What's with all the big bodies?

Was just reading an article about how the Patriots appear to be shifting to more of a 3-4 than 4-3 (which to me, is all just a bunch of BS anyway, because BB seems to do whatever week to week and is more multiple than anything). But, when looking at the roster and our DL....we have alot of meat up front. Valentine, Branch, Brown, Knighton are all locks. Clearly BB has deviated from the smaller, quicker type of DT and seems to be valuing these types of guys more. I'm sure he has a plan, and am not questioning him per se....just playing devil's advocate here. What are everyone's thoughts?

Also, as it stands right now (and I am very excited about this season), but I'm beginning to think on paper that this is the deepest and most talented team we've had (assuming good health). We are really built well to withstand injuries and if there ever was a year to win it all, this is the one. Especially considering all the guys we are likely to lose at end of the season, combined with the fact that alot of these guys are playing for big contracts. You've got to like our chances. The injury bug screwed us last year...but we seem to be much better built if that happens again this year.

WR: Edelman, Amendola, Mitchell, Martin, Dobson?
-Pretty solid 5 man group there

TE: Gronk, Bennett, Harbor
-Best TE combination in league by a MILE

RB: Lewis, Blount, ??
-No idea who makes it after these two...clearly our weakest and thinnest spot on team. But, not end of world.

QB: Brady, Garropolo, Brissett
- Nothing to add here.

OL: Vollmer, Solder, Mason, Cooper, Kline, Jackson, Thuney, Waddle, Stork, Andrews
- Vollmer's age and health worry me some but we are stacked at G and C. Competition in camp is going to be furious here.

Safety: Mccourty, Chung, Harmon, Richards
- Extremely solid 4 guys here. Would love to see Richards emerge. I forget he was a 3rd round pick a year ago.

CB: Butler, Ryan, Roberts, Cy Jones, Coleman, Johnathan JoneS?
- Again, very solid...but any injury to Butler and I'm worried. Can we please lock him up?

LB: Hightower, Collins, Mcclellin, ??
- Two STUDS at LB. Mcclellin a question mark, and beyond him we have zero. But still very happy with this group.

DE: Long, Sheard, Nink, Grissom, Flowers, Johnson
- Very solid here as well. Can't wait to see Flowers in TC. Imagine if we still had Jones?

DT: Branch, Knighton, Brown, Valentine

Our offense is going to be stellar. We know that. But I Think this D has a chance to be dynamite as well. Having 90 percent back is major. Can't wait to see this team this year but I really want to see a few of our defensive guys locked up long term before the year.

Christian said:

Was just reading an article about how the Patriots appear to be shifting to more of a 3-4 than 4-3 (which to me, is all just a bunch of BS anyway, because BB seems to do whatever week to week and is more multiple than anything). But, when looking at the roster and our DL....we have alot of meat up front. Valentine, Branch, Brown, Knighton are all locks. Clearly BB has deviated from the smaller, quicker type of DT and seems to be valuing these types of guys more. I'm sure he has a plan, and am not questioning him per se....just playing devil's advocate here. What are everyone's thoughts?

Also, as it stands right now (and I am very excited about this season), but I'm beginning to think on paper that this is the deepest and most talented team we've had (assuming good health). We are really built well to withstand injuries and if there ever was a year to win it all, this is the one. Especially considering all the guys we are likely to lose at end of the season, combined with the fact that alot of these guys are playing for big contracts. You've got to like our chances. The injury bug screwed us last year...but we seem to be much better built if that happens again this year.

WR: Edelman, Amendola, Mitchell, Martin, Dobson?
-Pretty solid 5 man group there

TE: Gronk, Bennett, Harbor
-Best TE combination in league by a MILE

RB: Lewis, Blount, ??
-No idea who makes it after these two...clearly our weakest and thinnest spot on team. But, not end of world.

QB: Brady, Garropolo, Brissett
- Nothing to add here.

OL: Vollmer, Solder, Mason, Cooper, Kline, Jackson, Thuney, Waddle, Stork, Andrews
- Vollmer's age and health worry me some but we are stacked at G and C. Competition in camp is going to be furious here.

Safety: Mccourty, Chung, Harmon, Richards
- Extremely solid 4 guys here. Would love to see Richards emerge. I forget he was a 3rd round pick a year ago.

CB: Butler, Ryan, Roberts, Cy Jones, Coleman, Johnathan JoneS?
- Again, very solid...but any injury to Butler and I'm worried. Can we please lock him up?

LB: Hightower, Collins, Mcclellin, ??
- Two STUDS at LB. Mcclellin a question mark, and beyond him we have zero. But still very happy with this group.

DE: Long, Sheard, Nink, Grissom, Flowers, Johnson
- Very solid here as well. Can't wait to see Flowers in TC. Imagine if we still had Jones?

