Who's Up and Who's Down after the Eagles game

[MoLewisrocks]

And what do you do next year when Hoyer leaves next year and Brady is 36?

Same thing you did after 2008, bring in competition and let them sort it out even as Brady was returning from an ACL. Mallett will clearly have a leg up, but he best not rest on it as KOC did. Because that 3rd rounder got passed by an UDFA. The media will annoint him the #2 by default, Bill doesn't generally annoint anyone.

And now that there are 90 man rosters which didn't exist in 2009 Bill can also scout around for guys he may have had interest in who aren't getting a shot or haven't caught on in another system. McElroy would be one but the JETS may be unable to part with him even though they won't give him a chance.

 

[Gwedd]

Re: Who's Up and Who's Down

The Bronx is up

The Battery's down.

:rocker:

It had to be said.......

 

[Gwedd]

Same thing you did after 2008, bring in competition and let them sort it out even as Brady was returning from an ACL. Mallett will clearly have a leg up, but he best not rest on it as KOC did. Because that 3rd rounder got passed by an UDFA. The media will annoint him the #2 by default, Bill doesn't generally annoint anyone.

And now that there are 90 man rosters which didn't exist in 2009 Bill can also scout around for guys he may have had interest in who aren't getting a shot or haven't caught on in another system. McElroy would be one but the JETS may be unable to part with him even though they won't give him a chance.

Concur. I'll actually be a little surprised if Hoyer isn't traded before the season starts. He's got a clock ticking on him age and ability wise and there's only so much time left to cash in on his value. That doesn't mean he isn't useful here as a backup, but if he's gonna be used as a chip, sooner is better than later at this stage of his career.

 

[IllegalContact]

Up - BJGE...

BJGE is hurt

 

[IllegalContact]

not enough kudos for carpenter. he will be more than capable replacement for fletcher. he played well last night.

fortson and harrison got pushed around by eagle scrubs.

the biggest 'down' to me right now is fanene

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I also think the Brandon Bolden in the down category is unfair. So he muffed a punt when he'll never, ever see that role during the regular season. I'd say his great tackle on special teams in a role he'll actually play outweighed that as well as some hard, physical running, which is all you can really ask for with no holes being opened in the run game.

Agreed with this. I actually thought Bolden looked the best out of the RB's tonight. He had one bad run, the play that got blown up and instead of just salvaging the play tried to dance and lost even more yards, that play was probably worse than the muff which like you I didn't put much thought into. But otherwise ran well. We'll never need him to return a punt. I was happy with all the backs considering what they had to work with.

Good nights for Branch, Ebner, and Ghost. I think Ghost's leg is finally full strength again post injury in 2010 and he'll prove to be worth that contract the next couple seasons. Hard to really knock anyone but the OL and Stallworth. Bequette's roughing penalty didn't look as bad to me as most, he was far away but hustled to make the QB feel his presense, I didn't feel like it was that late. If Cunningham and Brace become solid contributors, I'm even more excited about this defense.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Late to the party and most have already been said, but I'll try to stick to ones that haven't been mentioned much.

Risers:
Brian Waters - Its clear we need him more now then ever. Whatever it takes, get him back in camp.

Cunningham - Has been said, but deserves another mention. For the first time, he looked like what we thought he should.

RB's - All looked pretty pedestrian last night.

Edelmen - So much for the "Demps to push Edelmen off the team. In his limited action, he looked very solid. He is as much of a lock to make this team as Welker is IMO.

Fallers:
Besides all of the ones already mentioned: Stallworth, Cannon, Solder, etc....

Hoyer - Not that he was awful, but he CLEARLY did not look comfortable. I thought Mallet looked way more comfortable tonight.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Concur. I'll actually be a little surprised if Hoyer isn't traded before the season starts. He's got a clock ticking on him age and ability wise and there's only so much time left to cash in on his value. That doesn't mean he isn't useful here as a backup, but if he's gonna be used as a chip, sooner is better than later at this stage of his career.

Prepare to be surprised. Hoyer is still the #2 and Mallett is still a work in progress. There is a value in what Hoyer provides that exceeds any minimal trade value. He doesn't have to be a chip. A 4 year backup QB UDFA at $3M total is more value than most teams dream of. Bill's done well value wise in the backup QB market by and large due to Cassel and Hoyer covering the last 8 seasons - save a few wasted mid round draft picks (Rohan and KOC). If those guys don't provide backup value or chip value then you miscalculated. KOC was a miscalculation. As was Rohan (although he was more a mistake you got away with). Whether Mallett was remains to be seen over the next year or two.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Exactly the opposite is true. He had all that time to break up the pass and didn't.

Sterling Moore will be CB 4 or 5.

You do realize that Desean Jackson is a top 5 NFL verticle threat?

When the situation arises where the 4th/5th best WR on an NFL team is a Desean Jackson AND zero safety help is provided...will be time to worry.

It's unbelievable what some of you come up with.

 

[JackBauer]

Indeed. I don't see us keeping either Harrison or Forston or Brace, especially after last night.

Forston I can see on the PS.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

So Chung got injured again?

EDIT: I just heard about it. I find it hard to believe the Pats will offer him a new contract at this point. The guy spends more time on the sidelines than on the field. I don't know if there's been a more frustrating player to me in recent memory. He shows all the flashes but can't stay on the da*m field.

