* Official Deus Irae 9/7/2014 game observations (and more) thread *

RayClay · Sep 8, 2014

james87654 said:
ill just have to respectfully see it a little different and move on

You won't get the ball.

james87654 · Sep 8, 2014

RayClay said:
You won't get the ball.

woe is me......

everlong · Sep 8, 2014

While they had issues in all three phases and on every level of the offense and defense the ones I find the most disconcerting are the OL and DL which were both equally inept. While it's one game and heat probably was a factor if you're not concerned with both the talent and depth I think fooling yourself.

If the OL protects like that many more weeks the Garoppolo era will be ushered in a lot sooner than any of us want. Brady was getting killed. He certainly missed a few when he did have time and the receivers surely didn't strike fear into anybody's heart. After they took Edelman away in the second half it was ugly. However Gronk will look more Gronk-ish as the weeks go on and Dobson will have an impact. Wright will likely play a bigger role. DA and LaFell I'm not so sure.

On the DL if that's what Vince as become they're in big trouble. The 3-4 isn't working. 4-3 under was what I was expecting. They need some real work.

james87654 · Sep 8, 2014

Well everyone......it was fun.......time to see what felger has to say

i would walk through fire for that man

condon84 · Sep 8, 2014

ATippett56 said:
New England Patriots offense - 60 pass attempts (including sacks), 20 rush attempts. For a team with a half time lead and the opponent down to three backup linebackers, this crap needs to end fast or Tom Brady will end up on injured reserve before the second half of the season.

Doesn't Brady have the freedom to audible at the LOS based on the best possible matchup to either run or pass?

iapatsfan · Sep 8, 2014

Rob0729 said:
I agree. Mankins was not the difference to the problems on the o-line yesterday. Well that said except I felt the constant substitutions yesterday did not allow the o-line get any consistency (Belichick and McDaniels needs to pick five starters and stick with them). The Pats were getting killed on the outside rush which Mankins couldn't help.

As for the Wright thing, Deus has already made up his mind that he is a bust because he is just a WR pretending to be TE and he decided that he would use this to justify his opinion. I was hopeful they could have given him a package to make him effective, but he has been on the team for less than two weeks.

Deus used to be an intelligent and rational poster, but he is now just a disgruntled fan with an agenda. He has his opinion and once he makes it, he is right and anyone disagrees with him is a moron and his opinion will never change. For example, he has said that the Jamie Collins selection will always be a bad pick even if Collins ends up going to the HOF because he wasn't a need pick (which is funny because I think the Pats need at least one more of his type of LB).

I'm more along the line of I think the Collins pick was a bad pick because I don't think he's very good.

Rob0729 · Sep 8, 2014

iapatsfan said:
I'm more along the line of I think the Collins pick was a bad pick because I don't think he's very good.

How do you judge that on one game. He was very good late last year. He did some good and some bad yesterday. But no one did a lot of good yesterday.

iapatsfan · Sep 8, 2014

Deus Irae said:
You're welcome to believe that Devey is as good an offensive guard as is Logan Mankins. Devey himself probably doesn't think that he's at that level, but whatever works for you.

As for Wright, he is what he is. He's a WR playing on the end of the line. Again, that's not his fault, and it probably wouldn't have been an issue if Gronk had been 100% healthy, Devey was starter material and OHOH hadn't stunk out the joint.

I don't think Wright is an issue at all. A LT that is easily overpowered, a skittish aging QB, no effective RT and a bottom quarter of the league WR core are the issues. No explosive athletes (possibly with exception of Easley, but we need more time to know) in the front 7 is also an issue. I know Collins's testing numbers say otherwise, but he doesn't play like an explosive athlete to me. Nobody in our front 7 scares anybody, and yes that includes Chandler Jones. He's slow as molasses.

iapatsfan · Sep 8, 2014

Rob0729 said:
How do you judge that on one game. He was very good late last year. He did some good and some bad yesterday. But no one did a lot of good yesterday.

He had one good game last year. Other than that he was a non factor.

Rob0729 · Sep 8, 2014

iapatsfan said:
He had one good game last year. Other than that he was a non factor.

That's not true. He had one outstanding game, but was actually pretty good for about the last month of the season. He was not a non-factor towards the end of last year.

primetime · Sep 8, 2014

iapatsfan said:
I'm more along the line of I think the Collins pick was a bad pick because I don't think he's very good.

Collins was one of the few bright spots yesterday on defense. He looked closer to being the best defensive player on the field than he did to being a wasted pick.

iapatsfan · Sep 8, 2014

Rob0729 said:
How do you judge that on one game. He was very good late last year. He did some good and some bad yesterday. But no one did a lot of good yesterday.

He always appears to be moving in slow motion, he tries to arm tackle, he's slow to react, he's easily blocked and can't get off the blocker when he's engaged, doesn't appear to like contact and attempts to go around blockers vs. engage (huge problem yesterday), etc.

iapatsfan · Sep 8, 2014

primetime said:
Collins was one of the few bright spots yesterday on defense. He looked closer to being the best defensive player on the field than he did to being a wasted pick.

