Reiss: Chad Jackson released

[emoney_33]

Because without our $$ from tickets, concessions, parking, merchandise, etc. the HC of the NEP would be SOL. The least he could do is be a little more forthcoming, esp. about injuries, so that the fanbase could enjoy a little peace of colective mind.

So it's not enough for the fans that he has brought 3 championships?

Would you rather 0 championships and your coach to be forthcoming?

Or do you still expect something/someone perfect in your eyes that gives you every last thing that you WANT?

 

[Patjew]

Wait a second, hold the phone; did Chad Jackson get cut?? I had not heard this.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Wait a second, hold the phone; did Chad Jackson get cut?? I had not heard this.

is it true?????
i had to go through 30 pages to find a simple post saying he's cut

was he a bust? lets ask 'pats67' and 'Deus Irae'.:disagreement:

 

[Deus Irae]

You know Deus, what you are essentially saying is that your opinion about the relative value of players to the Patriots is significantly better than that of Belichick such that that you feel supremely confident in saying that Belichick made a mistake. (mistakes mistakes mistakes .....)

I am especially impressed with your expertise, especially since you have no way in the slightest to know what routes the receivers are supposed to run much less what optional route changes they are supposed to make as a result of on the field defensive keys. And, not only that, unless you have a different TV feed than I have, you can't even see more than 5% of what the receivers are doing in the totality of plays (and it's probably not even close to 5%).

As I say, very impressive.

No Arellbee, I'm not 'essentially' saying anything. I'm specifically saying that I didn't agree with the move because I think Jackson should have gotten the season to prove himself rather than being cut prior to players like CJ Jones. This is a message board, and I'm entitled to such opinions. If you want to be nothing but a drone, that's your choice. However, the last time I checked, sports message boards were designed to discuss the issues related to, you know, sports. This is a Patriots message board. When it becomes the Patriots' PR web site, I'll stop evaluating and questioning what I see and hear. Until then, I'll bring positive opinions when I think positive things have been done, and negative opinions when I think negative things have been done. I don't claim to be better at this than Belichick, but sometimes amateurs notice mistakes made by experts.

Oh, and the irony of posts such as yours is that by casting Jackson away, Belichick is conceding that Jackson was either a mistaken draft pick (and one traded up for, at that) for the Patriots or a player who's game was ruined by injury. Now, if it's due to injury, then keeping him on instead of some 53rd player would have caused no significant harm, and would have allowed time to see how he bounced back over the year. And, if it's because it was a mistake, it pretty much kills the point of your post.

 

[Joker]

I listened to BB's entire appearance on the Big Show this afternoon...Buckley asked him very pointedly about this specific question and I came away feeling that BB thought Jackson didn't fit their plans...which is another way of saying the organization made a mistake drafting him...BB didn't say he was bad player or that he couldn't play in the NFL...quite to the contrary, but he did say he didn't fit THEIR plans for the WR position going forward...that's as close to admitting he was a mistake as BB is going to admit IMO

 

[GuyClinch]

Like alot of fans I immediately thought of Bethel Johnson when this guy was failing to produce.. I would spout I told you so but I learned from the Bethel Johnson thing.. So I can't really claim any great insight.

Some I would like to add...

1) Being healthy in the NFL is part of the job. If you can't stay healthy that's going to hurt your stock especially when your starting out.

2) Teams are generally respectable at evaulating talent once they have had a guy in their system for several years. they get to see this player in practice and in team meetings and so on. So while a team might miss on a draft pick it's REALLY unlikely that he goes on to be a star in the NFL. Sorry.

3) Bethel Johnson = Kedrick Brown. Gerald Green = Chad Jackson.. It's kinda uncanny. I think GMs can get sucked in by physical talent. BB is no exception.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

This move should not be a surprise to those folkls reading the training camp reports posted here. Jackson's problem was that he failed to show that he was any better than CJ Jones, Ventrone and various JAG wideouts in training camp. He also proved to be a QB killer, causing INTs to Cassel and Gutz. Had he distinguised himself as an ST performer, he'd still be with the club. He didn't.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No Arellbee, I'm not 'essentially' saying anything. I'm specifically saying that I didn't agree with the move because I think Jackson should have gotten the season to prove himself rather than being cut prior to players like CJ Jones. This is a message board, and I'm entitled to such opinions. If you want to be nothing but a drone, that's your choice. However, the last time I checked, sports message boards were designed to discuss the issues related to, you know, sports. This is a Patriots message board. When it becomes the Patriots' PR web site, I'll stop evaluating and questioning what I see and hear. Until then, I'll bring positive opinions when I think positive things have been done, and negative opinions when I think negative things have been done. I don't claim to be better at this than Belichick, but sometimes amateurs notice mistakes made by experts.

