Your thoughts on Patriots cornerback strategy in the draft...

Brady6 said:

I think it is interesting that you have Butler in the lock group. Yet players such as Dennard and Ryan who have started for this team and played at extremely high levels are fighting for a spot.

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Dennard and Ryan have played at extremely high levels? They've been bad, to average, to good.

I think you might be a little carried away?

hwc said:

I think the odds are slightly in favor Dennard not making the team. Unless he was injured, there's no other way to interpret his non-playing status last season.

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I have said this over and over..the reason..and i believe him (Bedard) gave as to why Dennard didn't play...was the Pats wanted to move him into more of a slot role last year and he had a REAL hard time picking it up..aka not playing as a result

It is an interesting topic. The problem with a secondary that cannot cover man is that the safeties have to hang back and protect the CBs instead of playing the run or the short stuff and the LB have to cover also. It make the run defense more porous and it leads to less safety/ LB blitzes .

I expect that the Patriots pass defense to revert to the 2013 Patriots pass defense. You can win with that type of CB play, but it is harder.

Also I standby what I said; CBs are the hardest position to find, harder than that the glamor positions like QB or WR.

I wonder what really happened in the War Room. I wonder if we will ever know...there was no Michael Holley to record it, alas.

I have to assume that every time their turn came up, they had higher rated guys on their Board than CB and thus went that way, but here they find themselves with not much of an answer to replacing Revis and Browner. Odd.

Or the Patriots (esp.Kraft) decided to make character a more important factor in this draft, and they decided to stick to the super Boy Scouts like Richards. Kraft cannot have been real excited about testifying in the Hernandez trial. There were certainly some dodgy characters among the CBs this year...

robertweathers said:

How? They entered the season with Law,Poole, Asante, and Gay?

When you lose your two starters, that'll test the depth like nothing else.

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By "invested" you mean bringing in Gay as a rookie UDFA, Asante Samuel as a 2nd year player drafted in the 4th round, plus Ty Law and Ty Poole (the latter of which no one seemed too excited about)


The point is, Belichick won a SB with a defensive backfield that included a friggen 5'9" wide reciever, a 2nd year 4th round pick starting for the first time after the Ty's went down, and a rookie undrafted free agent with the name that still makes guys giggle.

JoeSixPat said:

By "invested" you mean bringing in Gay as a rookie UDFA, Asante Samuel as a 2nd year player drafted in the 4th round, plus Ty Law and Ty Poole (the latter of which no one seemed too excited about)


The point is, Belichick won a SB with a defensive backfield that included a friggen 5'9" wide reciever, a 2nd year 4th round pick starting for the first time after the Ty's went down, and a rookie undrafted free agent with the name that still makes guys giggle.

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Given the Patriots relative success in late rounds, I'm always interested in those picks perhaps more so than the highly rated, early round picks. There's something about pulling for an underdog (well, I see late round picks as speculative long shots) that I connect with.

I'm interested to see how Roberts transitions to an NFL environment. I don't mind the late round selection nor the Patriots approach because I've never believed you should simply draft a player for the sake of the position. You're locked in to a bad situation if you develop that habit.

so only 6 of the top 10 CBs were drafted in the 1st (3rd, 5th, 6th, and UDFA for the others). From 11-20, it gets fairly bleak with only 2 drafted in the 1st round with three coming from the UDFA pool. For the top 25 (using bleacher report rankings) CBs last season, the results are:

1st = 8
2nd = 2
3rd = 2
4th = 2
5th = 4
6th = 2
7th = 1
UDFA = 4

Seems like projecting CBs is as difficult as projecting QBs.

ausbacker said:

Given the Patriots relative success in late rounds, I'm always interested in those picks perhaps more so than the highly rated, early round picks. There's something about pulling for an underdog (well, I see late round picks as speculative long shots) that I connect with.

I'm interested to see how Roberts transitions to an NFL environment. I don't mind the late round selection nor the Patriots approach because I've never believed you should simply draft a player for the sake of the position. You're locked in to a bad situation if you develop that habit.

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Yes Roberts should be very very interesting. Too bad they did not take the shotgun approach adn draft 2-3 late-round CB and see who sticks. Did they sign any, ahem, FA CBs?

FredFromDartmouth said:

Yes Roberts should be very very interesting. Too bad they did not take the shotgun approach adn draft 2-3 late-round CB and see who sticks. Did they sign any, ahem, FA CBs?

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That depends on your view of Fletcher, McClain etc. If the Patriots get 2010 Fletcher then it's a good acquisition but if they get 2014 Fletcher, then it's a terrible one. That said, a lot depends on whether or not Butler develops, Dennard remembers he's a decent corner and what scheme the Patriots decide to use. For one reason or another, the skills of the Pats DBs seem more suited to zone (especially Logan Ryan).

Really, the further the CB situation develops the bigger re-signing McCourty to a long-term extension becomes. He's the key to the Secondary.

JoeSixPat said:

By "invested" you mean bringing in Gay as a rookie UDFA, Asante Samuel as a 2nd year player drafted in the 4th round, plus Ty Law and Ty Poole (the latter of which no one seemed too excited about)

The point is, Belichick won a SB with a defensive backfield that included a friggen 5'9" wide reciever, a 2nd year 4th round pick starting for the first time after the Ty's went down, and a rookie undrafted free agent with the name that still makes guys giggle.

