OT: Coughlin's coaching decision

aluminum seats said:

Yes they are.

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Your understanding of pretty much everything relating to football seems to be miles off lately. That you're missing the obvious here is par for that course.

There's a base scenario here. You can score within two minutes, but there's a time/score tradeoff against a dangerous offensive team.

The Giants/Cowboys and Giants/Patriots games are two riffs off of that base scenario.

we lost two super bowls to this clown?

Deus Irae said:

Your understanding of pretty much everything relating to football seems to be miles off lately. That you're missing the obvious here is par for that course.

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As is you resorting to personal attacks.

How on earth can they be competent for 2 games, and so damn ******ed for the others? Just our luck...

Actually the Giants also made another giant (hee hee get it) gaffe just before the two minute warning. They had just converted a first down and Dallas used their first TO. Its 2:17 left in the game and the Giants smartly run the ball up the middle for no gain. However, they were flagged for an illegal formation, the Cowboys declined the penalty, but it stopped the clock at 2:17. Without the penalty, the clock would have either kept running to the 2:00 warning or the Cowboys would have had to call their second TO. Instead the Giants ran the ball again (lost 4 yards) Dallas did not call another TO and they let the clock run to the two minute warning.

Without that penalty, the Giants would have been at the two minute warning facing 2 and ten with Dallas still having 2 TO, or 3 and 14 with Dallas having only one TO left.

They complete the pass to Beckham for the first down, now its would have been first and ten at the 4 yard line 1:54 left. They could have ran it once, Dallas would have called their last TO, then run it again which would have brought the clock down to @1:10, ran it again on third down which would have brought the clock to @0:25 then kicked the FG and Dallas would have had less than twenty seconds to go the length of the field with no TO.

These are the situations that BB drums into the players heads, Do make a mistake a critical times. That illegal formation penalty was even dumber than throwing on third down.

aluminum seats said:

As is you resorting to personal attacks.

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I'm discussing your recent issue with understanding football. It's not intended as a personal attack, but a specific and football-related issue in the context of combing this discussion and other recent discussions we've had. But, be that as it may...

Here's the basic breakdown of the Giants ending:

If Jennings runs it in on first down, and the XP is good, the ball goes to the Cowboys with about 1:50 remaining and the Cowboys having 2 timeouts left.

If you burn the first two downs, that leaves 3rd down and no timeouts left for the cowboys, and that's where the problem hits. A run, even a failed run, and you've got the FG giving you a 6 point lead with under a minute left and 0 TDs. You've also got the option of trying to pound it in on 4th down, the failure of which would mean that Dallas would be taking over from about their own 1 yard line and needing a FG to tie.

Both scenarios can be logically supported, regardless of which you and I may consider the preferable choice.

Where the Giants went off the rails is burning the downs and then not letting the clock run down on 3rd. They lost with 7 seconds left when they could have burned 40 seconds more off the clock, which means that, at the least, the Cowboys would have needed to score 33 seconds faster than they did.

I mean, you realize that the Patriots wanted to let the Giants score in 2011, even though the Patriots were in the lead, right?

With New York in position to run down the clock and kick the winning field goal later in the drive, New England linebacker Jerod Mayo tells his fellow defenders in the huddle, "We've got to let 'em score." Tackle Vince Wilfork then assures a teammate as the players are lining up, "Yeah, yeah, let 'em score."

But on the sideline, Brady laments, "They're not going to score."

He was wrong. Ahmad Bradshaw fell into the end zone after trying to stop himself, putting the Giants up 21-17 with 57 seconds left.

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...hick-wanted-giants-to-throw-toward-manningham

Foxypats said:

How on earth did they beat us twice ????? Yeah, I know the answer but it still baffles me..

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It's like at the end of SB 46 when they let Bradshaw score and give us a chance!

The O/U was 51.5

Dallas -5.5

How the hell did we lose 2 Super Bowls to these guys?

Deus Irae said:

I'm discussing your recent issue with understanding football. It's not intended as a personal attack, but a specific and football-related issue in the context of combing this discussion and other recent discussions we've had. But, be that as it may...

Here's the basic breakdown of the Giants ending:

If Jennings runs it in on first down, and the XP is good, the ball goes to the Cowboys with about 1:50 remaining and the Cowboys having 2 timeouts left.