Oh, and the irony of posts such as yours is that by casting Jackson away, Belichick is conceding that Jackson was either a mistaken draft pick (and one traded up for, at that) for the Patriots or a player who's game was ruined by injury. Now, if it's due to injury, then keeping him on instead of some 53rd player would have caused no significant harm, and would have allowed time to see how he bounced back over the year. And, if it's because it was a mistake, it pretty much kills the point of your post.

What you are failing to account for is BB made the best decision for the 2008 team, and likely for the ones that follow. Chad wasn't going to get it, they had determined over the course of 3 seasons that he simply couldn't, so he would never fill the only roles available to him on this roster. This wasn't about being injured. It was about having a capacity to multi task and grasp concepts quickly and translate that into a role that might provide opportunities for performance on the field in the regular season. I know he scored 3 TD's this preseason. But he wasn't going to have a chance to do that (showcase his athletic prowess against third stringers working with improvisational QB's) come Sunday. Same reason Gutz third string production didn't trump Cassel's unflappable management of the first and second string performers he was given vs. first string D's. He couldn't even handle returns because that represented mentally multi tracking. He's a one trick pony. May succeed in a one trick offense as an outside threat, statistically anyway, but he was never gonna make it here.

Bill has always been intrigued by talent, what HC isn't? But he never risks a first, just rolls the dice sometimes with a second to see if he can uncover untapped versatility in measurably more elite physical talent.

You live a thousand miles away. Remember the old adage, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. When you start sitting in on post game and post practice film breakdowns with Bill, then pointing out mistakes he's making would only be tempered by your own level of expertise vs. this HC's. Right now given your lack of access, it's borderline unmitigated hubris.

 

[Deus Irae]

What you are failing to account for is BB made the best decision for the 2008 team, and likely for the ones that follow. Chad wasn't going to get it, they had determined over the course of 3 seasons that he simply couldn't, so he would never fill the only roles available to him on this roster. This wasn't about being injured. It was about having a capacity to multi task and grasp concepts quickly and translate that into a role that might provide opportunities for performance on the field in the regular season. I know he scored 3 TD's this preseason. But he wasn't going to have a chance to do that (showcase his athletic prowess against third stringers working with improvisational QB's) come Sunday. Same reason Gutz third string production didn't trump Cassel's unflappable management of the first and second string performers he was given vs. first string D's. He couldn't even handle returns because that represented mentally multi tracking. He's a one trick pony. May succeed in a one trick offense as an outside threat, statistically anyway, but he was never gonna make it here.

Again.... 23; still waiting on his first chance to have an offseason, training camp and regular season all together for the same team; coming off ACL surgery; possessing all the needed physical tools (unless he lacks first step 'explosion').

Look, I've never been enamored with him, although I've loved his potential (for some reasons why, read my posts regarding Gholston and the physically 'maxed out'). I've actually always called him "Chazzzz" when talking about him with my friends, because he always seemed to me to be out of place in New England (Ok, also because I'm not a Gator fan). However, I simply believe that 1st & 2nd round picks should be given every possible chance before being cut loose. There are some great bridges in the desert I'd be happy to sell to those people who think Jackson got 'every possible chance'.

I also know, from playing, coaching, and watching, and from speaking with those who do all the above, that there are players who simply don't 'get it' until they get the opportunity to apply everything in real games.

Bill has always been intrigued by talent, what HC isn't? But he never risks a first, just rolls the dice sometimes with a second to see if he can uncover untapped versatility in measurably more elite physical talent.

All picks are risks, including firsts. The Patriots drafting is at the top of the pile, along with the Colts and Chargers, which is why they hit on a higher percentage of players. They all still make mistakes. That's an issue that should never have to be mentioned, since it's universal.

You live a thousand miles away. Remember the old adage, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. When you start sitting in on post game and post practice film breakdowns with Bill, then pointing out mistakes he's making would only be tempered by your own level of expertise vs. this HC's. Right now given your lack of access, it's borderline unmitigated hubris.

No, it's message board opining. When it comes to press conferences, I barely believe BB when he tells us his team played a game, never mind anything else. He does his very best to say absolutely nothing. He considers that to be part of his job. Right now, I'm more likely to believe a post by FLY ON THE WALL than I am to believe commentary coming out of Foxborough

That being said, physical access has little or nothing to do with it in this age of computers and the internet. I'm 1000 miles a way (closer to 1500, actually), but I thought Cassel was more likely to make the team than Gut, whereas many of the multitudes who live far closer got that wrong. You were on board with that. Were we both displaying hubris then?

