Congratulations Robert Kraft for helping lead this franchise to historic success

convertedpatsfan said:

I admit I haven't followed hockey since the 3rd or 4th lockout (I lost count), but wasn't Jacobs universally hated in Boston for being greedy and cheap? I remember him making lists of terrible owners back when I watched hockey. I'm not a Boston guy, so I could totally be wrong, but surprised to see him held up as a sign of good ownership.

And I still think good owners are a pretty rare sight. Recent Boston fans have been incredibly spoiled by Kraft, Jacobs (I guess), Henry, and the Celtics ownership group. How was all of that before the 2000s? I don't think Boston fans would be claiming good owners were pretty common 20 years ago...

As for the NFL, here's a breakdown of categories of owners as I see it based on the past few decades:

The meddlers:
Jerruh, Snyder, Irsay, Ross, Woody, Wilf, and I would include Blank here as well.

Long-time owners who have a history of sucking, but seem to have learned from it and are finally putting together good organizations:
Bidwell, Richardson, Brown, and Benson before his old age kicked in.

New owners who aren't terribly promising:
Martha Ford (whose husband, William, cared greatly for the Lions but was an awful owner), McCaskey, Haslem (investigated by the FBI), Khan, Wilf, the Glazers, the Pegulas, the Davises, the Adams family.

Owners holding their teams hostage right now with the LA gun:
Spanos, Kroenke

I can't tell if they're good or bad:
Bowlen, Hunt, Bisciotti, McNair, Lurie, York

Owners I absolutely think do a good job:
Kraft, Mara/Tisch, the Rooneys, Green Bay Packers Inc, Allen.

Maybe pick 3 of the 6 from the good/bad category, and you still don't hit 1/3 of the teams in the league with quality ownership.

So no, it's not common.

And I have no doubt BB deserves the lion's share of credit for what has happened, especially the Super Bowls. But let's not overlook that Kraft's Patriots pre-BB were 54-42 (.563) with 2 AFC East titles, 4 play-off trips and 1 Super Bowl trip in 6 seasons. Not as dominant as with BB, but hardly an abject failure either.

Let's also not forget that if Kraft didn't step up, there's no New England franchise to talk about. Orthwein had no interest in keeping the team here, yet Kraft wouldn't let him buy out the lease, and it limited interest from other buyers with similar ideas because they knew they would have to deal with Kraft.

And having said all that, I still understand why people are angry. I still get why people resent him. But if he does something right, he does something right. His big mistake doesn't wipe out everything good. And his big mistake doesn't make future good things bad. You can't re-write history.

And quite frankly, I wonder how every hater would feel if their biggest mistake was brought up every single day of their lives and used to judge every single one of their actions. No matter what good they did, there was that one bad day.

And every day, people cave in to pressure. Sometimes it's societal pressures, sometimes it's job pressures, sometimes it's just stupid pressures. Sometimes you don't stand up to the CEO because you're scared you might lose your job. But you don't have millions of people calling you out for your cowardice and lack of balls. Millions of people don't scream at your pathetic lack of character for not calling out your boss out in a meeting when they're clearly lying. Then you come home and bang angry words on your keyboard at others.

It's common to think of people as good or bad, honest or liars, winners or losers. The truth is we are all things. The most honest man can lie, and the worst man can do good. A perennial loser can win (see Manning, Peyton), and a man who does a lot of good can make a massive misjudgment in someone else like Kraft. The truth is, we all have multiple sides to us, and we all can do good and bad and tell the truth and lie and stand up and cower and fight and surrender. There's no constant, just situations, just life. And we all have our good days and bad days.

But I can only hope that if there is an afterlife, it's not staffed by a panel of Patriots fans because nobody will ever get in.

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RayClay said:

Yeah, here's a NY Times article that says that and also that a 20 million fee from the league would go into effect. Also implies that they could break the lease but it would cost a lot in legal fees. More force to the Kraft put them over a barrel argument, thanks for the info.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/22/sports/sold-time-to-call-them-the-new-england-permanents.html

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convertedpatsfan said:

I admit I haven't followed hockey since the 3rd or 4th lockout (I lost count), but wasn't Jacobs universally hated in Boston for being greedy and cheap? I remember him making lists of terrible owners back when I watched hockey. I'm not a Boston guy, so I could totally be wrong, but surprised to see him held up as a sign of good ownership.

And I still think good owners are a pretty rare sight. Recent Boston fans have been incredibly spoiled by Kraft, Jacobs (I guess), Henry, and the Celtics ownership group. How was all of that before the 2000s? I don't think Boston fans would be claiming good owners were pretty common 20 years ago...

As for the NFL, here's a breakdown of categories of owners as I see it based on the past few decades:

The meddlers:
Jerruh, Snyder, Irsay, Ross, Woody, Wilf, and I would include Blank here as well.

Long-time owners who have a history of sucking, but seem to have learned from it and are finally putting together good organizations:
Bidwell, Richardson, Brown, and Benson before his old age kicked in.

