Pats backroom let down Brady AGAIN

Big-T said:

Of course the style is changing! Look at every OL DeGuglielmo has put out - they're big, physical maulers - just like the guys drafted yesterday. Gone are the days of light weights who get man handled by the likes of "Pot Roast". Mankins fits in still because he's a real mauler too, he's going to love playing in that style.

Stork was also voted the best Center on College Football last year for a reason.

Click to expand...

How do Solder and Vollmer fit?

Stork was the best college center last year, I'm not debating that but players like Tebow have proven that college success does not mean you will succeed at the next level, also Stork played with Winston a mobile QB.

Brady6 said:

How do Solder and Vollmer fit?

Click to expand...

Vollmer is a mauler, Solder is a monster in the run game too - don't they average something silly like 5 YPC running behind him?

The line looks like it's being rebuilt to be old school hat on a hat our men are bigger, better and stronger than yours style.

Brady6 said:

I love the people who troll around here clicking "dislike" and "disagree" but don't even have the fortitude to write post.

Click to expand...

Why are you so bothered by this? I can't imagine a less important thing in the world than reputation on an internet message board about sports.

Big-T said:

Of course the style is changing! Look at every OL DeGuglielmo has put out - they're big, physical maulers - just like the guys drafted yesterday. Gone are the days of light weights who get man handled by the likes of "Pot Roast". Mankins fits in still because he's a real mauler too, he's going to love playing in that style.

Stork was also voted the best Center on College Football last year for a reason.

Click to expand...

Exactly. I'm baffled that people here aren't more excited about this than they are. When given time & protection, Brady can take mediocre receiving corps to the SB and win. Example: 2001, 2003, 2004. On the other hand, Brady has never won a SB throwing to the likes of Moss or Welker. This is because it doesn't matter who you have the option of throwing it to if you don't have enough time to do so. Example: 2007, 2011.

Brady6 said:

It is more hilarious that the Patriots lost a player that they valued at $40M and have not replaced him and you do not have any concerns and keep coming back to Brandon LaFell who is not going to fill that role, he is a 6'3" 210lb WR I'm not sure where this idea came from that he could play tight end, LaFell put up 11 reps at the combine in 2010 so unless he has been hitting the juice he does not have the strength to play TE.

Click to expand...

Play GM. This TE class was not deep. There were no great free agent TEs actually on the market to snap-up at any price (the names were re-signed). If you are chafing over the handling of that position, and there really wasn't any answer on the market, then where do you magically find this replacement from the date Hernandez was released until now? Getting bigger receivers would appear to be a game plan shift to move the offense to a more effective place than it currently can be rather than lamenting what you lack (and cannot replace at any price).

Big-T said:

Vollmer is a mauler, Solder is a monster in the run game too - don't they average something silly like 5 YPC running behind him?

The line looks like it's being rebuilt to be old school hat on a hat our men are bigger, better and stronger than yours style.

Click to expand...

Wendell was the top rated center in the running game in 2012 and was 3rd in 2013. That is not my concern pass protection is my concerns against these new 3 DE sub fronts how are these players going to with their athletic ability against players like JJ Watt.

Deus Irae said:

Outside of the injuries, I don't think it's luck. It's pretty clear that there's a specific way to beat the Patriots.

Have a D-line that's either very powerful or very quick in attacking the Patriots IOL
Get up on the receivers and force Brady to hold the ball longer than usual
Take out, or at least significantly limit, Welker/Moss/Gronk through scheme or injury
Play possession football on offense, in the sense of going on long drives with a lot of plays, as keeping Brady on the sidelines throws the Patriots offense out of sync and limits the number of Patriots possessions.

With the exception of the 2010 brainlock game, that's how the Patriots have been beaten in every single playoff loss from 2007 to 2013.

Click to expand...

They've also beaten teams that have tried to do that. They also lost due to turnovers, missed field goals, bad playcalls, and so on. I think they can improve their roster at a number of positions, but I also think they're still one of the best teams in the NFL and no team is going to be perfect.

primetime said:

Why are you so bothered by this? I can't imagine a less important thing in the world than reputation on an internet message board about sports.

Click to expand...

People abuse it and it can cause problems on boards. That's why a lot of boards won't do negative rep.

We're already seeing examples of it here, with people disliking or disagreeing with simple facts. It'll get worse if people don't figure out how to use it.

primetime said:

Why are you so bothered by this? I can't imagine a less important thing in the world than reputation on an internet message board about sports.

