Breer on McDaniels

[Deus Irae]

I don't see the love affair with McDaniels at all. His Offensive game plan for the SuperBowl was awful. His in-game adjustments are slow to be made. His alleged creativity is just Charlie Weiss rip offs. And, although I know that the Pats passing O was record setting magic - I wonder how ridiculous it would have been with someone better than Josh running that show.

BB brought in Capers to help out Pees. And I suspect Brady himself helps out McDaniels. Anyway, here's a suggestion, Joshie. More screen passes to Maroney....thanks.

What is the game plan for "Our offensive line won't show up and our injured quarterback won't be able to move, so we've got to come up with plays that develop in less than 1 second with the opposition playing to defend screens."?

 

[Rob0729]

Go position by position with the Cowboys of the 90's for a start. You might find yourself surprised at how well the Patriots come off. Taking 1992, since that was the Cowboys' best record (13-3), and realizing the comparison isn't perfect because New England ran a base 3 wr set quite a bit:

Brady - Aikman
Moss - Irvin
Stallworth - Harper
Watson - Novacek
Light - Tuinei
Mankins - Newton
Koppen - Stepnoski
Neal - Gesek
Kaczur - Williams
Maroney - Smith
Welker - Johnston


Now, I must admit to a bias, but I've got New England winning with QB, all 3 receivers and 2 spots on the offensive line. I've got a 'tie' at 2 offensive line positions, and I've got Dallas winning at RB, TE and one OL position.

New England 6-2-3

Even dropping the two wins on the offensive line to 'tie', I still get New England with 4-4-3

Why would have Moose Johnston go up against Welker? Welker is a WR and Johnston was a FB. Until Welker shows more than one year, I will give the edge to Johnston if you are calling him a WR, but comparing the two is an unfair comparison since they play different positions. You shpuld be comparing Harper to Welker.

As of right now, Mankins is the only guy I see who is as good as about 3 or 4 of the Cowboys' o-line. Newton (6 pro bowls and 5 all pro), Williams (4 Pro Bowls and 3 All Pros), Stepnoski (5 Pro Bowls), and Tuinei (2 Pro Bowls and 2 All Pros) are arguably more talented than any of the Pats o-linemen other than potentially Mankins.

I guess I am wrong. I guess if you take the homerish view, you can argue last year's Patriots offense was more talented.

 

[ScottieC]

I'd have to go back and look which years of those teams were actually the most talented. I would say for the Cowboys it would be 1993 with Aikman, Irvin, Smith, Moose Johnston, Alvin Harper, Jay Novachek, Kevin Gogan, Erik Williams, Mark Stepnoski, Nate Newton, and Mark Tuenei. I don't know how even the most homerish Pats fan can say last year's Patriots offense had more talent from top to bottom than that offense. Three of those guys are in the Hall and you can argue for another 2 or 3 more from that list.

Well, In all fairness to the Homers, NONE of the 2007 team is in the Hall of Fame - But Two are a lock and we'll see how the rest fair - So a HOF comparison is not apples to apples - I would agree with Novachek, he's one of my favorite players of all time that's not a Patriot - The guy was like Welker, he was everywhere and caught everything thrown at him.

Anyway - I'm a Homer, but I'll take the Pats against that team any day. The argument is really Brady vs. Aikman (helllllo Brady is the runaway here, Aikman never threw over 27 TD's in a season - I think, I'm sure I'm close) and then Smith vs. LM (Obviously it's E. Smith, not even close) - However, Throw in Welker and Stallworth and now you have a problem with the Cowboys, and lets not forget Moss vs. Irvin (I think it's moss in a run away - Moss is constantly compared against Rice....not Michael.)

Fun stuff!

 

[Deus Irae]

Why would have Moose Johnston go up against Welker? Welker is a WR and Johnston was a FB. Until Welker shows more than one year, I will give the edge to Johnston if you are calling him a WR, but comparing the two is an unfair comparison since they play different positions. Johnston could be in the Hall if he did what he did at another position.

Welker was better last year than Johnston was in any year of his career. This isn't a lifetime achievement argument, it's a 2007 discussion.

As of right now, Mankins is the only guy I see who is as good as about 3 or 4 of the Cowboys' o-line. Newton, Williams, Stepnoski, and Tuinei are arguably more talented than any of the Pats o-linemen other than potentially Mankins.

Again, 2007 vs. 1992 was the comparison. Also, Koppen and Light are both better than Tuinei, although my second rating (4-4-3) calls Light/Tuinei a 'tie', Koppen is on a fair plane with Stepnoski and Williams is the one clear Cowboy win on the O-line.

I guess I am wrong. I guess if you take the homerish view, you can argue last year's Patriots offense was more talented.

A Homerish view isn't needed. The 2007 Patriots stack up just fine against the best (in terms of wins) Cowboys team of the 90's dynasty. Whether you go 6-2-3 or 4-4-3 as the final matchup, 2007 New England keeps up quite nicely with that squad.