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OK but in your post you said undervalued.

They had Law @ $10m a year. Poole was a key FA signing in 2003 and was paid very well. Asante was yes, a 4th rounder but had a good rookie year. You had, of course Rodney (who received a raise in the 04 off-season) and in 03 BB burned a 2nd rounder on Geno Wilson who was your CF'er.

My point was that he invested heavily in the secondary. Injuries happen. Thats all.

FredFromDartmouth said:

It is an interesting topic. The problem with a secondary that cannot cover man is that the safeties have to hang back and protect the CBs instead of playing the run or the short stuff and the LB have to cover also. It make the run defense more porous and it leads to less safety/ LB blitzes .

I expect that the Patriots pass defense to revert to the 2013 Patriots pass defense. You can win with that type of CB play, but it is harder.

Also I standby what I said; CBs are the hardest position to find, harder than that the glamor positions like QB or WR.

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I don't think there's any doubt they will have a different looking defense. Much more emphasis on the rush and probably safeties replacing a linebacker. They paid McCourty a lot of money because his role will be expanded and I believe, in the place of man to man coverage, there will be a lot of bumping at the line by safeties, and rushed, panic passes from QBs into zone defenses with a lot of ball hawking.

You can't look at the secondary play without considering the effect of two hopefully premier rushing DTs and a vet and two rookie pass rushers added.

I think they would have added a cornerback at the bottom of 2 if there was one worth it. i would not have passed up Malcom Brown though and even there the top CBs were already gone.

Seems to me they are very satisfied with all the JAGS at corner and are going to try and sack the qb every play. Plus let's be honest: BB sucks at drafting corners anyway so it's just as well.

I'm hoping our Revis rental will at least pay off in what he brought in work ethic and technique to the other players. The whole secondary seemed to raise its game with Revis, hopefully that remains.

I think BB or Caserio said they were looking at how they scouted corners after they missed checking out Butler. Maybe they improved the formula, and found the picks lacking

IcyPatriot said:

The 2007 Super Bowl champion NY Giants say hello.

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The 2008 Giants say Hi back.

RayClay said:

I have no clue about Richards but i bet one other team had eyes for him and that they are really going to emphasize the s/lb hybrid to replace a LB in their pass coverage.

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That is the post I have not yet written --- the Patriots seem to be drafting for three different flavors of 2 big Ugly, -2 Edge setters/pass rushers-2 off the line backers-5 DBs as their base packages.

Having a linebacker able to take some strong safety responsibilities or a strong safety taking some linebacker responsibilities would be two of the three packages, and the Pats drafted for those roles.

FredFromDartmouth said:

I expect that the Patriots pass defense to revert to the 2013 Patriots pass defense. You can win with that type of CB play, but it is harder.

Also I standby what I said; CBs are the hardest position to find, harder than that the glamor positions like QB or WR.

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I don't think our cb's are as good as 2013. Talib was pretty good that year. We don't have anybody as good as him. I'd compare it to 2011. We damn near won it with that secondary. But, it was dicey getting there in the AFCCG. I'm hoping an improved pass-rush with a zone scheme creates more turnovers. That's the formula. It will work well against a lot of quarterbacks. The dicey part will be when we get the good ones.

I'm not criticizing BB at all. It's damn hard to get corners. He traded for Talib. Got a good year and a half out of him. Really tried to keep him. Denver outbid us. Amazingly, gets Revis. Who helped get us a ring. The Patriots fan in us thought we'd be able to keep Revis. Those who know better, always knew he would go for the top dollar. Eliminating us. Some newbies act like making the AFCCG is no biggie. That's a pretty damn good season. Especially, if you have injuries. Gronk in 2012 and 2013. Talib getting hurt in both championship games. Winning ain't as easy as this team makes it look.

2015 could be a re-adjust year. See what ya got. Cut some vets not producing. Sign a vet like Sean Smith next year, draft one and make a run for it over a couple of years. Not just one.

patsfaninpa said:

I don't think our cb's are as good as 2013. Talib was pretty good that year. We don't have anybody as good as him. I'd compare it to 2011. .

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Oops, you I meant to say hat we could be looking at another 2011 season in the secondary, but maybe not that bleak. Butler and Dennard are good corners, but, shutter, if one of them goes down, then Ryan would have to fill in. Maybe Darryl Roberts will give us the depth we need.

It should be interesting to see how this plays out. Overall it seems like a good draft for the Patriots, albeit with the usual throw-away second round pick, but overall they improved.

robertweathers said:

Why do you think the run D will be worse?

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Wilfork won't be a plug.

robertweathers said:

Curren's comments were interesting....He bascially said that Philly misused him big time. Not sure if that was a confidence boost for Fletch or the truth.

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They did. He was in an island with no help vs #1's. Fletcher is not a Revis or Haden, but he's a good number 2. In think the Pats are gonna try Butler at #1. They are high on him, and quite frankly they should be. He changed the game when the Pats brought him in during the SB, and not that Jermaine Kearse is a special WR or anything, but he is a 6'4+ guy and Butler was all over him. He has great cover skills.

This secondary won't be better than last years, but hopefully with a more aggressive front 7 it won't have to be.

Everyone clamoring for them to draft a CB just like they were to draft an RB and WR, but truth is the FO might be more then content with what they have in house.