Who's Up and Who's Down after the Eagles game

captain stone said:

Replace Koppen with Wendell, and I am in complete agreement.
Stallworth can't separate & can't catch in traffic;
Cannon & Solder were awful, again, esp Cannon;
Rivera simply isn't an NFL player;
I wasn't impressed w/ Glas-IR, either; he appeared to avoid contact at all costs.

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Glad to know that your bias against the players you've shown an unnatural hate for is continuing.

Dowling avoided LATE contact. Not contact at all costs. I can understand how would confuse the two.

Solder was average tonight. Not spectacular. He had two bad plays.

One of the things that I noticed is that the Refs didn't call Philly once for lining up in the neutral zone, which they did on almost every play.

Wendell was worse than Koppen last night.

PatsBoy12 said:

So Chung got injured again?

EDIT: I just heard about it. I find it hard to believe the Pats will offer him a new contract at this point. The guy spends more time on the sidelines than on the field. I don't know if there's been a more frustrating player to me in recent memory. He shows all the flashes but can't stay on the da*m field.

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Gotta love people like yourself who exaggerate to holy heaven and basically lie through your teeth about players. Chung has missed 10 games in 48. Not great, but certainly not the "spends more time on the sidelines than on the field" garbage you are spewing.

The list is so long regarding players who have been more frustrating than Chung I don't even know where to begin.

eagle eye said:

It was only one throw so it is unimportant. If he made a huge one down the sidelines that went all the way that doesn't make him a great QB just as one bad int is unimportant. He made a lot of good throws and good decisions last night.
No.12 has made some awful throws in his career but he consistently makes a lot of excellent throws so we don't bother about the odd horrendous throw/game and his decision making.

Last night Mallett was,

very cool in the pocket last night = improvement
was able to evade the consistent primary pass rush most of the time = improvement
had good footwork = improvement
made good decisions most of the time = improvement

And how on earth can you say he was holding onto the ball too long when the pressure was in his face instantly almost always last night?

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They are all important, as opposed to be not taken out of context. Brady makes few mistakes. Same can be said for Hoyer in limited action. Mallett not so much. If he ever gets consistently good we can start to rationalize his occasional mistakes.

He had multiple bad throws that were also bad decisions. Had some nice throws and good decisions, too. Certainly better than anything we've seen to date. Still not nearly where he should already and ultimately needs to be JUST to be a #2, let alone here.

Ryan Mallett did not have a good first quarter. Getting the start he threw an interception on a third-and-7 pass intended for Deion Branch. It was a startlingly easy pick for Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. That was wiped out by a roughing-the-passer penalty. Given a new life, Mallett took a sack on third-and-7 three plays later. That was wiped out by a defensive hold on Nnamdi Asomugha. Given a third life, Mallett eventually got the Patriots downfield and in for a touchdown early in the second. Mallett finished the quarter 6 for 12 for 60 yards. There was a drop by Jeremy Ebert in there but also a throw off the butt of Eagles corner Joselio Hanson and even on some of his completions (a crossing pattern to Julian Edelman) he threw inaccurately.

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They misidentified Stallworth as Branch.


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And there was this from Yates:

A personal foul penalty on the Eagles negated the turnover, but Patriots quarterback Ryan Mallett was guilty of throwing one would-be interception against the Eagles, when Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie stepped in front of a throw intended for Donte' Stallworth. Mallett dropped back and seemed to progress through his read quickly, eventually landing on Stallworth and forcing the throw towards the sideline. The good on this play by Mallett was his willingness to stand in the pocket and take a hit (something he showed throughout the night). The bad was locking in a wideout and not putting the football where only his receiver could make a play.

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MoLewisrocks said:

I think Bill was banking on some hype inducing spin from the guy who loves all players, especially QB's. Unfortunately most of it went to Foles and Reid.