Click to expand...

I just find it to be weak, don't disgrace another persons opinion when you aren't even willing to put your own out there.

Plus people misuse it the use to for jihad, take coach42 he has given 17 of my dislikes. It you can't use the system properly you should not be allowed to use it.

Brady6 said:

Heels, you do not know if the picks will work out either yet you sit here and talk them up, but you refer to me as Nostradamus for saying something differing, hypercritical much.

Here are some players who would have been day one picks in any other draft.
Morgan Mosses
Marcus Martin
Louis Nix
Donte Moncrief
Scott Crichton

Click to expand...

Morgan Moses would only be a first-round pick because he can play left tackle. In a year when there weren't very many good tackles, or OL in general, and with a team in desperate need of a left tackle, he might have sneaked in there...much like Ja'Wuan James did this year.

Marcus Martin? Hey, I wanted the kid...but a 20-year-old pure center in the first round?
No center has been drafted in the first round in 6 of the last 10 drafts. And only 8 guards. I heard a lot of talk about Martin being intriguing, but didn't hear much about him as the next coming of Alex Mack.

Nix dropped for a reason...didn't we see the same thing with a big NT last year? He wasn't a 1st-rounder because he wasn't picked in the 1st round and there's no reason to believe he would have been any other year.

Montcrief might be pretty good, but 1st rounder? Meh. He went 90th, for cripes sakes. And it's not a position you wanted the Pats to draft anyway.

Crichton? Meh. Nothing elite about him. Would you take him over, say, Chandler Jones? No? Then how is he a first round pick. You're reaching.

primetime said:

They've also beaten teams that have tried to do that. They also lost due to turnovers, missed field goals, bad playcalls, and so on. I think they can improve their roster at a number of positions, but I also think they're still one of the best teams in the NFL and no team is going to be perfect.

Click to expand...

Yes, they've beaten teams who've tried that but that's irrelevant. What's relevant is who they've lost to, and how, because there's a common thread (again, with the exception of the loss to the Jets a/k/a the Bonehead game) and that's where the Patriots need to focus. Quality teams that can get up the middle and slow down the receivers can beat the Patriots.

Hell, I doubt it was ever more obvious than in 2009, and we've got BB on tape with that one.

50-yard-line said:

Morgan Moses would only be a first-round pick because he can play left tackle. In a year when there weren't very many good tackles, or OL in general, and with a team in desperate need of a left tackle, he might have sneaked in there...much like Ja'Wuan James did this year.

Marcus Martin? Hey, I wanted the kid...but a 20-year-old pure center in the first round?
No center has been drafted in the first round in 6 of the last 10 drafts. And only 8 guards. I heard a lot of talk about Martin being intriguing, but didn't hear much about him as the next coming of Alex Mack.

Nix dropped for a reason...didn't we see the same thing with a big NT last year? He wasn't a 1st-rounder because he wasn't picked in the 1st round and there's no reason to believe he would have been any other year.

Montcrief might be pretty good, but 1st rounder? Meh. He went 90th, for cripes sakes. And it's not a position you wanted the Pats to draft anyway.

Crichton? Meh. Nothing elite about him. Would you take him over, say, Chandler Jones? No? Then how is he a first round pick. You're reaching.

Click to expand...

Martin was on the board at #62. That is the player we should have drafted, not JG.

COMPARES TO: Alex Mack, Cleveland Browns -- Mack was among the more polished and talented centers in recent history when he left Cal and was selected by the Browns with the 21st overall pick of the 2009 draft. Martin isn't yet at this stage but his upside is clear, as is his grit and physicality. With dedication to his craft, Martin could emerge as a quality starter in the NFL.

Click to expand...

Texxx said:

Dude, they were one miracle Eli Manning hail marry play away from having the best team of all time in NFL history. To say that it didn't work is the dumbest thing I've seen anyone say in here. They destroyed the entire league and had that game in the bag. They also dropped an easy INT that should have closed the game on the final drive. You are way out of bounds to bring up that team and make such an irrational suggestion about a team that beat the piss out of everyone and lost due to a guy making a catch off of his helmet. Lol!

Click to expand...

Did you even watch SB42? Brady got his lunch handed to him because o-line couldn't protect him. On defense, they couldn't pressure a Eli enough. Greatest offense in history at the time could only muster 14 points. No gronk, moss or welker is going to help the team unless the man throwing the ball has time to get it to them.

