The disgusting attacks on Gronk

I heard what Eric Allen said on Fist Take. He said the shots that Gronk took down low was unnecessary on the defenders part and completely avoidable. He said its within the rules but hinted that it's a dirty play.

Stephen A added that it makes him uncomfortable watching defenders going after Gronk's knees.

This sounds morbid, but if what we saw against the Bills is what defenders are gonna do to tackle Gronk, it really is just a matter of time before he re injures his knee.

ausbacker said:

I'm happy to concede that players are bigger, faster, stronger etc. now but the same goes for defensive players in the NFL.

Players in the Australian Football League (Aussie Rules - our native game), Rugby League and Rugby Union are also bigger, stronger and faster than ever before. No excuses are made for any of those three when it comes to poor tackling technique. All three codes legislated the preferred type of technique into their by-laws and generally have rules toward tripping players worked in.

I love everything about the NFL but by and large, tackling technique needs to improve. From my observation, it's more hitting than tackling. Further to that, I hate any type of block that goes low on any lineman if that helps.

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I completely agree with your post and really respect/like you as a member here but comparing American football to Aussie Rules or Rugby is apples to oranges. I think that there needs to be a significant delineation between the major imparitives of the two sports. American football places emphasis on advancing the line of scrimmage and Aussie Rules/Rugby places the same emphasis on continuing the play. The directives for the ball carrier going into contact couldn't be more different. It's as simple as the 101 of the sports. American football? Cover the ball and finish the play. Aussie rules/Rugby? Assuming you can't pitch it, present the ball and extend the play. The goals going into contact really couldn't be further apart. Cutting a downfield runner will always be the best way of securing field position and until combat sambo influences the NFL it will always be that way.

condon84 said:

This sounds morbid, but if what we saw against the Bills is what defenders are gonna do to tackle Gronk, it really is just a matter of time before he re injures his knee.

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There's nothing that will stop these defenders from going at the knees its so sickening. I agree, how can he play another 10-13 games with people diving at his knee's every time he touches the ball.

New England Pride said:

There's nothing that will stop these defenders from going at the knees its so sickening. I agree, how can he play another 10-13 games with people diving at his knee's every time he touches the ball.

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It's one thing if he's got time to see someone coming in to make a tackle so he can brace himself, but most of the time he's getting hit just as he's catching the ball and he doesn't see the defender.

With defenders diving at his knees, it's just one bad timing when he plants his knee and it gets hit at the same time and it's done.

Brady should just fire those low passes to minimize potential injuries to Gronk especially over the middle (he did do that at least once this Sunday)

jays52 said:

I completely agree with your post and really respect/like you as a member here but comparing American football to Aussie Rules or Rugby is apples to oranges. I think that there needs to be a significant delineation between the major imparitives of the two sports. American football places emphasis on advancing the line of scrimmage and Aussie Rules/Rugby places the same emphasis on continuing the play. The directives for the ball carrier going into contact couldn't be more different. It's as simple as the 101 of the sports. American football? Cover the ball and finish the play. Aussie rules/Rugby? Assuming you can't pitch it, present the ball and extend the play. The goals going into contact really couldn't be further apart. Cutting a downfield runner will always be the best way of securing field position and until combat sambo influences the NFL it will always be that way.

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I feel the same way regarding you @jays52 but we're discussing the technique of tackling, a lost art form in the NFL.

Regarding Australian Rules, the onus is on the tackler to stop the player with the ball disposing it to a teammate or to impede their ability to move themselves. Whilst slightly different, the fundamental action of stopping your opponent is the same.

Regarding Rugby League and Rugby Union, these show similarities to the NFL. Union is a little different as the game is more lateral than forward at times but the onus is on the tackler to stop the momentum of the ballcarrier, much the same as it is in the NFL. There is a clear delineation between proper and improper tackling technique, especially when one considers the use of something called a Hit-Up in the NRL. Effectively, a hit up would be the ball carrier, let's say an RB charging right at the defensive player. The defensive player, much like the NFL, is expected to make the tackle and slow the progress of the offensive player. If players in the NFL want to go low then fine (personally I dot like it but I've always taken aim at the hips) but tackle, don't launch yourself at a player's knees with your helmet.