 

[mb6592]

Yes, you're being disingenuous. You've all but stated that Belichick was either stupid or a liar with those comments, even though any honest person would acknowledge that they were of the ultra-cliched "he was a good guy and he did a good job and he worked hard and it just didn't work out," which is what professionals do when they're asked these questions.

Of course you're right (and he thinks he's so clever - good gosh).

 

[Patjew]

I wonder how long this thread will stay on the first page?

(Also, being well-written and argumentative is not the same as being correct. Believe me, I know.)

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

It could be a Stalworth type of situation. Stalworth is a good receiver, but he doesn't fit our system. Jackson, probably, is a good receiver, (or has the potential to be one), yet, he doesn't fit the system. A good WR in the wrong system is a poor WR. A mediocre WR in the right system (Reche anyone?) is a passable WR. Gaffney was a 2nd round pick also, and we picked him up as a street FA. Now, he seems to be in a system where he can play up to his potential.

 

[Deus Irae]

I wonder how long this thread will stay on the first page?

(Also, being well-written and argumentative is not the same as being correct. Believe me, I know.)

Well, it's a good way to kill time until the next story comes up. With the season about to begin, this will drift off as "Mayo's first game" type threads begin to pop up.

As for well-written, etc.... we're all wrong sometimes.

 

[mb6592]

No Arellbee, I'm not 'essentially' saying anything. I'm specifically saying that I didn't agree with the move because I think Jackson should have gotten the season to prove himself rather than being cut prior to players like CJ Jones. This is a message board, and I'm entitled to such opinions. If you want to be nothing but a drone, that's your choice. However, the last time I checked, sports message boards were designed to discuss the issues related to, you know, sports. This is a Patriots message board. When it becomes the Patriots' PR web site, I'll stop evaluating and questioning what I see and hear. Until then, I'll bring positive opinions when I think positive things have been done, and negative opinions when I think negative things have been done. I don't claim to be better at this than Belichick, but sometimes amateurs notice mistakes made by experts.

Oh, and the irony of posts such as yours is that by casting Jackson away, Belichick is conceding that Jackson was either a mistaken draft pick (and one traded up for, at that) for the Patriots or a player who's game was ruined by injury. Now, if it's due to injury, then keeping him on instead of some 53rd player would have caused no significant harm, and would have allowed time to see how he bounced back over the year. And, if it's because it was a mistake, it pretty much kills the point of your post.

Of course, you have every right to your opinion. Criticize away (1000 miles from DAILY CAMP PRACTICES). But, we also have the right to point out how foolish you are being. And, by the way, there is no irony between Belichick not being 100% accurate on his draft picks and the cutting of Jackon. We're not saying Belichick doesn't make mistakes, we're saying he didn't make a mistake by cutting Jackson. Irony is someone who is not privy to the inner workings of the team (including the DAILY CAMP PRACTICES) and clinging to the belief that Jackson didn't receive a fair shake.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Again.... 23; still waiting on his first chance to have an offseason, training camp and regular season all together for the same team; coming off ACL surgery; possessing all the needed physical tools (unless he lacks first step 'explosion').

Look, I've never been enamored with him, although I've loved his potential (for some reasons why, read my posts regarding Gholston and the physically 'maxed out'). I've actually always called him "Chazzzz" when talking about him with my friends, because he always seemed to me to be out of place in New England (Ok, also because I'm not a Gator fan). However, I simply believe that 1st & 2nd round picks should be given every possible chance before being cut loose. There are some great bridges in the desert I'd be happy to sell to those people who think Jackson got 'every possible chance'.

I also know, from playing, coaching, and watching, and from speaking with those who do all the above, that there are players who simply don't 'get it' until they get the opportunity to apply everything in real games.



All picks are risks, including firsts. The Patriots drafting is at the top of the pile, along with the Colts and Chargers, which is why they hit on a higher percentage of players. They all still make mistakes. That's an issue that should never have to be mentioned, since it's universal.



No, it's message board opining. When it comes to press conferences, I barely believe BB when he tells us his team played a game, never mind anything else. He does his very best to say absolutely nothing. He considers that to be part of his job. Right now, I'm more likely to believe a post by FLY ON THE WALL than I am to believe commentary coming out of Foxborough

That being said, physical access has little or nothing to do with it in this age of computers and the internet. I'm 1000 miles a way (closer to 1500, actually), but I thought Cassel was more likely to make the team than Gut, whereas many of the multitudes who live far closer got that wrong. You were on board with that. Were we both displaying hubris then?