 

[Rob0729]

Well, In all fairness to the Homers, NONE of the 2007 team is in the Hall of Fame - But Two are a lock and we'll see how the rest fair - So a HOF comparison is not apples to apples - I would agree with Novachek, he's one of my favorite players of all time that's not a Patriot - The guy was like Welker, he was everywhere and caught everything thrown at him.

Anyway - I'm a Homer, but I'll take the Pats against that team any day. The argument is really Brady vs. Aikman (helllllo Brady is the runaway here, Aikman never threw over 27 TD's in a season - I think, I'm sure I'm close) and then Smith vs. LM (Obviously it's E. Smith, not even close) - However, Throw in Welker and Stallworth and now you have a problem with the Cowboys, and lets not forget Moss vs. Irvin (I think it's moss in a run away - Moss is constantly compared against Rice....not Michael.)

Fun stuff!

I will agree that Brady and Moss are a lock. But that cancels out Aikman and Irvin (although you can make a strong argument that Moss and Brady are better at their respective positon). There is no one on the Pats' roster to cancel out Emmitt though. Nate Newton will almost certainly get into the Hall although being a guard it will take him time. Mankins looks like he could be a HOFer, but he isn't as good as Newton was yet. Stepnoski and Erik Williams have outside chances of getting to the Hall. I don't see any other Patriot with outside chance of getting to the Hall as of right now other than maybe Welker if he continues to produce like last year.

 

[Rob0729]

Welker was better last year than Johnston was in any year of his career. This isn't a lifetime achievement argument, it's a 2007 discussion.

Johnston was a spectacular FB and was arguably the best FB in the league in 1993 and 1994. From a pure talent standpoint, that makes Johnston better. Again, you are comparing Johnston to Welker as if they were both WRs and they weren't. Johnston was near the top if not the top of his position and Welker is not.

Again, 2007 vs. 1992 was the comparison. Also, Koppen and Light are both better than Tuinei, although my second rating (4-4-3) calls Light/Tuinei a 'tie', Koppen is on a fair plane with Stepnoski and Williams is the one clear Cowboy win on the O-line.

I would take Tuinei over Light. Light is an above average tackle. Tuinei was better than above average, but not in the great realm. Stepnoski was far better than you give him credit for. He was at the time a top 3 center. I would say Koppen was a top 5.

A Homerish view isn't needed. The 2007 Patriots stack up just fine against the best (in terms of wins) Cowboys team of the 90's dynasty. Whether you go 6-2-3 or 4-4-3 as the final matchup, 2007 New England keeps up quite nicely with that squad.

I would say from a pure talent standpoint from top to bottom of this roster, I would put this past year's Pats in the 10-15 range maybe. I am not trying to trash our players, but this offense didn't produce because of talent alone. It produced because players knew their roles and played smart with great coaching. There was defintely talent on this team, but it is really crazy to sugguest that this offense is as talented as many of the top offenses (many of which just won on talent alone despite coaching - see the late 90s Viking with Brian Billick as the OC).

 

[JoeSixPat]

Good article.For all the bashers, the reason he's the OC is the intelligence, intensity and focus he shares with Belichick and Brady.

Those that share what are apparently McDaniel's own views about areas of improvement shouldn't be viewed as McDaniel bashers.

Or are we saying that McDaniels is a McDaniels basher?

I think there are a lot of people who recognize that, just like th 2006 team that was the #6 offense in the NFL, there are ways in which the 2007 offense can improve as well.

This is a good sign as far as I'm concerned - an acknowledgment from the OC, unlike many fans, that the 2007 offense does have areas where it can improve.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I wonder if he really likes New England? Pioli stated is love for the area (and a nice pay raise) was a prime reason for staying.

Let's say he makes a few million and replaces BB in the future. That's not bad because Pioli is in his early 40's and he would work for the greatest owner in sports.

How many organizations that will need HC's are really worth working for? I can see someone in their 50's (Crennel) but if you were in your 30's would you want to work for Al Davis? The Cardinals? St Louis? Atlanta?

 

[Rob0729]

Those that share what are apparently McDaniel's own views about areas of improvement shouldn't be viewed as McDaniel bashers.

Or are we saying that McDaniels is a McDaniels basher?

I think there are a lot of people who recognize that, just like th 2006 team that was the #6 offense in the NFL, there are ways in which the 2007 offense can improve as well.

This is a good sign as far as I'm concerned - an acknowledgment from the OC, unlike many fans, that the 2007 offense does have areas where it can improve.

I don't think anyone said last year's offense was perfect and nothing needs to be improved upon. There is a difference between pointing out that there are areas of improvement and stating that McDaniels sucks and any OC could have done what McDaniels did last year with that offense.

I agree with much McDaniels' assessment. I also agree that it is a good thing that McDaniels recognizes areas of improvement.

As a strong McDaniels supporter, I have always said that he still has a bit to learn and grow as a an OC. I just don't see him as the incompetitent fool that some portray him who only makes adjustments when Belichick forces him to do so.