I think Hoyer struggled with the hand he was dealt as Brady would have. Thing is is doesn't make the bad decision or throw as often as Mallett. He's more advanced in the system and his WR's not named Branch simply couldn't keep up. Mallett spends more time with end of the roster receivers. Mallett might well be a decent fit on a more vertical less risk aversive offense. But you nailed it on the difference in natural fluidity between he and Foles. That's the knock on many of the too tall QB's. Would have been hard to focus on a vertical game last night between the OL and the only option being an uncompetitive target in Stallworth. Both QB's reach him deep more than once for naught. Would have been the same deal for Brady. But at the end of the day that is not going to be this teams bread and butter in the forseeable future anyway.

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Sorry, Mo, I have to disagree with your assessment of Hoyer. Last night, he pulled his best Drew "Cement Feet" Bledsoe Impersonation. His movement in the pocket was horrible. His passes were poor, at best. He had several open receivers and just flat out missed them. And it wasn't the receivers fault. I mean, when you call a screen and you throw the ball 5 feet in front of the receiver it's YOUR fault. Not the receiver's. Especially when the receiver had all 3 blockers running with him.

It was a bad game for him. nothing more. Nothing less.

JackBauer said:

Indeed. I don't see us keeping either Harrison or Forston or Brace, especially after last night.

Forston I can see on the PS.

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Brace played extremely well last night. What issues did you see with him?

DaBruinz said:

I don't think it is unfair in the least bit. Him being out there was BB giving him a chance to help himself earn a spot on the roster. That muffed punt led directly to 7 points and a momentum shift that the Pats never recovered from.

The special teams tackle was good, but it doesn't outweigh the muffed punt. Sorry.

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Oh no, not a pre-season momentum shift that we never recovered from...anything but that!

The guy weighs nearly 225 pounds and has doubled as our full back. No one should be surprised that he can't return punts, and he'll never be asked to do it in the regular season. Even if he could catch the punts, he's nowhere near shifty enough to be effective in that role. On the other hand, the fact that he can contribute on special teams coverage bodes well because it is the type of role your backup RB/FB will be asked of in the real games.

Bolden played his role fine last night, running hard and contributing on special teams coverage. What he didn't do is show us he can be a 5th string punt returner. Pretty sure we can live without that, and that it doesn't have a big impact on Bolden's odds of making the roster.

DaBruinz said:

Brace played extremely well last night. What issues did you see with him?

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Sorry, I mean't OVER Brace, not or Brace. I think he sticks on the final roster.

LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks said:

Oh no, not a pre-season momentum shift that we never recovered from...anything but that!

The guy weighs nearly 225 pounds and has doubled as our full back. No one should be surprised that he can't return punts, and he'll never be asked to do it in the regular season. Even if he could catch the punts, he's nowhere near shifty enough to be effective in that role. On the other hand, the fact that he can contribute on special teams coverage bodes well because it is the type of role your backup RB/FB will be asked of in the real games.

Bolden played his role fine last night, running hard and contributing on special teams coverage. What he didn't do is show us he can be a 5th string punt returner. Pretty sure we can live without that, and that it doesn't have a big impact on Bolden's odds of making the roster.

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If he weight 235 or 245, he might be doubling as a FB. At 225, he' just a 2nd RB on the field. He left a lot to be desired in terms of blocking last night. As did Kettani.

At best, Bolden is bound for the PS, imho. I don't see him getting a lot of time with the 1st teamers on Friday and I doubt he'll do enough in the final game to warrant a roster spot.

BTW, one thing you totally ignored with regards to the punt return attempt is a lack of field awareness by Bolden. He should have been calling for a fair catch with how close Boykin and the other Eagles guys were to him.

BTW, great excuses for just bad play, outright.. Keep it coming..

DaBruinz said:

If he weight 235 or 245, he might be doubling as a FB. At 225, he' just a 2nd RB on the field. He left a lot to be desired in terms of blocking last night. As did Kettani.

At best, Bolden is bound for the PS, imho. I don't see him getting a lot of time with the 1st teamers on Friday and I doubt he'll do enough in the final game to warrant a roster spot.

BTW, one thing you totally ignored with regards to the punt return attempt is a lack of field awareness by Bolden. He should have been calling for a fair catch with how close Boykin and the other Eagles guys were to him.