New owners who aren't terribly promising:
Martha Ford (whose husband, William, cared greatly for the Lions but was an awful owner), McCaskey, Haslem (investigated by the FBI), Khan, Wilf, the Glazers, the Pegulas, the Davises, the Adams family.

Owners holding their teams hostage right now with the LA gun:
Spanos, Kroenke

I can't tell if they're good or bad:
Bowlen, Hunt, Bisciotti, McNair, Lurie, York

Owners I absolutely think do a good job:
Kraft, Mara/Tisch, the Rooneys, Green Bay Packers Inc, Allen.

Maybe pick 3 of the 6 from the good/bad category, and you still don't hit 1/3 of the teams in the league with quality ownership.

So no, it's not common.

And I have no doubt BB deserves the lion's share of credit for what has happened, especially the Super Bowls. But let's not overlook that Kraft's Patriots pre-BB were 54-42 (.563) with 2 AFC East titles, 4 play-off trips and 1 Super Bowl trip in 6 seasons. Not as dominant as with BB, but hardly an abject failure either.

Let's also not forget that if Kraft didn't step up, there's no New England franchise to talk about. Orthwein had no interest in keeping the team here, yet Kraft wouldn't let him buy out the lease, and it limited interest from other buyers with similar ideas because they knew they would have to deal with Kraft.

And having said all that, I still understand why people are angry. I still get why people resent him. But if he does something right, he does something right. His big mistake doesn't wipe out everything good. And his big mistake doesn't make future good things bad. You can't re-write history.

And quite frankly, I wonder how every hater would feel if their biggest mistake was brought up every single day of their lives and used to judge every single one of their actions. No matter what good they did, there was that one bad day.

And every day, people cave in to pressure. Sometimes it's societal pressures, sometimes it's job pressures, sometimes it's just stupid pressures. Sometimes you don't stand up to the CEO because you're scared you might lose your job. But you don't have millions of people calling you out for your cowardice and lack of balls. Millions of people don't scream at your pathetic lack of character for not calling out your boss out in a meeting when they're clearly lying. Then you come home and bang angry words on your keyboard at others.

It's common to think of people as good or bad, honest or liars, winners or losers. The truth is we are all things. The most honest man can lie, and the worst man can do good. A perennial loser can win (see Manning, Peyton), and a man who does a lot of good can make a massive misjudgment in someone else like Kraft. The truth is, we all have multiple sides to us, and we all can do good and bad and tell the truth and lie and stand up and cower and fight and surrender. There's no constant, just situations, just life. And we all have our good days and bad days.

But I can only hope that if there is an afterlife, it's not staffed by a panel of Patriots fans because nobody will ever get in.

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Armchair Quarterback said:

Judging things as all good or all bad is a sign of mental illness. Kraft should be commended for the good things he has done like keep the team in NE and hiring BB but that doesn't give him a free pass from criticism for the rest of eternity. He's handled the two "Gates" about as bad as humanly possible, allowing the two people who have allowed him to bask in (and take credit for) the glory of multiple championships to be labeled as cheaters by that imbecile Goodell and his pack of goons as well as having multiple 1st round picks confiscated with the flimsiest of evidence, all while being Goodell's biggest supporter. He clearly puts the league ahead of the team, and that deserves criticism.

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shmessy said:

CPF, I agree with what neali wrote about your post.

Every member here who whines about Bob Kraft should read this and learn.

Literally, the NFL fan equivalent of "First World Problems".

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1960Pats said:

Criticizing Kraft for his handling of Crygate and Framegate is whining? I don't think so. If anyone is whining it's the Kraft lapdogs whenever the slightest criticism comes his way.

If Bob Kraft stood by his team instead of Goodell, we wouldn't have to listen to the Brady cheated crap every time we turn on a radio or tv now.

But hey, the value of the team went up 23% this year so everything's cool.

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flasox27 said:

It has been reported that there has been a reconciliation between Bob Kraft and his once and future best friend, POS Goodell. I can hardly wait for the apologists to explain this is part of a secret plan to remove Goodell. I to the contrary believe it is the reaction of a proud man who refuses to believe was duped by people who he thought were his friends and partners for years. Unfortunately, the Pats and their fans can not afford an owner who has such a disastrous blind spot and need him to turn over the team to his son who is hopefully not part of the toxic relationship with the POS. Until then we can only wait for the next sham violation and turn over of more draft picks. Bob Kraft was a great owner for many years. It would be a shame if his actions from 2007 on should diminish all the excellence he brought before.

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1960Pats said:

Criticizing Kraft for his handling of Crygate and Framegate is whining? I don't think so. If anyone is whining it's the Kraft lapdogs whenever the slightest criticism comes his way.

If Bob Kraft stood by his team instead of Goodell, we wouldn't have to listen to the Brady cheated crap every time we turn on a radio or tv now.

But hey, the value of the team went up 23% this year so everything's cool.

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shmessy said:

.....and yes, 1960. Us having to 'bravely endure' the taunts in the playground from other teams' jealous fans while the Patriots build upon their 15 year dynasty IS a First World NFL problem.

