Hypothetical – If you could only keep one who would it be Amendola or Edelman?

Ivan said:

I think Edelman is a very good PR but saying he is better than Hester is like saying that Fred Jackson is a better RB than Barry Sanders

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I would agree Edelman is not as good as Hester. Hester's career average is only about 1YPR less than Edelman while Hester has more touchdowns. The 1 yard probably wouldn't make a huge difference to Brady. HOWEVER, this does not mean that Edelman isn't one of the best return men in the game. Having that consistency in the return game does turn into points because we have TB12.

In context of this post I think what's at issue is that while Amendola and Edelman are about the same contribution level at WR (maybe Edelman getting an edge here too), Jules is doing an elite job at another position too (PR.) He also, of course, is a contributor to scout team and at DB when injuries kill the team. So his relative value is still higher than Amendola no matter how you look at it. That's good value for 1 roster spot.

I get what you're saying, but it shouldn't be excluded that he can be elite without being the best or in contention for said title.

Ivan said:

Ignoring the contractual realities I will take Calvin Johnson.

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You didn't cast a vote.

Brady6 said:

You didn't cast a vote.

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I vote for Calvin Johnson, which may seem incredibly stupid but it is still in keeping with the spirit of this thread.


I have no doubt your Trade Brady start Mallett thread won't be far off, all it will take is a couple of interceptions and he will be too old and suck. I will vote for Steve Grogan in that one.

RobAllan said:

I would agree Edelman is not as good as Hester. Hester's career average is only about 1YPR less than Edelman while Hester has more touchdowns. The 1 yard probably wouldn't make a huge difference to Brady. HOWEVER, this does not mean that Edelman isn't one of the best return men in the game. Having that consistency in the return game does turn into points because we have TB12.

In context of this post I think what's at issue is that while Amendola and Edelman are about the same contribution level at WR (maybe Edelman getting an edge here too), Jules is doing an elite job at another position too (PR.) He also, of course, is a contributor to scout team and at DB when injuries kill the team. So his relative value is still higher than Amendola no matter how you look at it. That's good value for 1 roster spot.

I get what you're saying, but it shouldn't be excluded that he can be elite without being the best or in contention for said title.

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I agree that Edelman is one of the best PR's in football,and i am glad this came up because it really demonstrates how meaningless stats can be in evaluating performance in football. Devin Hester is the most dangerous punt returner in the history of football, and head coaches have been ordering their kickers to keep it as far away from him as possible from the moment he came into the league, and while i have no doubt coaches respect Edelman as a punt returner no one has ever mistaken him for Devin Hester, and he will never evoke the kind of fear Hester did unless he breaks off about 8-10 for touchdowns. The yards per return numbers are literally meaningless and anyone who has followed the NFL for the last 10 years and seen what Hester can do knows that it's like comparing Deion Sanders to Aquib Talib. That's no Knock on Talib because when healthy he's among the best at his position, but comparing him to the GOAT would be idiotic, and that's what people are trying to do here with Edelman, compare him to the GOAT, and that's crazy. If the question was whether Edelman is the best PR in football right now it would be a discussion, when it is whether he is the GOAT it's absurd.


*For the record the question of whether Sanders is the GOAT is debatable. but you get the point.

This is a valid question, but since I am not a professional football scout or a quality head coach such as Belichick, I am going to sit back and allow him to earn his 500k per game and make that decision for us.

If Belichick feels that Amendola has much more polished skills as an actual wide receiver than Julian Edelman, we'll know based on what he offers Edelman. I do however, feel that he will make a concerted attempt to make as reasonable of an offer as possible to try and keep Edelman though, just based off of what I view as solid improvement from Edelman in terms of his continued improvement as an actual wide receiver.

One thing to keep in mind is that Amendola is the stronger, more physical blocker, and he very well may have been instructed to take on that role in more than one game this season. Obviously his blocking talent was on display in the DEN game, which also obviously helped open up some routes for Edelman to take advantage of. I think Amendola is the more proven, solid route runner. I also think that Edelman has worked hard to get on the same page as Brady, and that Belichick will show appreciation for that (along with his obvious ST play). Hopefully, Edelman will want to stay for a reasonable amount of something between 2-3 million dollars AAV. If that's the case, we should be fine with having both of them.

supafly said:

This is a valid question, but since I am not a professional football scout or a quality head coach such as Belichick, I am going to sit back and allow him to earn his 500k per game and make that decision for us.

If Belichick feels that Amendola has much more polished skills as an actual wide receiver than Julian Edelman, we'll know based on what he offers Edelman. I do however, feel that he will make a concerted attempt to make as reasonable of an offer as possible to try and keep Edelman though, just based off of what I view as solid improvement from Edelman in terms of his continued improvement as an actual wide receiver.