BTW, great excuses for just bad play, outright.. Keep it coming..

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Never touted his blocking or claimed he was a legit full back. The point was to illustrate how out of his element he was returning that punt. This is a power back that they've even put at FB at times in camp, show me the amount of punt returners that come from that skill set in NFL.

I ignored it because I couldn't careless about it. Brandon Bolden isn't going to return punts, it's not in his skill set and we have a bunch of guys ahead of him on the depth chart there. I fully admit that Brandon Bolden sucks at returning punts and didn't defend his ability as a punt returner at all.

My only point is that I don't think it impacts his likelihood of making the roster because who thought Brandon Bolden would be a decent punt returner to begin with? Bolden was never making this team based on what he could do as a punt returner. Like I said, even if he caught the ball there, he still doesn't have the skill set to be effective in that role.

I have no reason to make excuses for the guy, I don't even like him and was annoyed to see him playing ahead of Vereen the first game. To me, the guy is a mediocre talent and while I could see keeping him since we have zero power backs behind Ridley and we aren't sure what kind of a load Ridley can handle, I also wouldn't shed a tear if we cut him. I just don't view him sucking as a punt returner as a big deal because I already knew he sucked as a punt returner based on his skill set, and we have a bunch of guys ahead of him on the depth chart there.

eagle eye said:

It was only one throw so it is unimportant. If he made a huge one down the sidelines that went all the way that doesn't make him a great QB just as one bad int is unimportant. He made a lot of good throws and good decisions last night.
No.12 has made some awful throws in his career but he consistently makes a lot of excellent throws so we don't bother about the odd horrendous throw/game and his decision making.

Last night Mallett was,

very cool in the pocket last night = improvement
was able to evade the consistent primary pass rush most of the time = improvement
had good footwork = improvement
made good decisions most of the time = improvement

And how on earth can you say he was holding onto the ball too long when the pressure was in his face instantly almost always last night?

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It was more than one throw, as many people have noted. As for the rest, there's no sense trying to discuss this with someone who is as clearly biased on the topic as you are.

DaBruinz said:

Sorry, Mo, I have to disagree with your assessment of Hoyer. Last night, he pulled his best Drew "Cement Feet" Bledsoe Impersonation. His movement in the pocket was horrible. His passes were poor, at best. He had several open receivers and just flat out missed them. And it wasn't the receivers fault. I mean, when you call a screen and you throw the ball 5 feet in front of the receiver it's YOUR fault. Not the receiver's. Especially when the receiver had all 3 blockers running with him.

It was a bad game for him. nothing more. Nothing less.

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You need to take the BB course in assessing performance. He gave a synopsis on it in his presser the other day.

Down: Fanene

Fencer said:

Down: Fanene

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and out! Ten characters

DaBruinz said:

Based on what? How about more of an explanation instead of just saying "Cause I said so".

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Is zero passes defensed by Moore eough for you?

QB12 said:

Is zero passes defensed by Moore eough for you?

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I don't want to make this too much of a thing, QB12, but NO..."zero passes defended" is not enough for me, and it likely won't be enough for most of us.

As DaBruinz pointed out, there were only 3 attempts his way all night, and as others have pointed out he seemed to look pretty decent in the first game.

I think you may be grasping at straws on this one, but like I said--everyone sees things differently.

supafly said:

I don't want to make this too much of a thing, QB12, but NO..."zero passes defended" is not enough for me, and it likely won't be enough for most of us.

As DaBruinz pointed out, there were only 3 attempts his way all night, and as others have pointed out he seemed to look pretty decent in the first game.

I think you may be grasping at straws on this one, but like I said--everyone sees things differently.

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3 his way. He looked bad on at least 1. I don't see how rating his as "down" should be in any way controversial.

Deus Irae said:

It was more than one throw, as many people have noted. As for the rest, there's no sense trying to discuss this with someone who is as clearly biased on the topic as you are.

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I'm biased now?

What makes you think that? I'm open to discussion as long as its rational and sensible.