Cleveland, Oakland, Washington, Miami, Atlanta..........etc. don't have to suffer the 'grave consequences' you and I must shoulder through. You know damn well, would all gladly give their left left nuts forever in a fraction of a second in order to hear the crap we hear.

So, please name one (just ONE) other owner in the NFL you would prefer to Bob Kraft.

This should be good.

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shmessy said:

.....and yes, 1960. Us having to 'bravely endure' the taunts in the playground from other teams' jealous fans while the Patriots build upon their 15 year dynasty IS a First World NFL problem.

Cleveland, Oakland, Washington, Miami, Atlanta..........etc. don't have to suffer the 'grave consequences' you and I must shoulder through. You know damn well, would all gladly give their left left nuts forever in a fraction of a second in order to hear the crap we hear.

Please name one (just ONE) other majority owner in the NFL you would prefer to Bob Kraft.

This should be good.

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flasox27 said:

How about Rooney or Mara who really control the league and Goodell is intimidated by. They leave their coaches alone and are never subjected to the sham violations and punishments Kraft swallowed. I happen to think if they had BB as the coach and Brady as their QB their record would be similar to the Pats and there wouldn't be a peep about camera placement or ball pressure.

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"I happen to think if they had BB as the coach....."

Armchair Quarterback said:

Judging things as all good or all bad is a sign of mental illness. Kraft should be commended for the good things he has done like keep the team in NE and hiring BB but that doesn't give him a free pass from criticism for the rest of eternity. He's handled the two "Gates" about as bad as humanly possible, allowing the two people who have allowed him to bask in (and take credit for) the glory of multiple championships to be labeled as cheaters by that imbecile Goodell and his pack of goons as well as having multiple 1st round picks confiscated under suspect circumstances, all while being Goodell's biggest supporter. He clearly puts the league ahead of the team, and that deserves criticism.

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Armchair Quarterback said:

How about one that doesn't allow his team to be unjustly punished and labeled as cheaters every time Kraft's little buddy wants to make a name for himself, overcompensate for his other failures and appear to be a tough guy? How about an owner that doesn't play along with that foolishness and/or allow that to happen? Kraft could have tried to pushed Goodell out after spygate and certainly after Ray Rice but he didn't, instead he doubled down on his support and led the committee that decided to pay that idiot $30-50 million dollars a year. He did the very opposite of what he should have done, to the detriment of the franchise, just because Belichick and Brady can overcome those obstacles, doesn't mean Kraft, through his support of Goodell, hasn't damaged the team.

Your post seems to imply that Kraft is responsible for the success the Patriots have had over the last two decades. The success lays squarely on the shoulders of BB, Brady and other players that have bought into the system. That success could have been the same under any number of any other owners.

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Armchair Quarterback said:

From the article:

"He also let it be known that he would seek to enforce provisions of the lease that he maintains require the Patriots not only to make lease payments but also to play in the stadium. "I would have sought an injunction to keep the team in Foxboro," he said."

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Armchair Quarterback said:

How about one that doesn't allow his team to be unjustly punished and labeled as cheaters every time Kraft's little buddy wants to make a name for himself, overcompensate for his other failures and appear to be a tough guy? How about an owner that doesn't play along with that foolishness and/or allow that to happen? Kraft could have tried to pushed Goodell out after spygate and certainly after Ray Rice but he didn't, instead he doubled down on his support and led the committee that decided to pay that idiot $30-50 million dollars a year. He did the very opposite of what he should have done, to the detriment of the franchise, just because Belichick and Brady can overcome those obstacles, doesn't mean Kraft, through his support of Goodell, hasn't damaged the team.

Your post seems to imply that Kraft is responsible for the success the Patriots have had over the last two decades. The success lays squarely on the shoulders of BB, Brady and other players that have bought into the system. That success could have been the same under any number of any other owners.

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RayClay said:

You know, this is a lotta BS. When you are driving, do you allow the cop to write you a ticket? If not, what do you do?

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shmessy said:

You should read your own first 2 sentences of Post #84 and CPF's Post #10.

No one is saying he should not be criticized for how he handled Crygate and Framegate.

But to completely ignore his saving the franchise for this region, the new stadium 9over what preceeded it, The Hall - - (was there any place for history of the Pats except in our own heads before it? - - this guy brought back great players from the 60's and on to beremembered and thanked by the fans....) and he did it without PSL's taxpayer stadium financing, etc.........

What the spoiled Patriots fans (many of whom are too young or are too bandwagon to remember the owners before Kraft) completely discount is that what Kraft has done is UNPRECEDENTED in American Sports over a post WW II 20+ year period.

Should he be castigated for Crygate and Framegate -YES! And I have been one of the most critical right here on this website for those two instances.

However, the hardliners should be careful what they wish for.

-----

"Your post seems to imply that Kraft is responsible for the success the Patriots have had over the last two decades."

Wow. I guess the word "imply" gives one license to make up all kinds of imaginary arguments to build out of straw.

"The success lays squarely on the shoulders of BB, Brady and other players that have bought into the system."

-Another fan who thinks BB just landed in Kraft's lap while "good owners" like Mara were holding tight to Jim Fassel.

.

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