 

[Kontradiction]

The reason why some of you might think that there was more talent on the Pats' offense because of the year it had is at quarterback and wide receiver. You have in Tom Brady arguably the best to every play the position, and you have Randy Moss, the bonafide number two best player of all time at his position. With those two together and a strong supporting cast, the offense will be unstoppable. Aikman, IMO, doesn't hold a candle to Brady. That alone makes the Pats offense more talented since that is the most important position on the field.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Why would have Moose Johnston go up against Welker? Welker is a WR and Johnston was a FB. Until Welker shows more than one year, I will give the edge to Johnston if you are calling him a WR, but comparing the two is an unfair comparison since they play different positions. You shpuld be comparing Harper to Welker.

As of right now, Mankins is the only guy I see who is as good as about 3 or 4 of the Cowboys' o-line. Newton (6 pro bowls and 5 all pro), Williams (4 Pro Bowls and 3 All Pros), Stepnoski (5 Pro Bowls), and Tuinei (2 Pro Bowls and 2 All Pros) are arguably more talented than any of the Pats o-linemen other than potentially Mankins.

I guess I am wrong. I guess if you take the homerish view, you can argue last year's Patriots offense was more talented.

I see your point, but I would say the jury is still out as to what type of careers some of the current Patriots will churn out. Some of the guys on the OL are still young and maybe the best is yet to come!

 

[Deus Irae]

Johnston was a spectacular FB and was arguably the best FB in the league in 1993 and 1994. From a pure talent standpoint, that makes Johnston better. Again, you are comparing Johnston to Welker as if they were both WRs and they weren't. Johnston was near the top if not the top of his position and Welker is not.

I noted the difficulty of comparison because of the different base offenses being used. However, Welker led the league in receptions. His season was definitely the better season.

I would take Tuinei over Light. Light is an above average tackle. Tuinei was better than above average, but not in the great realm. Stepnoski was far better than you give him credit for. He was at the time a top 3 center. I would say Koppen was a top 5.

1.) Light was better than Tuinei. However, just to avoid argument, I still called it even in my second breakdown (4-4-3). As for Stepnoski, how did I belittle him? I rated him and Koppen as a "tie". You're calling top 3 vs. to 5. That's essentially a "tie". We're on the same plane there.

I would say from a pure talent standpoint from top to bottom of this roster, I would put this past year's Pats in the 10-15 range maybe. I am not trying to trash our players, but this offense didn't produce because of talent alone. It produced because players knew their roles and played smart with great coaching. There was defintely talent on this team, but it is really crazy to sugguest that this offense is as talented as many of the top offenses (many of which just won on talent alone despite coaching - see the late 90s Viking with Brian Billick as the OC).

How you get that is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Dagg]

He needs to run more maybe doing so earlier in the year will prepare the team for bad weather games...

And yes the game plan for the super bowl has horrid.

I know it easy to fall in love with the passing game but you have to emphasize the run IMO. Its going to be there for you when timing is a bit off.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Haha. That makes me think, are double screens possible? Like some kind of two option screen pass?

Like Brady-Moss-Brady to Gaffney in the Baltimore game????

 

[Kontradiction]

Like Brady-Moss-Brady to Gaffney in the Baltimore game????

You mean the Pittsburgh game?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Good article.For all the bashers, the reason he's the OC is the intelligence, intensity and focus he shares with Belichick and Brady.

You mean Josh "The Single Biggest Reasons We Lost the Super Bowl" McDaniels? For all his intelligence, his game planning for the super bowl was the worst. How can you not exploit the Giants slow linebackers? You've got no time to throw because of the giants pass rush so he let brady stand in the pocket and try to hit Moss. No adjustments to anything, no gadget plays. This where we were hurt - not having Charlie Weis.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Just a quick aside - McDaniels game plan in the Super Bowl was a product of Bill and Ernie as much as it was Josh - So let's not so quickly judge Josh solely for the debacle.

It's not like he said, "I have the game plan Bill and you can't see it."

Ya know?

see i disagree with that. i think belichick gave him more leeway with the offense last year because belichick had to spend 75% of the time coaching the defense. if we had RAC, then we wouldn't be in that situation.

 

[TB146]

You mean the Pittsburgh game?

Priceless!

 

[ScottieC]

You mean Josh "The Single Biggest Reasons We Lost the Super Bowl" McDaniels? For all his intelligence, his game planning for the super bowl was the worst. How can you not exploit the Giants slow linebackers? You've got no time to throw because of the giants pass rush so he let brady stand in the pocket and try to hit Moss. No adjustments to anything, no gadget plays. This where we were hurt - not having Charlie Weis.

Goodness. Do I have to say it again?

If you want to blame Josh, fine. However, blaming Josh and not blaming Bill and Ernie is just dumb. They were all in it together - Like I said, Josh did not go to Bill and say "I got the game plan and you can't see it!"

 

[ScottieC]

see i disagree with that. i think belichick gave him more leeway with the offense last year because belichick had to spend 75% of the time coaching the defense. if we had RAC, then we wouldn't be in that situation.

That may be true, Bro.

But ain't no way in hell I'm buying that in the Super Bowl.....with 2 weeks to prepare - No way, not a chance and would never happen.

Bill and Ernie were all over that game plan and I blame Ernie for not calling down the appropriate 2nd Half adjustments.