I seen huge improvement in Mallett last night. If you didn't see that then there is no use continuing this conversation because you don't know what you are looking at.

You always take out a couple from the top and bottom when you are evaluating a QB. Two bad throws can happen to anybody on any night, same as two excellent ones. You take out those and then have a look at the rest and in every department last night Mallett was much better than we've seen before.

eagle eye said:

I'm biased now?

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You claimed that he only made one bad throw. That's either bias, ignorance (from lack of watching or lack of paying sufficient attention) or inability to discern good and bad. I assumed bias. My apologies if I was incorrect.

eagle eye said:

What makes you think that? I'm open to discussion as long as its rational and sensible. I seen huge improvement in Mallett last night. If you didn't see that then there is no use continuing this conversation because you don't know what you are looking at.

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This is frequently not the case, and your bias here, followed by the "huge improvement" comment, seems to indicate that this is another time when you will not be open to much of anything.

Furthermore, given that the media has come much closer to my position than to yours, and given my past history in terms of getting Patriots QBs right (Cassel, Gutierrez, O'Connell), it doesn't make sense for you to be claiming that I don't know what I'm looking at. I clearly have shown at least some modicum of ability to spot what BB is looking for in his QBs.

eagle eye said:

You always take out a couple from the top and bottom when you are evaluating a QB. Two bad throws can happen to anybody on any night, same as two excellent ones. You take out those and then have a look at the rest and in every department last night Mallett was much better than we've seen before.

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No, you don't.

To me we used screen's way too much. I love that we are getting back to the screen games more but we went with overkill. It was being read all night after the first quarter by them.

The OL as a unit is poor I hope we have an improvement too it soon it's where most of our issue's start on O. No run game no time to pass. Mankins and Vollmer will give instant change we need a RG if Waters doesn't return, maybe it can be cannon but we need to see him do it.

Stallworth seems bigger than I recall but also lost a step or 3 and thats all he really done.

Branch showed he can still run all the route's and use his moves to get open on the outside similar to what Welker does on the inside.

Ebert looked decent.

Ebner is certainly progressing since he was a ST only guy.

Mallet Vs Hoyer I am not sure who will win out that battle yet I think Hoyer has a slight edge right now. However long term I think Mallet will become the better QB.

Sterling Moore Looked ok nothing special but he has big play potential and was around the play lots of times beaten by one of the best WR on a deep play but most DB's would be. I am happy with him as DB 4. Moore kept jackson infront of him and was not beat deep as jackson get in a yard or 2 behind him.

The Eagle's also had a bunch of starters in in the 3rd quarter beat us by 10 and got TD of a muffed punt from a guy who will not be returning BB just wanted to test guys. and one TD from a short field due to poor OL so the loss is nowhere near as bad as people are trying to make out. If we don't improve OL I will be worried however when it has improved and we have starters in I think we will be very strong.

Deus Irae said:

You claimed that he only made one bad throw. That's either bias, ignorance (from lack of watching or lack of paying sufficient attention) or inability to discern good and bad. I assumed bias. My apologies if I was incorrect.

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I never claimed(or meant to claim) that he made only one bad throw. You were pointing out the int(that wasn't) as the be all and end all. Thats simply not the case. Of course he had some poor throws and I don't know of a QB that hasn't.

Deus Irae said:

This is frequently not the case, and your bias here, followed by the "huge improvement" comment, seems to indicate that this is another time when you will not be open to much of anything.

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There was huge improvement in the areas I talked about which was poise in the pocket, evading the primary pass rush and checking down well.

Deus Irae said:

Furthermore, given that the media has come much closer to my position than to yours, and given my past history in terms of getting Patriots QBs right (Cassel, Gutierrez, O'Connell), it doesn't make sense for you to be claiming that I don't know what I'm looking at. I clearly have shown at least some modicum of ability to spot what BB is looking for in his QBs.

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Wow you are now gloating about calling a couple of QBs. Thats past history and bears no relevance. Anybody can be lucky over such a small sample size.

Who is backing your side in the media? Which former QB or QB coach is backing what you say?