If you like your LBs trying to run around blocks vs. engage. He was a huge problem in the run D yesterday as his "dodge the blocker act" routinely created running lanes. He's also a terrible tackler. He's a soft player who reacts slowly. Hightower played a much better game than Collins. At least he showed something resembling a pass rush move when he got his roughing flag.

Rob0729 · Sep 8, 2014

iapatsfan said:
He always appears to be moving in slow motion, he tries to arm tackle, he's slow to react, he's easily blocked and can't get off the blocker when he's engaged, doesn't appear to like contact and attempts to go around blockers vs. engage (huge problem yesterday), etc.

Did you see the hit he made on Mike Wallace where he forced the fumble?

Moving in slow motion? Are you confusing him with Donte Hightower? If Collins is moving in slow motion, Hightower is moving in reverse. Collins is a former safety and is lightning fast for a LB.

Deus Irae · Sep 8, 2014

iapatsfan said:
I'm more along the line of I think the Collins pick was a bad pick because I don't think he's very good.

Collins was a bad pick because the team had other, more pressing, positional needs that could have been filled with players from strong draft groups. It's not Collins' fault, and it doesn't matter how he turns out. It goes back to Belichick trying to out think the room on the Tavon Wilson pick.

Could have been:

Lavonte David
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger
Dobson

Or

Sanu/Hilton/Randle
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger
Collins (small move up might have been needed)

But Belichick chose to go after a low-end safety in a crap safety year. They also missed an obvious trade up in Markus Wheaton, but at least they got Josh Boyce <cough>.

Pointing out this obvious issue is a problem for the Insane Homer Posse.

iapatsfan · Sep 8, 2014

Rob0729 said:
That's not true. He had one outstanding game, but was actually pretty good for about the last month of the season. He was not a non-factor towards the end of last year.

Yeah, there are a lot of OCs losing sleep over Jamie freaking Collins. Athletic JAG.

Rob0729 · Sep 8, 2014

Deus Irae said:
Collins was a bad pick because the team had other, more pressing, positional needs that could have been filled with players from strong draft groups. It's not Collins' fault, and it doesn't matter how he turns out. It goes back to Belichick trying to out think the room on the Tavon Wilson pick.

Could have been:

Lavonte David
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger
Dobson

Or

Sanu/Hilton/Randle
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger
Collins (small move up might have been needed)

But Belichick chose to go after a low-end safety in a crap safety year. They also missed an obvious trade up in Markus Wheaton, but at least they got Josh Boyce <cough>.

Pointing out this obvious issue is a problem for the Insane Homer Posse.

LOL! Yes, the Pats had no need for coverage LB. They had Brandon "no TE catches a ball on me" Spikes who was arguably the best coverage LB in the NFL. Sorry, but coverage LBs were a huge need during last year's draft and you don't draft solely based on short term needs.

If Collins ends up being a disappointment, that is one thing. If he becomes a solid starting coverage LB, he is a fantastic pick.

And Tavon Wilson is his own pick. You cannot judge Collins on other picks. He looks to be a solid pick.

And the issue is that you argued that Collins was a horrible pick and no matter how well he does in his career, that won't change that. And apparently that is the "thoughtful analysis" that people think makes you a good poster.

Rob0729 · Sep 8, 2014

iapatsfan said:
Yeah, there are a lot of OCs losing sleep over Jamie freaking Collins. Athletic JAG.

LOL! You are arguing that Collins looks slow on the field and you are mocking my analysis of him?

primetime · Sep 8, 2014

Deus Irae said:
Collins was a bad pick because the team had other, more pressing, positional needs that could have been filled with players from strong draft groups. It's not Collins' fault, and it doesn't matter how he turns out. It goes back to Belichick trying to out think the room on the Tavon Wilson pick.

Could have been:

Lavonte David
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger
Dobson

Or

Sanu/Hilton/Randle
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger
Collins (small move up might have been needed)

But Belichick chose to go after a low-end safety in a crap safety year. They also missed an obvious trade up in Markus Wheaton, but at least they got Josh Boyce <cough>.

Pointing out this obvious issue is a problem for the Insane Homer Posse.

It also could have been Darius Slay or Menelik Watson. Hindsight is 20/20 and the Patriots, like every other team, aren't going to draft an All-Pro at every slot. Even with hindsight, linebacker looks like a pretty pressing need since Mayo and Hightower both looked slow and overmatched yesterday and there are no NFL-caliber backups.

iapatsfan · Sep 8, 2014

Rob0729 said:
LOL! Yes, the Pats had no need for coverage LB. They had Brandon "no TE catches a ball on me" Spikes who was arguably the best coverage LB in the NFL. Sorry, but coverage LBs were a huge need during last year's draft and you don't draft solely based on short term needs.

If Collins ends up being a disappointment, that is one thing. If he becomes a solid starting coverage LB, he is a fantastic pick.

And Tavon Wilson is his own pick. You cannot judge Collins on other picks. He looks to be a solid pick.

Sure, he'll be a fantastic pick as long as you ignore his inability to get off blocks and his inability to tackle.

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