He needs some tips from my man Ihedigbo on how to get your shoulder injured, come out for a play or 2, and then get back in and continue...to fail to cover anyone.

 

[IllegalContact]

Prepare to be surprised. Hoyer is still the #2 and Mallett is still a work in progress. There is a value in what Hoyer provides that exceeds any minimal trade value. He doesn't have to be a chip. A 4 year backup QB UDFA at $3M total is more value than most teams dream of. Bill's done well value wise in the backup QB market by and large due to Cassel and Hoyer covering the last 8 seasons - save a few wasted mid round draft picks (Rohan and KOC). If those guys don't provide backup value or chip value then you miscalculated. KOC was a miscalculation. As was Rohan (although he was more a mistake you got away with). Whether Mallett was remains to be seen over the next year or two.

I agree that neither QB is going anywhere....there's no point to it. should anything happen to brady, they'll still need 2 of them

 

[PatsFan2]

Marcus Cannon is a nice story and it was against a Very Fast! Eagles Defense...But i dion't want to EVER see him at Right Tackle again.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is bad because its results based analysis.

Mallett last night was calm in the pocket and avoided the primary pass rush(which was getting through a lot) most of the time. He showed a lot of poise in the pocket, he had good footwork too. He was able to checkdown under pressure. He threw a real bad ball but thats not hugely important and he sure can improve a lot more but he showed real promise last night.

The INT that wasn't is unimportant when evaluating his performance last night because its only one ball.

Overall he showed a lot more last night than we've seen from him since he joined the Patriots.

It's not results-based analysis. It's process-based analysis. Mallet's still processing everything too slowly, still takes too long to get the ball out, and is still making bad decisions. And the notion that the INT in unimportant is ridiculous. It was the product of a terrible decision.

 

[aluminum seats]

I saw a lot of anti-Solder stuff on twitter when I thought he was having a respectable (not great or bad) game. So I went back and watched the first half play by play to see what I missed and he was even better than I thought he was. I'd call him solid to good tonight, particularly given the quality of competition he faced.

He was going up against an elite pass rusher in Cole and more than held his own. I think it's probably a case of people overreacting to the play he got blown up by Cole (and Cole still didn't really get major pressure as he fell down himself). I thought it was a nice bounce back performance for him after a brutal 1st game.

I think the issue w/Solder right now is partly perception, too. As a rookie, he was thrown into the mix more than originally planned (which of course happens a lot because of injuries) and performed well. Then he reportedly did a good job of bulking up this off-season, and seemed to come into camp with a Mankins-like nasty streak (eg, going after Spikes.) So I think the thought was, now he's a stud!

But the reality is that he is a good, young player, playing in the preseason of his second year. In that light, of course we'll see some struggles, but I also think we'll see steady improvement. And when he's lined up w/Mankins again, his confidence & comfort level is bound to be that much greater. He'll be fine.

 

[eagle eye]

It's not results-based analysis. It's process-based analysis. Mallet's still processing everything too slowly, still takes too long to get the ball out, and is still making bad decisions. And the notion that the INT in unimportant is ridiculous. It was the product of a terrible decision.

It's not results-based analysis. It's process-based analysis. Mallet's still processing everything too slowly, still takes too long to get the ball out, and is still making bad decisions. And the notion that the INT in unimportant is ridiculous. It was the product of a terrible decision.

It was only one throw so it is unimportant. If he made a huge one down the sidelines that went all the way that doesn't make him a great QB just as one bad int is unimportant. He made a lot of good throws and good decisions last night.
No.12 has made some awful throws in his career but he consistently makes a lot of excellent throws so we don't bother about the odd horrendous throw/game and his decision making.

Last night Mallett was,

very cool in the pocket last night = improvement
was able to evade the consistent primary pass rush most of the time = improvement
had good footwork = improvement
made good decisions most of the time = improvement

And how on earth can you say he was holding onto the ball too long when the pressure was in his face instantly almost always last night?

 

[DaBruinz]

To my eyes, Moore has regressed.

Based on what? How about more of an explanation instead of just saying "Cause I said so".

 

[DaBruinz]

Good days (various levels and reasons):

Ebner
Gostkowski
Branch
Cunningham

Bad days (various levels and reasons):
Pretty much the entire OL group
Hoyer
Bolden
Vereen
Woodhead
Stallworth
Moore
Rivera

I'm sure I could +/- others, but that seems like a good place to start. Also, Silvestro gets props for the TD, but I didn't pay much attention to him overall, so I can't slot him.

Not sure how Vereen and Woodhead had bad days.. Ridley had a bad day.. Bolden definitely did.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's my point. That was last season not this preseason. Name a play like that this preseason.

Well, How about the fact that the men he was in charge of covering only had 3 passes all night long? Doesn't that count for anything at all? Or are you just worried about STATS? There ARE things that don't show up in the STATS sheets you know.

 

[DaBruinz]

I also think the Brandon Bolden in the down category is unfair. So he muffed a punt when he'll never, ever see that role during the regular season. I'd say his great tackle on special teams in a role he'll actually play outweighed that as well as some hard, physical running, which is all you can really ask for with no holes being opened in the run game.

I don't think it is unfair in the least bit. Him being out there was BB giving him a chance to help himself earn a spot on the roster. That muffed punt led directly to 7 points and a momentum shift that the Pats never recovered from.

The special teams tackle was good, but it doesn't outweigh the muffed punt. Sorry.