DT: Branch, Knighton, Brown, Valentine

Our offense is going to be stellar. We know that. But I Think this D has a chance to be dynamite as well. Having 90 percent back is major. Can't wait to see this team this year but I really want to see a few of our defensive guys locked up long term before the year.

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A few "experts" have had articles on this--its BB once again playing chess to everyone elses' checkers, with all the big-bodied dts. It has NOTHING to do with 3-4 or 4-3, since neither of those is used that much anyway. It IS about a rule change-chop blocks have now been completely banned. Before, they were only illegal in certain situations, but legal in many others. Ok, what were chop blocks used for before? Stopping monsters like pot roast et al from steamrolling your ol. They can no longer do that. So now, not just pot roast, but mbrown,branch, valentine-a bunch of big dts that can no longer be chopblocked. The key is having not just one or two, but a bunch-so you can rotate them and wear down an ol. The ol will be wrestling with these guys for 4 quarters-and if , like the pats, you got a constant supply of fresh, big dts-most ols will wilt under the pressure. so teams will be unable to run the ball, making them even more predictable and easier to defend. Thats the theory, anyway, but it makes sense and alot of people who know football agree. Polian, of all scumbags, called BB's move "genius". and it doesnt seem like anybody else followed Bbs lead. So with our dl, added to the monster run-stopping duo of high and jamie, not to mention GREAT runstopping secondary, it should be good.

jimnance said:

A few "experts" have had articles on this--its BB once again playing chess to everyone elses' checkers, with all the big-bodied dts. It has NOTHING to do with 3-4 or 4-3, since neither of those is used that much anyway. It IS about a rule change-chop blocks have now been completely banned. Before, they were only illegal in certain situations, but legal in many others. Ok, what were chop blocks used for before? Stopping monsters like pot roast et al from steamrolling your ol. They can no longer do that. So now, not just pot roast, but mbrown,branch, valentine-a bunch of big dts that can no longer be chopblocked. The key is having not just one or two, but a bunch-so you can rotate them and wear down an ol. The ol will be wrestling with these guys for 4 quarters-and if , like the pats, you got a constant supply of fresh, big dts-most ols will wilt under the pressure. so teams will be unable to run the ball, making them even more predictable and easier to defend. Thats the theory, anyway, but it makes sense and alot of people who know football agree. Polian, of all scumbags, called BB's move "genius". and it doesnt seem like anybody else followed Bbs lead. So with our dl, added to the monster run-stopping duo of high and jamie, not to mention GREAT runstopping secondary, it should be good.

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I wonder if this means we'll start perceiving big DTs as more than just run stuffers if they can more easily get into the backfield.

KontradictioN said:

Bill Belichick and the Patriots hope DT Terrance Knighton can take advantage of a rule change

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Beat me to it.

Elijah said:

I wonder if this means we'll start perceiving big DTs as more than just run stuffers if they can more easily get into the backfield.

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Malcolm Brown has definitely shown some of that, as has pot roast, but its really not their main roles since pats 2gap so much. There have been plenty of bigbodied dts that consistently disrupted o backfields tho.

Interesting. Didn't know any of that about chop blocking etc. Its very obvious he is stockpiling these types of DTs so clearly there is some sort of reasoning behind it. It's interesting because he seemed to be going the opposite way the last few years.

Really like what I've heard out of Knighton so far. Obviously its wayyyy early but he seems like a real vocal type of leader. We've got alot of those guys on defense now. Good group of veterans combined with young guys and also guys in their prime. Depth is so important though...we all know that; and this Patriot team seems to be the deepest at just about every position as I can remember.

Christian said:

Interesting. Didn't know any of that about chop blocking etc. Its very obvious he is stockpiling these types of DTs so clearly there is some sort of reasoning behind it. It's interesting because he seemed to be going the opposite way the last few years.

Really like what I've heard out of Knighton so far. Obviously its wayyyy early but he seems like a real vocal type of leader. We've got alot of those guys on defense now. Good group of veterans combined with young guys and also guys in their prime. Depth is so important though...we all know that; and this Patriot team seems to be the deepest at just about every position as I can remember.

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I agree- maybe the deepest pats team ive ever seen.

When everyone goes in 1 direction, BB picks a new direction to counter their moves/match-ups (naturally it depends upon his scheduled and probably more specific to the AFCE).

One, he's better able to play to his strengths and
Two, more talent generally available if everyone is looking for a certain type of player and BB goes in another direction. Thus he accumulates higher talent per dollar spent and fills his team with more depth.

