Idle thoughts - AFCCG - first thoughts

Tunescribe said:

No kidding. I'm surprised by some of the comments I've been seeing in this forum by folks saying the Pats are going to "annihilate" Denver.

I think we should be considered underdogs going on the road to play the No. 1 seed. This will be a hard game to win, make no mistake. Even a compromised Forehead HGH Omaha has enough coupled with a good running game, solid defense and home crowd to beat the Pats. Add in the Pats' health problems, NFL's love of Manning and Goodell's assumed desire to avoid handing the Lombardi to Brady, and I see an uphill climb. Are the Pats capable? Yes, IF, as Ken has noted, Collins, Jones, Hightower (plus hopefully Mayo) are good to go AND the OL keeps its act together. I am hopeful, but concerned.

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im also worried. the refs are going to do everything they can to get forehead to the SB.

The Brandon Five said:

Well, since the Pats have an extra day on their schedule by virtue of playing on Sunday, what if they flew out to Denver a day early? Sunday is Monday, Monday is Tuesday etc. That means they will have finished by Thursday. It takes three days to fully acclimate to the altitude. Two days would get them partway there.

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With a late week snowstorm possibly looming, it wouldn't be a bad idea to beat the storm and leave early...

patfanken said:

Just curious, Why would you give me a red X on a point where we pretty much agree. Very strange reaction

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I gave y0u a red X on the comment that its not BBs defense. We don't agree on that.

Chris Harris is severely compromised with that injury......and now they have put Omar Bolden (think 3rd safety - Duron Harmon-like, who also is a good KR/PR) on IR this morning.

Brady can now spread 'em out and wing it easier.

Hell,an injured Roethlisberger, missing his #1 Wr, shredded them yesterday.

In the face of Denver's awesome pass rush, Brady can now do the 2 second thing far easier than when he faced the excellent KC secondary - - the antidote just became easier.

AndyJohnson said:

I gave y0u a red X on the comment that its not BBs defense. We don't agree on that.

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Is it BB's defense in that he designs the game plan it week to week, makes the calls and all the other aspects of the DC job. Or is it BB's defense in that it is made up of his over riding principles and philosophy are his and Patricia creates each weeks' game plan and implements it as DC under BB's supervision as HC.

Is it also BB's offense?

My point is that it is past time that Patricia begin to get more of the credit for what the defense has accomplished. It is my understanding that HE is the one that designs the weekly game plan. HE is the one who make all the calls during the game.

OF COURSE BB oversees, lends support,advice and makes key individual game decisions like going for it or not. But the fact is that Matt isn't a DC on training wheels any more. He's done enough to put his brand on the defense. Just because BB is his mentor and boss shouldn't preclude this from happening

It will be interesting to see if the Broncos take the risk of playing press man on Edelman and Gronk, especially with Harris' shoulder.

patfanken said:

Is it BB's defense in that he designs the game plan it week to week, makes the calls and all the other aspects of the DC job. Or is it BB's defense in that it is made up of his over riding principles and philosophy are his and Patricia creates each weeks' game plan and implements it as DC under BB's supervision as HC.

Is it also BB's offense?

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It's BBs team. Coordinators have authority to do things within BBs system, with his approval.
Your comments said it was Patricia's defense, and that's just not true, IMO.
BB is not a HC who hires people and hands them the reins. He is heavily involved in teaching (both the coaches and players) in game planning, in supervising play calling, etc.
Of course he delegates responsibilities, but he doesn't hand them away.

AndyJohnson said:

It's BBs team. Coordinators have authority to do things within BBs system, with his approval.
Your comments said it was Patricia's defense, and that's just not true, IMO.
BB is not a HC who hires people and hands them the reins. He is heavily involved in teaching (both the coaches and players) in game planning, in supervising play calling, etc.
Of course he delegates responsibilities, but he doesn't hand them away.

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Well I guess we will have to disagree. on the point I just don't need a big red X to do it.