One thing to keep in mind is that Amendola is the stronger, more physical blocker, and he very well may have been instructed to take on that role in more than one game this season. Obviously his blocking talent was on display in the DEN game, which also obviously helped open up some routes for Edelman to take advantage of. I think Amendola is the more proven, solid route runner. I also think that Edelman has worked hard to get on the same page as Brady, and that Belichick will show appreciation for that (along with his obvious ST play). Hopefully, Edelman will want to stay for a reasonable amount of something between 2-3 million dollars AAV. If that's the case, we should be fine with having both of them.

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Sup, I don't agree that it's a valid question at all. Belichick signed Amendola to a 5 year deal because he believes in him and regardless of his numbers this year he's going to be on this team next year and he's going to be starting. Something is only a valid question if there is any likelihood of it happening, and there is no way short of him joining the prisoner that he won't be a Patriot next year, especially when it means taking a big cap hit to get rid of him, which would make no sense at all.

Edelman is a separate question and while they have the cap space in terms of unit spending Belichick simply may not want to give it to Edelman.

Ivan said:

Sup, I don't agree that it's a valid question at all. Belichick signed Amendola to a 5 year deal because he believes in him and regardless of his numbers this year he's going to be on this team next year and he's going to be starting. Something is only a valid question if there is any likelihood of it happening, and there is no way short of him joining the prisoner that he won't be a Patriot next year, especially when it means taking a big cap hit to get rid of him, which would make no sense at all.

Edelman is a separate question and while they have the cap space in terms of unit spending Belichick simply may not want to give it to Edelman.

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Then maybe I misunderstood, because I've been pointing out to many others the fact that Amendola isn't going anywhere next year just due to the contract situation (and some other reasons that we won't get into).

I didn't realize that we were specifically talking about 2014 alone. I looked at the question as a general, one vs the other kind of scenario. In that regard, I can understand it being a bit more divided, and that is why I deemed it as "valid."

If we're talking about next season specifically, then hell no---Amendola isn't going anywhere. Like the majority I assume, I would like to retain Edelman because I think he has shown hard work and continued improvement in being an actual WR, as opposed to just a punt returner who can make an occasion big game on a screen or a trick play. I think that Edelman is becoming more polished as opposed to his "raw" talent that he's displayed in the past.

supafly said:

Then maybe I misunderstood, because I've been pointing out to many others the fact that Amendola isn't going anywhere next year just due to the contract situation (and some other reasons that we won't get into).

I didn't realize that we were specifically talking about 2014 alone. I looked at the question as a general, one vs the other kind of scenario. In that regard, I can understand it being a bit more divided, and that is why I deemed it as "valid."

If we're talking about next season specifically, then hell no---Amendola isn't going anywhere. Like the majority I assume, I would like to retain Edelman because I think he has shown hard work and continued improvement in being an actual WR, as opposed to just a punt returner who can make an occasion big game on a screen or a trick play.

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The premise of the thread is getting rid of Amendola to keep Welker, which is ridiculous because that isn't going to happen, They will try to keep Edelman but cutting Amendola is not going to be in play as they try to re-sign him.

Ivan said:

I vote for Calvin Johnson, which may seem incredibly stupid but it is still in keeping with the spirit of this thread.


I have no doubt your Trade Brady start Mallett thread won't be far off, all it will take is a couple of interceptions and he will be too old and suck. I will vote for Steve Grogan in that one.

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I think everyone would pick Calvin Johnson Jr. unfortunately he is not an option, there are 2 options Amendola or Edelman and I think you should either select one or take your trolling behavior elsewhere. If you lack the fortitude to vote you really have no business in this thread posting anything, there is nothing weaker than a poster who wants to belittle the opinions of others while being to stoic to even make an actual selection. You can call it your unwillingness to find this to be a worthwhile question but we both know that you’re just a feeble poster.

FYI – Brady is my favorite NFL player of all time so I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for that post. It is freaking hilarious that you even mention Danny Amendola’s name in the same sentence as Tom Brady, that is like comparing a Kia to a Bentley, they both may be cars but one is entry level and the other is the best you can buy.

Ivan said:

The premise of the thread is getting rid of Amendola to keep Welker, which is ridiculous because that isn't going to happen, They will try to keep Edelman but cutting Amendola is not going to be in play as they try to re-sign him.

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We are keeping Welker? He left this past offseason, so no that is not the premise of this thread at all, the premise of this thread is to determine who people feel is the better and more valuable player Danny Amendola or Julian Edelman. Currently more than 3/4 of voters selected Edelman over Amendola, although we do have some people who haven’t voted yet >>> Ivan

goheels22002 said:

I voted for Amendola in the poll specifically because his cap hit after this season would be a larger pill to swallow than Edelman's $0 since he's a free agent after 2013, and he's not likely to command more than the $10 million in guaranteed money that Amendola got including his $6 million signing bonus.

