main difference between the two teams was the 2007 just was too dominant too early in the season if that makes sense. They peaked too early, and it was too difficult to maintain the dominance through 19 games especially when teams was trying to end the undefeated streak. I know we can play the what if game, but I think IF the 2007 actually lost a game during the regular season like the Baltimore game, they would have cruised to the SB. We can say they don't match up with the Giants, but people forgot how TB killed them like a month prior in NY. The Giants just had a great game plan going in that worked. I honestly wasn't that shocked they lost because they struggled to beat SD and Jax in the AFC rounds... They just ran out of gas in the SB sadly.
  17. TheComeback

    TheComeback Rookie

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    The 2007 defense was never at a point where they were "extremely vulnerable." We wouldn't have made it to the SB if it weren't for the defense winning the game against San Diego.

    And if the last two years are any indication, having a great offense doesn't magically help your defense get ranked 4th in the league.

    People have a grudge against that defense because of the last drive of the SB, where we lost because of a string of semi-miraculous plays for the Giants.
  18. bagwell368

    bagwell368 Rookie

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    I think it's more simple than that: Morris getting hurt. Time of possession and plays per game went down, put more long term pressure on the D.

    I'll take 2007 under 2007 rules, and 2004 under 2004 rules.
  19. bagwell368

    bagwell368 Rookie

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    Fact that BB and coaches screwed the pooch by not changing the offensive line calls from the prior game and went with too many mid/deep passes against that DL lost that game, that and Morris going down.

    Last year it was the injuries and the drop. Brady was 20 for 24 before he got hit and Gronk shouldn't have been on the field at all.

    I want the Giants again, and if so, we win 45-13.
  20. PatsGirl2011

    PatsGirl2011 Rookie

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    Thank you! Gronk obviously should've never played IMO! That was clear early on...He was more of a liability than anything. And when people say Brady struggled in the SB I laugh. He was killing the Giants at one point. The Pats dropped the ball basically in the game figuratively and literally.
  21. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Are they hypothetically playing under pre-2005 or post-2004 "points of emphasis"? Because if they're playing with the post-2004 rules, the 2007 team would win easily.
  22. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    I still think that Colvin's injury is criminally underrated by people who talk down the 2007 team. When he was healthy, they were as close to unbeatable as we're likely to ever see.
  23. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    OK but then by your logic the 2004 team gets Ty Law & Ty Poole back at starting CBs and Asante and Gay downshift into the nickel and dime assignments. Does the 04 team get Ben Watson too?

    Can't go by injuries and the woulda-couldas. Both teams were great.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  24. MP-Logick

    MP-Logick Rookie

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    Let's be honest, this argument isn't based off anything other than "the 2004 team won the Super Bowl and the 2007 team didn't so obviously the 2004 team had some intrinsic value that the 2007 team lacked." It's usually Red Sox beat writers that come up with stupid stuff like this.

    Of course the 2004 team could have beaten the 2007 team. More likely with both teams at full health they probably wouldn't have.
  25. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    The answer is yes. The more compelling question is out of 10 games, how many times does the 01 team beat the 04 or 07 teams. 3 times maybe?
  26. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    The harsh reality is that the 07 team is probably the best football team we will ever see, and almost certainly the best Patriots team. It is harsh because the team failed to win the big game, a game they easily could have won if they'd played even close to their potential. But, they lost.

    I'd still argue that the '07 team was the best team of all-time. There's a difference between how good a team is and how accomplished a team is. The '07 team certainly did not accomplish more than any other NFL team, but the question is, if Vegas were to put up odds on a neutral field, theoretically, would any team be favored to beat them? I highly doubt it. I believe that's how you would determine the "best" team of all-time, although maybe not the "greatest" or "most accomplished". It's semantics.

    There's always luck involved with any team. That's why, even the juggernauts we've seen have less than a 50% chance, and at best, maybe a 30% chance, to win the Super Bowl, even though they might be hands down the best team in the league. The fact is that there are always two teams on the field, one will win, the other will lose. This isn't basketball, baseball, or hockey, and you don't get to come back from a loss.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  27. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The 2004 team played under those rules as well. And I think that they would have given the '07 squad an EPIC run for their money. But I would have the '07 squad winning 7 games if the two teams played 10 straight.
  28. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    It's not just that, the 2004 team was a wrecking machine in the playoffs and beat 3 elite teams, 2 of those wins were very convincing. Played their best football when it mattered. The 2007 team faced a way lighter road to a championship: Mediocre Jacksonville, injury depleted Chargers, and a 10-6 team and still was not that convincing in either win, then ultimately losing. The 2004 team had that killer instinct I haven't seen in any other Patriot team, even the '03 team wasn't as fierce IMO.

    Let's not forget just how good that 2004 team was. 1 of the 2 losses was without Dilllon/Branch, plus that's the game Law suddenly goes down and we didn't have any answers. Once the secondary moved on and solidified the team was damn near unstoppable. The only other loss was a fluke in Miami where we got a bit careless with a late double digit lead. That team could've easily been 18-1 too and who knows if we weren't depleted for Pittsburgh.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  29. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Yes, this is a common misconception. I often see it when people talk about the 20-3 beatdown in the divisional round thinking it was before the rule change, then after that the Colts started to have our number. Another thing is I believe Richard Seymour didn't play in this game or the AFCC in Pittsburgh which make it all the more amazing.
  30. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #95 Jersey

    what a thread...
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