I actually don't disagree with some of what you wrote. BB is involved with the teaching and development of his coaches. That's one of hi.s best qualities. And of course he's intimately "involved" with the game planning. What HC isn't. But the fact is BB has been branded to the Pats defense beyond the usual HC/DC role. Up to this year, Patricia hasn't gotten the kind of recognition that most DC's get for their role on the team. My position is that this should change. The Defense should be Matt's, just like the offense is Josh's. We are all well aware that the entirety of the operation is Bill's

BWT - you might want to check my post again, after I posted it I added some more on second thought

If Denver wins this game its going to be because they control the clock with their running game and get a few key stops/uncharacteristic turn overs. I don't see any way in which Peyton Mannings corpse wins this game with his arm, although he'll surely get all the credit if they pull it off

The key, obviously, is how to slow down that Denver pass rush and defeat press coverage. I do have some concerns about their defense because it has the capability of making us very one dimensional -- not saying that it will force us to be that, and, in fact, we did just fine being one dimensional against a very good KC defense on Saturday, but I do worry that Miller and Ware are different animals than what we faced on Saturday. But I sure feel good about our chances if all our offensive players can play like they played on Saturday, minus a few of the drops.

I'm not terribly concerned about their offense, but their defense remains very legitimate and I can't pretend that they don't match-up well against us. The basic ingredients that have traditionally given Brady trouble are present:

1. Strong pass rush from front 4 (although more on the outside than up the middle, which is good)
2. Strong corners that can (and d0) play tight, press man coverage
3. Front 7 that makes running extraordinarily difficult
4. Speedy linebackers and secondary that can tackle well and shut down YAC (not perfect, but their speed makes up for mistakes)

That said, without being a homer, I still think that New England is the better overall team and should win this, barring turnovers or horrible breaks.

Deus Irae said:

It will be interesting to see if the Broncos take the risk of playing press man on Edelman and Gronk, especially with Harris' shoulder.

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THIS is a great discussion point. I think one of the better observations made by the talking heads in the Steeler game was that how Phillips was forced to go more to zone coverages because of the Steeler WR's.

Unless the Broncos decide to put Talib on LaFell ( a net win for us even if he shuts him out) He is gong to have to cover one of our water bugs, a match up that has caused him a lot of problems in the past. OR, as you point out, the Broncos might have to go to a zone coverage, and we all know how historically Brady eats those up.

Now there is a type of zone coverage that could be effective and is the one I think we will see. Its the one Rex Ryan used in 2010 and is the base coverage for the Seahawks now. Most people think the Seahawks use a lot of man coverage, but the don't. Instead they use a zone coverage they ends up looking like man because they lock on to their men very quickly, and don't allow a lot of space. But by being in a zone they can cover short routes across the middle better without getting caught up in the wash. They also can cover those quick bubble screens better without losing defenders who are run off by receivers.

Thanks for pointing this out. I will be looking closely on Sunday just how Wade tries to slow down this offense and make Brady think or become less decisive. That HAS to be his goal this week. How to give his rushers more time to get to Brady

patfanken said:

Well I guess we will have to disagree. on the point I just don't need a big red X to do it.

I actually don't disagree with some of what you wrote. BB is involved with the teaching and development of his coaches. That's one of hi.s best qualities. And of course he's intimately "involved" with the game planning. What HC isn't. But the fact is BB has been branded to the Pats defense beyond the usual HC/DC role. Up to this year, Patricia hasn't gotten the kind of recognition that most DC's get for their role on the team. My position is that this should change. The Defense should be Matt's, just like the offense is Josh's. We are all well aware that the entirety of the operation is Bill's

BWT - you might want to check my post again, after I posted it I added some more on second thought

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I marked disagree, because I disagreed and didn't really want to get into something like this where you spend many posts saying you meant something different than what you said.

You said:

It's not BB anymore. The Brand on the defense now is stamped : made by Matty P.

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I disagree. It appears from your new comments you also disagree with yourself.