Report: Danny Amendola?s Five-Year, $31 Million Contract Depends on Wide Receiver Staying Healthy | New England Patriots | NESN.com

Would I re-sign Edelman? Presuming he stays healthy for the remainder of the 2013 season and playoffs, I'd sign him in a heartbeat for an Amendola type signing bonus ($6 million) and two to three years guaranteed with performance bonuses. He's a great punt returner and solid #4 receiver. He does not have the skills of Welker in the slot, nor the versatility of Woodhead out of the backfield.

Edelman is also an emergency quarterback option, and has played DB capably in an emergency role. Guys as versatile as this are well worth the investment.

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Thanks for the link on Amendola's contract, I had no idea on the particulars. If the story is accurate the Patriots are largely, on average and in real money, paying his first two years' contract average with guaranteed money (approx 6.25M x 2). Following the 2014 season the accelerated cap hit is not extremely prohibitive if he were to be cut. ((if my math is correct))
What it means is DA will be on the team in 2014 (which was really never in doubt). After 2014 season his play will determine his status with the Patriots for the 2015 season.

Not aimed at anyone in particular but people are pretty consistent in their 'what have you done for me lately' mathematics. For instance:
Talib?? Character problem, coming off of a 4 game league suspension, injury problem, then plays a handful of really really good games = pay him anything!

Edelman?? Huge Injury risk - everyone believed he isn't a 16 game a season player, dropsies/error issues at WR, only season of any noticeable WR production was 4 years ago with 37 = sign him for big money (fyi, I am/was a big JE supporter this offseason)

Amendola?? 85 reception season, a 65 reception season (injury shortened season), for 4 years has been a pretty consistent 80+ catches per season WR (when extrapolating each of the last 4 season's stats to 16 games), 4 years of increasing YPC, all done with a much lesser QB on a much lesser team = we have Edelman?

Again I'm a past/present Edelman proponent but he hasn't been doing it long/consistently enough to feel confident he will be one of the primary WRs long term (Can you remember Edelman's 3 games prior to Denver?? 6 catches for 45 yards). On the other hand Amendola playing on a lesser team with a lesser QB showed a few times the production/ability to be one of the main WRs long term. That is a truer sample, one which unfortunately is about injury too, that should equal some confident enthusiasm to see what he will do on the Patriots, catching passes from TB.

Brady6 said:

I am not obsessed I am just looking to see what others think, I am not 100% certain that my position on Amendola is the right one but in the other thread all I was getting was a lot of smug comments and silly accusations so I figured this type of poll could offer some real insight into things. For me this message board is an opportunity to learn and engage in stimulating football discussion I do not just parade around thinking my opinion is the only opinion.

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I will answer the question, but not will not offer an unqualified answer because I don't know what the offseason brings.

(1) As an all purpose guy? Amendola does not returns punts for the Pats yet, and JE has done well there. If as a PR as well, then Edleman.

(2) As a WR? JE may have 61 receptions, but I would not be making him much more than a final receiver option. Amendola has better hands and quickness as a WR. He is a true WR. JE is a hybrid, all purpose piece much like Woodhead and I like him very much in that role. As a WR only, Amendola hands down.

(3) Contract hit? If JE gets offered a $5 or $6 million per year deal somewhere else, I expect he is gone. JE has been on the team for 4 years, and only in desperation has Brady been getting him the ball frequently. Despite all the claims JE is the new Welker, he isn't and everybody on the Pats knows that from the snaps and receptions he has had prior to this year.

(4) Health? For all the "made of glass" talk directed to Amendola, ask why JE does not have any 16 game seasons in 4 years. I have been waiting for him to get knocked onto the injury list, and have been very happy to see him stay on the field.

If the simplistic question is JE now (not injured) versus Amendola now (injured), and that is the product projected to next year, without an offseason and without a new contract figure, then JE over Amendola hands down. Without qualification, the question is so vague as to be unanswerable.

Sciz said:

It doesn't make much sense to me to pick between the two when I've been saying since before Amendola was signed that the Pats' best move was to have both and plan on having one healthy at a time and any time the second is healthy is a bonus.

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I understand your point but I don't think Kraft / BB signed Amendola with the philosophy that only he or JE would likely be healthy at a given time or that it would be a 'bonus' if both players were healthy.

As far as the original question it's Julian Edeleman, not even close.

MassPats38 said:

I will answer the question, but not will not offer an unqualified answer because I don't know what the offseason brings.