Man I want a ride in BBs hot-tub

jimnance said:

A few "experts" have had articles on this--its BB once again playing chess to everyone elses' checkers, with all the big-bodied dts. It has NOTHING to do with 3-4 or 4-3, since neither of those is used that much anyway. It IS about a rule change-chop blocks have now been completely banned. Before, they were only illegal in certain situations, but legal in many others. Ok, what were chop blocks used for before? Stopping monsters like pot roast et al from steamrolling your ol. They can no longer do that. So now, not just pot roast, but mbrown,branch, valentine-a bunch of big dts that can no longer be chopblocked. The key is having not just one or two, but a bunch-so you can rotate them and wear down an ol. The ol will be wrestling with these guys for 4 quarters-and if , like the pats, you got a constant supply of fresh, big dts-most ols will wilt under the pressure. so teams will be unable to run the ball, making them even more predictable and easier to defend. Thats the theory, anyway, but it makes sense and alot of people who know football agree. Polian, of all scumbags, called BB's move "genius". and it doesnt seem like anybody else followed Bbs lead. So with our dl, added to the monster run-stopping duo of high and jamie, not to mention GREAT runstopping secondary, it should be good.

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Or to put it in layman's terms so that the haters, Omissioners, and ex-Rat employees can understand, "BB is cheating again"!

Body shamer!

The Gr8est said:

Or to put it in layman's terms so that the haters, Omissioners, and ex-Rat employees can understand, "BB is cheating again"!

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Exactly! BTW,hope your avatar is doin ok. Heard hes pretty sick. One of my all-time favorite athletes, both as an athlete and a man. He spread a lot of goodwill all over the world. I wonder how much more of an impact he could have had w/o parkinsons. I really beleive he couldve helped us in the mideast.

PP2 said:

Beat me to it.

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Me too.

Maybe others can enlighten me, but I don't get where the "return to the old 3-4" talk is coming from. IMO none of the big DTs seem like natural 5-techs -- they're huge, but on the model of 4-3 DTs.

Combine the massive DLs, the blocking rule change, the loss of Chandler Jones, who was the purest 4-3 DE on the roster, and the shrinking usage of 7-man fronts...I keep picturing a base with essentially a 2-man line that can still be stout against the run.

patchick said:

Maybe others can enlighten me, but I don't get where the "return to the old 3-4" talk is coming from. IMO none of the big DTs seem like natural 5-techs -- they're huge, but on the model of 4-3 DTs.

Combine the massive DLs, the blocking rule change, the loss of Chandler Jones, who was the purest 4-3 DE on the roster, and the shrinking usage of 7-man fronts...I keep picturing a base with essentially a 2-man line that can still be stout against the run.

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I also don't see a change in what he is getting at the DT spot.
Except for Easley the players we have at DT look like all the other players we have always had at DT.

patchick said:

Maybe others can enlighten me, but I don't get where the "return to the old 3-4" talk is coming from. IMO none of the big DTs seem like natural 5-techs -- they're huge, but on the model of 4-3 DTs.

Combine the massive DLs, the blocking rule change, the loss of Chandler Jones, who was the purest 4-3 DE on the roster, and the shrinking usage of 7-man fronts...I keep picturing a base with essentially a 2-man line that can still be stout against the run.

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Depends on what you mean by "essentially". If you consider nink sheard and long more lb than dl then yeah that's our base.
2 DTS
2 43 DE/34 OLB
2 versatile LBS who can do anything any lb does
5 Dbs which probably is adjusted between 3 corners 3 safeties or 2 I'd each and a hybrid S/Lb depending on opponent and game situation

patchick said:

Maybe others can enlighten me, but I don't get where the "return to the old 3-4" talk is coming from. IMO none of the big DTs seem like natural 5-techs -- they're huge, but on the model of 4-3 DTs.

Combine the massive DLs, the blocking rule change, the loss of Chandler Jones, who was the purest 4-3 DE on the roster, and the shrinking usage of 7-man fronts...I keep picturing a base with essentially a 2-man line that can still be stout against the run.

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Zolak thinks it's coming, and the personnel would seem to fit it pretty well. There's not a Seymour, but there's a Warren (Brown) and a Wilfork (Knighton, with Valentine as the theoretical future), and there's a Bruschi/Johnson (Collins/Hightower) combo among the linebackers. The rest would need to be massaged a bit, but there are a lot of options to throw at the remaining 3 spots.

I don't know that it will happen, but it makes some sense.

Deus Irae said:

Zolak thinks it's coming, and the personnel would seem to fit it pretty well. There's not a Seymour, but there's a Warren (Brown) and a Wilfork (Knighton, with Valentine as the theoretical future), and there's a Bruschi/Johnson (Collins/Hightower) combo among the linebackers. The rest would need to be massaged a bit, but there are a lot of options to throw at the remaining 3 spots.

I don't know that it will happen, but it makes some sense.

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Yeah, Brown as Ty Warren is certainly fair. Possibly I'm just seeing what I want to see, because a 2-gap 3-4 doesn't seem particularly tempting to me in the 2016 NFL.

We are signing all these big boys as a P.R move for Brady's new alkaline diet cook book. By September, Pot Roast will look like Chandler Jones. #AvacadoIceCream #GOAT.

No but seriously we are hybrid defense, who is in a 4-2 whole lot.