IMO, the way players in the NFL are coached and play to stop their opponent is not tackling and it should not be referred to as a tackle. A hit is a hit, not a tackle.

If I'm a 200lb DB I'm not going for Gronk's waist because I'd like to do something other than bounce off of him or get dragged for 20 yards.

fnordcircle said:

If I'm a 200lb DB I'm not going for Gronk's waist because I'd like to do something other than bounce off of him or get dragged for 20 yards.

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although, you would think wrapping up Gronks legs rather than launching your helmet at his knees would stop him just as well.

What's remarkable to me in this conversation is the assertion that the NFL, where the coaches are the most qualified in their profession and benefit from a century of football wisdom, doesn't require and teach basic technique to its players. That one can be in the top .05% of one's field and still not have, and not be taught, the fundamentals of that field.

It is the equivalent of saying that NIH is loaded with lab scientists who can't use a microscope.

betterthanthealternative said:

What's remarkable to me in this conversation is the assertion that the NFL, where the coaches are the most qualified in their profession and benefit from a century of football wisdom, doesn't require and teach basic technique to its players. That one can be in the top .05% of one's field and still not have, and not be taught, the fundamentals of that field.

It is the equivalent of saying that NIH is loaded with lab scientists who can't use a microscope.

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Have you considered that some coaches may want the opposing teams best players knocked out of the game? Have you also considered that many players do things their own way. Look at Cromartie and Samuel who hate tackling.

ausbacker said:

No, McCourty went low and it was a dirty play.

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You must be joking.

One day you Americans are going to realize that you had tackling in football right 50 years ago.

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As someone that has played the sport against better competition, it's impossible to form tackle on every single down. This isn't rugby where you're playing against big, lumbering white boys. The athletes that come out of the three places I mentioned and that are in the NFL are bigger, stronger, and lightning quick. They can weigh 225 and run a 40 yard dash in the low 4's. Unless your technique is perfect on a form tackle, it's not going to be successful. They call those attempts "arm tackles" some of the time. When you're a defender, particularly in the pro's, your job and livelihood depends on you bringing these guys down all the time and you do whatever you can to make sure that happens. Otherwise, you could cost yourself your job and your team the game.

Galeb said:

Have you considered that some coaches may want the opposing teams best players knocked out of the game?

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I don't see anyone trying to hurt Gronk, the guy is a beast, sounds like OP just wants him to walk in to the endzone but that isn't football, football is soft enough as is. You try to wrap him up softly and he is going to run all over you dude.

KontradictioN said:

You must be joking.
As someone that has played the sport against better competition, it's impossible to form tackle on every single down. This isn't rugby where you're playing against big, lumbering white boys. The athletes that come out of the three places I mentioned and that are in the NFL are bigger, stronger, and lightning quick.

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Rugby has ridiculously good athletes these days (see eg Ebner). However they are adapted to that type of game style. Where there is an emphasis less on pure burst and speed and more on endurance. An average NFL player would be completely gased after 5 minutes in a professional Rugby match b/c their body types are not adapted to that style.

Having said that (and having played both sports), I love Rugby but the comparison is really flawed. The lateral movement in that game really allows for more form tackling as there is much less jerkiness and forward momentum. Also having a helmet really changes everything. When the offensive player puts his helmet down, that changes the dynamic on how you can get leverage, especially for a bigger defensive player.

Also the emphasis on laying hits as opposed to tackling also comes from the premise that a hit tends to create more fumbles (eg put the helmet into the ball and push it out).

Different sport, different points of emphasis.

Hael said:

Rugby has ridiculously good athletes these days (see eg Ebner). However they are adapted to that type of game style. Where there is an emphasis less on pure burst and speed and more on endurance. An average NFL player would be completely gased after 5 minutes in a professional Rugby match b/c their body types are not adapted to that style.