If you burn the first two downs, that leaves 3rd down and no timeouts left for the cowboys, and that's where the problem hits. A run, even a failed run, and you've got the FG giving you a 6 point lead with under a minute left and 0 TDs. You've also got the option of trying to pound it in on 4th down, the failure of which would mean that Dallas would be taking over from about their own 1 yard line and needing a FG to tie.

Both scenarios can be logically supported, regardless of which you and I may consider the preferable choice.

Where the Giants went off the rails is burning the downs and then not letting the clock run down on 3rd. They lost with 7 seconds left when they could have burned 40 seconds more off the clock, which means that, at the least, the Cowboys would have needed to score 33 seconds faster than they did.

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Sigh. OK, moving on...

I disagree that both scenarios can be logically supported. If you have a chance to go up two scores, then you do that. Even with less ******ed clock management, if you choose NOT to do that, you're giving the ball to the other team with the chance to beat you. Up two scores, they still have to score....but they also need to recover an onside kick, and then score again. Miracle stuff. The overwhelmingly obvious choice there is to punch it in.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

How the hell did we lose 2 Super Bowls to these guys?

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The second one, I have no idea.

aluminum seats said:

Sigh. OK, moving on...

I disagree that both scenarios can be logically supported. If you have a chance to go up two scores, then you do that. Even with less ******ed clock management, if you choose NOT to do that, you're giving the ball to the other team with the chance to beat you. Up two scores, they still have to score....but they also need to recover an onside kick, and then score again. Miracle stuff. The overwhelmingly obvious choice there is to punch it in.

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Their difference becomes more obvious when you consider the opponent's perspective. With Dallas, no matter how unlikely their odds of winning were down 6 with a few ticks remaining, it was still higher than if they had conceded the TD to go down two scores. By comparison, the Patriots would have needed a miracle to win without conceding. One team needed to stop the TD, the other needed to allow it.

They are similar in that it was near the goal line and time was winding down, but most other factors diverge.

Oswlek said:

Their difference becomes more obvious when you consider the opponent's perspective. With Dallas, no matter how unlikely their odds of winning were down 6 with a few ticks remaining, it was still higher than if they had conceded the TD to go down two scores. By comparison, the Patriots would have needed a miracle to win without conceding. One team needed to stop the TD, one needed to allow it.

They are similar in that it was near the goal line and time was winding down, but most other factors diverge.

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Miracle? All New England would have needed was a stop and a missed/blocked field goal.

Y'all really aren't thinking logically.

makoute said:

The second one, I have no idea.

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I think it is time again to post THAT Welker gif.

But on a more serious note, it was the sum of all possible things that went wrong. That (ridiculous) safety, Gronk in a boot, Welker dropping, that amazing catch on the sideline, the almost hail mary. Beh.. you both put me back into bad mood.. gotta go watch Butler intercept Wilson..

New wrinkle:

Manning says the 'order' not to score came from him, not Coughlin.


So much for the thread....

Deus Irae said:

Miracle? All New England would have needed was a stop and a missed/blocked field goal.

Y'all really aren't thinking logically.

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Yes- its happy hour on the east coast. Dont end the workday rewinding that disaster.

nabwong said:

Game-fixing-gate.

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Can you imagine if BB made a call like that after this past offseason? lol... They would take himaway in handcuffs during a live prime time game

Deus Irae said:

New wrinkle:

Manning says the 'order' not to score came from him, not Coughlin.


So much for the thread....

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Don't all Mannings tell their running backs not to score so they can throw a TD pass from the one yard line and pad their stats?

I remember a game a long time ago….I think it was the Giants….where the running back broke free and ran to the one and basically knelt down and ran the clock out and in that situation it was the right thing to do. I remember the media hailing it as the smartest play ever nd an example of excellent coaching. Its likely Manning was remembering that too.

Bella*chick said:

I remember a game a long time ago….I think it was the Giants….where the running back broke free and ran to the one and basically knelt down and ran the clock out and in that situation it was the right thing to do. I remember the media hailing it as the smartest play ever nd an example of excellent coaching. Its likely Manning was remembering that too.

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I think that was Westbrook for Philly, and they were able to run the clock completely out after he dropped down at the 1. Smart play.