Major overhaul on the o-line according to SMY (merged)

mgteich said:

The reason for the suckitude is not as difficult to discern as you make. The problem also is not as extensive as you suggest.

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DEVEY in not an NFL quality RG.

Agreed. Almost all of us agree he isn't ready, at best. Well everyone except for his position coach for a couple games.

The experiment at OG has failed. It is time to move on.

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And we know who's in charge of that experiment, right?

The offseason and camp are the places to experiment. At worst the regular season is for scrambling to fill in for injuries and fixing the coach's screw ups.

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mgteich said:

Many of us have questioned the decision to put Cannon At LG.

Some have us have been pleading for Connolly to be put at LG, not possible last week because Connolly was needed at center.

Personally, I am surprised that Fleming is now considered a better RG than Cannon, who has played at that position from time to time. I am fine with the decision if Fleming is ready. As folks said, he could be as ready as Stork.

One or two got it right. They (was it just one) wanted Connolly at LG AND Fleming at RG. I "wanted" Cannon at RG as what I thought was the best option. I am overjoyed that Fleming has now passed Cannon on the depth chart.

BOTTOM LINE (if rumors are true)
Stork and Fleming needed time to get ready for prime time. Apparently, they are now ready. So much for Fleming being "raw". Also, Wendell is now healthy and available as a backup center, and Cannon at the backup swing OT and blocking TE. Kline could even be active as an emergency backup OG.

I am very, very comfortable with
1) Cannon returning to his role as backup OT.
2) Devey being on the bench, or better yet inactive.

A MAJOR WARNING (if rumors are true)
This is our 2014 line playing its first game together. It may take a month or so to gel, and no time at all to better than last week.

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AzPatsFan said:

Cannon is too good a player to relegate to the bench. To build continuity, it takes time and continued playing together. Three games is not as good as four games, so I'd prefer that the experiment continue with Solder and Cannon, rather then going back to Square One and starting from scratch.

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Peachhead said:

I've got no inside information. It's just my opinion.

We've got three formerly solid guys (Solder, Vollmer & Cannon) and one formerly OK guy (Connolly) regressing badly. A rookie (albeit a late rounder) who didn't make it out of camp and hasn't even gotten a sniff on anyone's practice squad. And very little in the way of bright spots. Pass protection sucks, run blocking sucks, hell..even our screen game sucks because D-linemen are getting in the way of it or tackling the receiver instantly. Sweeps don't work for that reason too. And inside runs suck as well. I just saw a graphic on ESPN, we've got the 23rd best offense and Brady has taken more hits over the first three games than any time in his career (11 more than last year).

I forget the name of the phenomenon, but many (many) years ago, in a business class, I learned that when you've got that many individuals in the same department (or line or unit) screwing up at the exact same time, it's rarely is the fault of the individuals. It's not a co-incidence. Several people don't usually screw up in the exact same way at the exact same time. If that happens it's systemic; it's higher up the chain. And since the only new coach on the team is the O-line coach, for me, that narrows it way down.

If say, a few guys sucked, but a few guys looked pretty good, or pass protection sucked but run blocking showed promise (or vice-versa) or any bright spots, however inconsistent, we could say "It's just a new system, and a learning curve. They'll get it with a little more time". But this is by far the worst O-line of the BB era, with little-to-no improvements from week-to-week, and a dearth of bright spots to hang our hat on.

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AzPatsFan said:

Cannon is too good a player to relegate to the bench. To build continuity, it takes time and continued playing together. Three games is not as good as four games, so I'd prefer that the experiment continue with Solder and Cannon, rather then going back to Square One and starting from scratch.

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Brady6 said:

I have been saying for a month to just start Stork at OC and Fleming at RG and deal with the bumps in the road. I do not agree with removing Marcus Cannon from the lineup, that is a bad decision in my opinion, Dan Connolly struggles at RG he is going to have even more difficulty at LG.

I want them to roll with:

LT- Solder
LG- Cannon
OC- Stork
RG- Fleming
RT- Vollmer

That line is young and talented, and it could be a long-term solution.

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Brady6 said:

I have been saying for a month to just start Stork at OC and Fleming at RG and deal with the bumps in the road. I do not agree with removing Marcus Cannon from the lineup, that is a bad decision in my opinion, Dan Connolly struggles at RG he is going to have even more difficulty at LG.

I want them to roll with:

LT- Solder
LG- Cannon
OC- Stork
RG- Fleming
RT- Vollmer

That line is young and talented, and it could be a long-term solution.

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Galeb said:

Would prefer this type of info didn't leak.

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Rob0729 said:

Cannon has proven he isn't a guard. He is slow to react and doesn't move well. He is a tackle as much as I thought he was better suited to be guard. I may rather see him play center than guard ever again.

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Brady6 said:

If Cannon ran the 20-yard shuttle in 4.97 seconds and the 3-cone in 8.07, both are faster than Fleming who ran the shuttle in 5.00 seconds and the 3-cone in 8.24. For reference, Stork ran the shuttle in 5.02 and the 3-cone in 7.90. Pads must make a major difference in Cannon’s lateral movement if what you say is in fact true; I honestly have never watched him close enough to say.

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primetime said:

He's also very slow to react. I'm also not sure that a 1/20 of a second difference in a combine drill really says all that much about how the player actually plays. Cannon's just stiff and doesn't use his hands well.

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mayoclinic said:

Do you really believe 3 games is a dispositive sample at a new position? I grant the reaction time issue, but I think that could be overcome in time and with a good life general.

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