Nope, because unlike in this instance neither of us was saying BB would be making a stupid mistake if he went with Gut and I have never accused him of making a stupid mistake. (Except for the time I thought they were f-ing with Tommy's extension but they came to the same conclusion once he voiced displeasure with that process and that got a deal done PDQ...) I may disagree with his approach (to players, though I understand he is not willing to stroke guys because he wants self starters to whom winning and not stroking matters) and occasionally I'm right about reading misfits, but I take that for what it is, a good instinctive gut based guess. I'm wrong about those more often than he is right. I never thought he'd take on Moss...but I didn't pitch a fit when he did because I assumed he believed they could make that work. I approach this differently from some. I'm fascinated by what they've done and try to figure out how they do it and what that predisposes them to do going forward. I never delude myself into thinking I know more or better what to do than they do - which is kind of becoming a message board national passtime here... I still wish they could have taken an OL in the first, and if we had 2 they might have and I don't doubt on some level he wishes he did. But it's not like they wasted that pick on a WR... we needed a ILB and he apparently finally identified one who could play here and was draftable because they had doubled up on firsts and he seems to be working out.

The part that Chad is missing is not something you can develop. You can refine it and build on it but if you don't have it to begin with you will never get it. Don't need it in all systems, but it's mandatory here. Guys with a lot less talent or physical tools who have IT will almost always trump guys who don't have IT here. Just ask Drew.

PS Bill also said yesterday that where you are drafted should play no role in team building decisions. They cut a 4th rounder last season because they knew he couldn't make it here. they kept a 6th rounder on the roster as a 4th string QB in 2000 because for all the tools he lacked there was something about this kids makeup that intrigued them. That would be the nearly impossible to quantify or measure at distance IT.

PPS One more thing to keep in mind is on cutdown day, as opposed to draft day or the start of FA in March, the are not looking to field the most accumulated talent. They're looking to build a functional roster inhabited by guys who can help them even in limited fashion on the field. To do that you have to envision a role for them on it. Chad had none save as an alternate deep threat if he ran the right route. He could not cover multiple positions nor could he provide value on ST. The other CJ isn't nearly as talented, but he was way more versatile. Ditto Ventrone. And Washington, and probably a few others. That's how they make decisions here on cut down day.

 

[Deus Irae]

Of course, you have every right to your opinion. Criticize away (1000 miles from DAILY CAMP PRACTICES). But, we also have the right to point out how foolish you are being. And, by the way, there is no irony between Belichick not being 100% accurate on his draft picks and the cutting of Jackon. We're not saying Belichick doesn't make mistakes, we're saying he didn't make a mistake by cutting Jackson. Irony is someone who is not privy to the inner workings of the team (including the DAILY CAMP PRACTICES) and clinging to the belief that Jackson didn't received a fair shake.

Of course you are also entitled to your opinion. However, you should probably learn what 'irony' actually is, since your example is not actually an example of irony.

 

[mb6592]

No, it's message board opining. When it comes to press conferences, I barely believe BB when he tells us his team played a game, never mind anything else. He does his very best to say absolutely nothing. He considers that to be part of his job. Right now, I'm more likely to believe a post by FLY ON THE WALL than I am to believe commentary coming out of Foxborough

Then why did you post what Belichick said on WEEI and state, "either Belichick confused Jackson with Jones and cut the wrong guy by mistake, or he was lying his ass off"? What he says is the antithesis of news (as we all know), hence Pats67 accurately calling you out as disingenuous (do you know what that means?).

 

[Patslifer]

Then why did you post what Belichick said on WEEI and state, "either Belichick confused Jackson with Jones and cut the wrong guy by mistake, or he was lying his ass off"? What he says is the antithesis of news (as we all know), hence the Pats67 accurately calling you out as disingenuous (do you know what that means?).

True....Deus is in denial. Just cannot accept the fact that Jackson is not a good NFL player, and a total bust.

 

[mb6592]

Also, being well-written and argumentative is not the same as being correct. Believe me, I know.

or, more importantly, clever.

 

[RussFrancis]

Im just still dumbfounded at how they concluded Chad Jackson had zero value to this team whatsoever, yet an absolute SCRUB of a QB with only HS playing experience somehow maintains a job??? Its mindnumbing!