Snake Eyes said:

I think you're focusing too much on highlights and ignoring the grit of the game.

How much pressure did the Giants D-line get on Brady?

Could Maroney break arm tackles, making the run game a threat?

Could the Pats D-line get pressure on Manning?

Who dominated the trenches?

Click to expand...

The Giants got pressure. Maroney had talent but was not a gamer. Eli was sacked 3 times, Brady was sacked 5 (and hit a lot).

Despite all of that, the Pats had more first downs, about the same time of possession, 60 fewer yards, and were a Warren sack (on the helmet catch), a Samuel pick off his fingers, or a drop by Tyree in his career play away from putting the game away. The game was about as equal as they come. The Pats led through 3 quarters, lost, regained, then finally lost the lead in the 4th. That isn't the highlights. That is the reality/grit of that game. That last touchdown by the Giants, the only one that really mattered, was luck. Grit had little to do with it.

Brady6 said:

It is not even that I think Stork and Halapio are bad players I just don't see them fitting our OL scheme and therefore I view them as bad picks for our team. They aren't athletic enough to do what we expect our players to do.

Click to expand...

So you don't think they fit. Belichick thinks they do.

Hmmm not sure who i'm going to side with on this one.

BritPat said:

I'd say there's plenty of depth.
Don't count out Gallon either, if I could have picked one player from any program out of the Draft, other than Jason Verrett, it would have been Gallon. He is going to cause some arguments on here over the next few months, guaranteed.

Click to expand...

I was watching a highlight video of him. Seems like a playmaker, though did not see a lot of separation most times although there was when he fooled his defender. Lots of contested balls that he caught, a few times he was lit up and still held on to the ball. He absolutely skooled Darqueze Dennard on one play when Dennard was playing press with safety help. But that's the only play they showed of him against Dennard. Has some speed but it's not elite burner speed. Another 1st round pick Bradley Roby ran him down from behind on a great screen play. And in other plays defenders are running the same speed as him. Saw him lineup outside in the majority of the snaps in that highlight video. He's only 5'9, I wonder where he would have went had he been 5'11/6'.

Brady6 said:

I love the people who troll around here clicking "dislike" and "disagree" but don't even have the fortitude to write post.

Click to expand...

Take notice it's always the same people that get disliked/disagreed button...it becomes a pattern...so why even bother writing a post when you can just hit the dislike/disagree button and watch that person make a post about it!

Never play someone elses games...they'll always win!

Snake Eyes said:

Sure, but the good ones can still get the job done. Defenses have been stalling the Patriot offense in the same basic way for several years because the structural flaws have not been addressed.

Click to expand...

This is just so totally wrong. The Patriot offense has been the best in the NFL for 'several years'.
The playoff losses are only 'the same' if you are ignorant.

Andy, the other day you said Garoppolo was not an NFL caliber pick, what do you think of taking him where we did?

Click to expand...

Not quite what I said. I said I saw a report that he has incredibly small hands and fumbles a lot.
So I don't like the pick, but I have less than 1% of the information about the guy that BB has, so I am smart enough to know that if I am right its more luck than insight, as opposed to other who think they could read the internet and do a better job of drafting.

TommyBrady12 said:

Did you even watch SB42? Brady got his lunch handed to him because o-line couldn't protect him. On defense, they couldn't pressure a Eli enough. Greatest offense in history at the time could only muster 14 points. No gronk, moss or welker is going to help the team unless the man throwing the ball has time to get it to them.

Click to expand...

Brady could barely move because of his ankle injury
Neal was lost on the second drive of the game
TEs were lost to injury
Hobbs was playing on a shredded groin

Patriots still win if the helmet catch doesn't happen or holding/in the grasp is called

Texxx said:

I didn't want one in the draft. I wanted them to get a real quality wideout the last two off seasons in free agency. Desean Jackson would have been perfect along with Wallace or Jennings as well.

Click to expand...

Lol, you wanted the pats to sign another player for $8 million after they just gave revis $12 million? Do you really think the pats can magically increase the salary cap?

JMC00 said:

So you don't think they fit. Belichick thinks they do.

Hmmm not sure who i'm going to side with on this one.

Click to expand...

They don't fit. That's obvious. The team is obviously, for this draft anyway, going to transition away from small, nimble technicians towards larger power players on the inside.