I also do not agree that Patricia has not gotten sufficient credit.
He is credited for being the coordinator of a successful unit under the most hands on, detail oriented coach with the most commitment to his system in the NFL, on the side of the ball he coached when he was an assistant.
What do you want him to be credited for?
If you are going back to Patricia runs the defense and it is not BBs anymore, then lets just disagree and move on. There will be no value to the board in having that discussion. (Hence the 'disagree' without comment)

Deus Irae said:

It will be interesting to see if the Broncos take the risk of playing press man on Edelman and Gronk, especially with Harris' shoulder.

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Real interesting. Saw alot of zone from Denver yesterday and there were some plays to be had there. Either way, I don't see anyone on that roster that can play man with Edelman.

Regarding the Pats run defense and getting tired in the 4th quarter in Denver, it also coincided with Hightower leaving the game. It's just a different defense when he's in there. Collins gets a lot of the accolades because he makes the freak plays and a lot of it is deserved but Hightower is the straw that stirs the drink.

TheButlerDidIt said:

The key, obviously, is how to slow down that Denver pass rush and defeat press coverage. I do have some concerns about their defense because it has the capability of making us very one dimensional -- not saying that it will force us to be that, and, in fact, we did just fine being one dimensional against a very good KC defense on Saturday, but I do worry that Miller and Ware are different animals than what we faced on Saturday. But I sure feel good about our chances if all our offensive players can play like they played on Saturday, minus a few of the drops.

I'm not terribly concerned about their offense, but their defense remains very legitimate and I can't pretend that they don't match-up well against us. The basic ingredients that have traditionally given Brady trouble are present:

1. Strong pass rush from front 4 (although more on the outside than up the middle, which is good)
2. Strong corners that can (and d0) play tight, press man coverage
3. Front 7 that makes running extraordinarily difficult
4. Speedy linebackers and secondary that can tackle well and shut down YAC (not perfect, but their speed makes up for mistakes)

That said, without being a homer, I still think that New England is the better overall team and should win this, barring turnovers or horrible breaks.

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we basically won the superbowl last year being one dimensional...and I expect our gameplan to be pass heavy on sunday as well. I only see us using the run game if we build a lead and want to milk the clock. otherwise

im not so sure their defense matches up perfectly with our offense. Their defense has never shut down out offense in all the times we have played them except for the 2013 afccg when brady had no receivers.

Edelman has historically shredded them. and is the kind of receiver talib/harris struggle with.

Idle thought- Is this Denver Bronco's team significantly better than the one that was destroyed by the Colts in last year's divisional match up?

If so, how exactly?

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Idle thought- Is this Denver Bronco's team significantly better than the one that was destroyed by the Colts in last year's divisional match up?

If so, how exactly?

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nope, and if not for toussant holding onto the ball they would have been destroyed by a shell of a steeler team. If AB plays they get blown out yesterday

AndyJohnson said:

I marked disagree, because I disagreed and didn't really want to get into something like this where you spend many posts saying you meant something different than what you said.

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You are right it wasn't worth the time.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Idle thought- Is this Denver Bronco's team significantly better than the one that was destroyed by the Colts in last year's divisional match up?

If so, how exactly?

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theyre worse because peyton is worse and their o-line isn't as strong.
they also had julius thomas as the TE with our friend wes.

patfanken said:

Now there is a type of zone coverage that could be effective and is the one I think we will see. Its the one Rex Ryan used in 2010 and is the base coverage for the Seahawks now. Most people think the Seahawks use a lot of man coverage, but the don't. Instead they use a zone coverage they ends up looking like man because they lock on to their men very quickly, and don't allow a lot of space. But by being in a zone they can cover short routes across the middle better without getting caught up in the wash. They also can cover those quick bubble screens better without losing defenders who are run off by receivers.

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I would not be terribly concerned about them playing suddenly a different kind of zone coverage even if it was successful for Seattle. It's one thing if a team plays this kind of defense very often like Seattle does but a complete different thing if a coordinator tries to install something like that within a week into a secondary that doesn't have that much experience with it. This just calls for 1-2 blown coverages during the game.