(1) As an all purpose guy? Amendola does not returns punts for the Pats yet, and JE has done well there. If as a PR as well, then Edleman.

(2) As a WR? JE may have 61 receptions, but I would not be making him much more than a final receiver option. Amendola has better hands and quickness as a WR. He is a true WR. JE is a hybrid, all purpose piece much like Woodhead and I like him very much in that role. As a WR only, Amendola hands down.

(3) Contract hit? If JE gets offered a $5 or $6 million per year deal somewhere else, I expect he is gone. JE has been on the team for 4 years, and only in desperation has Brady been getting him the ball frequently. Despite all the claims JE is the new Welker, he isn't and everybody on the Pats knows that from the snaps and receptions he has had prior to this year.

(4) Health? For all the "made of glass" talk directed to Amendola, ask why JE does not have any 16 game seasons in 4 years. I have been waiting for him to get knocked onto the injury list, and have been very happy to see him stay on the field.

If the simplistic question is JE now (not injured) versus Amendola now (injured), and that is the product projected to next year, without an offseason and without a new contract figure, then JE over Amendola hands down. Without qualification, the question is so vague as to be unanswerable.

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All great points and these are all factors that you can use to determine who to vote for. I am not campaigning for anyone player in particular you’re free to vote for the player you prefer most.

Edelman. He's about equal as a receiver and is the best punt returner in NFL history.

Brady6 said:

All great points and these are all factors that you can use to determine who to vote for. I am not campaigning for anyone player in particular you’re free to vote for the player you prefer most.

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But you are campaigning by using the relative success of Edleman (non-injured) and Amendola (injured) this season as a baseline. If Edleman is injured next week (and he does get injured) and out for the season, try repeating the question then. By ignoring those points, you apparently trying some sad end game that you believe supports an anti-Amendola position. Try reviewing the Roosevelt Colvin story with the Pats if you believe the Amendola problem is unprecedented, and see how the Pats handled that injury issue.

So what are you trying to assess with this poll, given the fact you are asking posters to assess the future without regard to (1) contract figures or (2) state of health of the individual at the time the season begins - the willingness to offer an uniformed opinion on differing assumptions that ignores the realities of the NFL?

You created the poll and apparently acknowledge its blatant flaws but decline to ask a clear poll question. Are you looking for randomness in the results, and hoping to use this poll to support some later argument against Amendola? Those unaddressed 'points' make any numbers you derive from this exercise useless.

Let's see how that works with a question posed in 2012. Do you want Hernandez back with the Pats in 2013 or 2014? Emphatically yes. Now let's try a more informed poll as follows: Hernandez will be charged with multiple homicides and will spend 2013 in jail awaiting trial - do you want Hernandez back with the Pats? Emphatically no.

MassPats38 said:

But you are campaigning by using the relative success of Edleman (non-injured) and Amendola (injured) this season as a baseline. If Edleman is injured next week (and he does get injured) and out for the season, try repeating the question then. By ignoring those points, you apparently trying some sad end game that you believe supports an anti-Amendola position. Try reviewing the Roosevelt Colvin story with the Pats if you believe the Amendola problem is unprecedented, and see how the Pats handled that injury issue.

So what are you trying to assess with this poll, given the fact you are asking posters to assess the future without regard to (1) contract figures or (2) state of health of the individual at the time the season begins - the willingness to offer an uniformed opinion on differing assumptions that ignores the realities of the NFL?

You created the poll and apparently acknowledge its blatant flaws but decline to ask a clear poll question. Are you looking for randomness in the results, and hoping to use this poll to support some later argument against Amendola? Those unaddressed 'points' make any numbers you derive from this exercise useless.

Let's see how that works with a question posed in 2012. Do you want Hernandez back with the Pats in 2013 or 2014? Emphatically yes. Now let's try a more informed poll as follows: Hernandez will be charged with multiple homicides and will spend 2013 in jail awaiting trial - do you want Hernandez back with the Pats? Emphatically no.

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Amendola and Edelman obviously can play together however I feel they both fit best as a Z receiver and a player who offers more ability to stretch the field like Emmanuel Sanders would be a better fit at the Y receiver. So whether it is in 2014 or 2015 at some point in the next 2 offseason we will likely have to determine whether we should cut Amendola loose for Edelman or let Edelman walk and maintain our investment in Edelman. I do not think it is the best use of our resources to invest starter money into 2 slot receivers.

Wow Edelman hasn’t dominated like this since last Sunday :rocker:

Edelman – 79%
Amendola – 21%

Jules! Guys been making plays for us since 2009.

Jules - gotta love his grit. That touchdown that put the pats ahead against Denver was a Bobby Orr moment the way he dove to paydirt. If he can learn to avoid big hits when possible, that would help him stay on the field.