Having said that (and having played both sports), I love Rugby but the comparison is really flawed. The lateral movement in that game really allows for more form tackling as there is much less jerkiness and forward momentum. Also having a helmet really changes everything. When the offensive player puts his helmet down, that changes the dynamic on how you can get leverage, especially for a bigger defensive player.

Also the emphasis on laying hits as opposed to tackling also comes from the premise that a hit tends to create more fumbles (eg put the helmet into the ball and push it out).

Different sport, different points of emphasis.

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I didn't mean to put down rugby, so I'm sorry if it came out that way. I played both sports as well, but my only experience was ruby was intramural rugby in college. As you said, there is far less cutting in rugby than there is in American football. You really cannot compare the two and you cannot sound off on hits in American football unless you played it. Those are just two of the reasons why a lot of people in this thread that think you can or should be making form tackles on every play in American football are people from other countries/continents. Sometimes, it's impossible to form tackle a guy weighing in at 230 that runs a sub 4.5 40 and can cut on a dime. You have to bring them down any way you can.

Study finds the only safe place to tackle a football player is....

http://www.theonion.com/articles/study-finds-only-safe-place-to-tackle-football-pla,34114/

Hael said:

Rugby has ridiculously good athletes these days (see eg Ebner). However they are adapted to that type of game style. Where there is an emphasis less on pure burst and speed and more on endurance. An average NFL player would be completely gased after 5 minutes in a professional Rugby match b/c their body types are not adapted to that style.

Having said that (and having played both sports), I love Rugby but the comparison is really flawed. The lateral movement in that game really allows for more form tackling as there is much less jerkiness and forward momentum. Also having a helmet really changes everything. When the offensive player puts his helmet down, that changes the dynamic on how you can get leverage, especially for a bigger defensive player.

Also the emphasis on laying hits as opposed to tackling also comes from the premise that a hit tends to create more fumbles (eg put the helmet into the ball and push it out).

Different sport, different points of emphasis.

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There's also the fact that, in rugby, it's not all that big a deal if a guy advances another couple of feet after you wrap him up. As long as he's wrapped up and isn't going to break free, you're good .The premium is places on making sure the guy goes down and can't get the ball to a teammate, rather than bringing him down quickly.

In football, due to the down/distance dynamic, the premium is placed not only on stopping players, but stopping them in their tracks with as little forward progress as possible. If you're giving up more yardage after contact than the next guy on the depth chart, then pretty soon you'll be the next guy on the depth chart, because those yards will frequently be the difference between a first down and getting the ball back. This creates a major incentive to go low rather than wrapping up, especially on a freak like Gronk who's guaranteed to drag you for a few yards if you try to tackle him the 'right' way.

KontradictioN said:

You must be joking.

As someone that has played the sport against better competition, it's impossible to form tackle on every single down. This isn't rugby where you're playing against big, lumbering white boys. The athletes that come out of the three places I mentioned and that are in the NFL are bigger, stronger, and lightning quick. They can weigh 225 and run a 40 yard dash in the low 4's. Unless your technique is perfect on a form tackle, it's not going to be successful. They call those attempts "arm tackles" some of the time. When you're a defender, particularly in the pro's, your job and livelihood depends on you bringing these guys down all the time and you do whatever you can to make sure that happens. Otherwise, you could cost yourself your job and your team the game.

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Thank you for confirming that tackling is not a tackle in the NFL. Call it a hit if you like but it's not a tackle.

Also, if you think Rugby is played against big, lumbering white boys may I suggest some research? The games (league and union) are dominated by Polynesians.

Gronk needs to learn how to protect himself from those hits.

The worst team in the NFL for trying to injure opposing players is obviously the Saints.

In the AFC it's the Steelers.

I seriously wish he'd wear one of these on each leg

TBR said:

I seriously wish he'd wear one of these on each leg

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Preferably with 6 inch nails potruding out of it fromthe top to bottom, so players would think twice about getting their eyesocket if they want to take someones knee out with a helmet.