Andy Reid: Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

[JoeSixPat]

OK - apparently there is one and only one definition of "success" allowed on this board.

My mistake.

Thanks for the football insights everyone.

Hopefully Tom Brady doesn't get asked whether he had a successful season the last few years, otherwise given his potential answer he's sure to feel the wrath around here.

 

[Xzibit23]

OK - apparently there is one and only one definition of "success" allowed on this board.

My mistake.

Thanks for the football insights everyone.

Actually there isnt, which is what you're not understanding. There's team success and individual success, you seem to believe the only measurement of success is by the success of the team and whether they win the SB, thats asinine. Thats ONE measurement of success. By your reasoning, Kevin Faulk has had a more successful career than Barry Sanders...now does that make sense??

 

[PonyExpress]

OK - apparently there is one and only one definition of "success" allowed on this board.

My mistake.

Thanks for the football insights everyone.

Hopefully Tom Brady doesn't get asked whether he had a successful season the last few years, otherwise given his potential answer he's sure to feel the wrath around here.

I don't understand why this whole Moss thing has got you so upset. So, you were wrong about his character in that long thread before he signed, big deal. I've made about 100 threads I regret. I'm just happy he's back, at a reasonable price, and we can now consider him a true Patriot and not just a mercenary.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Actually there isnt, which is what you're not understanding. There's team success and individual success, you seem to believe the only measurement of success is by the success of the team and whether they win the SB, thats asinine. Thats ONE measurement of success. By your reasoning, Kevin Faulk has had a more successful career than Barry Sanders...now does that make sense??

That's how you choose to look at it.

That's how I choose to look at it too.

That's not necessarilly how everyone looks at it.

Heck - Moss and Brady both might not think they had successful seasons the way things wound up.

My only beef is that people seem to have a prohibition on considering both in whether someone had a successful season.

Is that really so hard for folks to accept?

You guys are a bundle of laughs. Just accept the fact that someone has a different opinion from you and move on.

 

[Satchboogie3]

This has almost made me forget/accept our SB loss. We have Randy Moss for 3 more years. This really confirms that Randy WANTS to play with us and he's having the time of his life. This is really a dream. Now lets go get that damned ring!

 

[RayClay]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

It wasn't the poster's suggestion that Moss was a success last year that had people ripping into him - it was the fact that he questioned whether Moss's tenure with Oakland and Minnesota could be deemed "succesful" and everyone apparently was aghast at that.

I quoted your accusation of me "casting my lot" with the poster, whatever that means. Chill.

I said Moss could be successful somewhere else and he sure could. Lot's of good teams that aren't Patriots or Oakland.

Glad he signed, that's all I have to say.

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

Randy Moss almost single handly took the Vikings to the Superbowl. This isn't an understatement.

I disagree.

The guy made several below average QB's pro-bowl superstars. And like it or not, he took Tom Brady from a great QB to consideration as one of the all time best.

I believe Brady was already considered one of the all time greats, deservedly so. I believe that Brady helped Moss's career rather than the other way around. Moss apparently agrees as he signed for less than what he believes he is worth to return.

I know this might upset the fanboys on this board, but to outsiders Tom was considered a great "system" QB that relied on the dink-and-dunk. He couldn't throw the long ball, and couldn't throw under pressure.That changed with Moss.

I totally disagree.

The guy was able to throw the long ball into double/triple coverage because he knew Moss would usually come down with it. I can't tell you how many "bad" passes that I saw Brady throw into coverage only to have Moss make a spectacular catch.

That just speaks to Moss's value, not an inherant flaw in Brady's game.

The fact is, Moss wasn't getting anywhere close to "fair market value" from the Pats.

Or anyone else for that matter. Dude is a proven team cancer EXCEPT with the Patriots. He wasn't going to get "fair market value" from ANY team.

They were low balling him, and he opened himself up to other teams to get a fair deal. He STILL gave the Pats a hometown discount, and yet you still b*tch.

He got a proven team cancer contract not a Patriot discount.


pao

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

As I said, it all depends on how you define success.

Absolutely correct.

And as I said Moss had an incredible rookie season when they "almost" went to the Super Bowl. Of course the list of teams that "almost" went to the Super Bowl is a pretty long one, so if that's success then I guess there's a lot of company there. But a 15-1 season deserves a ton of credit.

Randy had something to prove that first year (the "dude has a bad attitude and will self destruct and hurt the team" attitude coming out of college) AND he listened to Chris Carter that year. After that Moss started sliding down the slippery slope of his bad character of those days (he obviously has changed with the Patriots). Minnesota was not sorry to see him go to Oakland where he was a compete disaster.

How successful one considers the Vikings other seasons with Moss ranging from 5-11 to 11-5 is a matter of defining success as well. Around here we don't really look at a 11-5 season where we lose in the playoffs as a "success" but perhaps others do. And of course there's no need to even use "success" and "Raiders" in the same sentence, with or without Moss.

Great points. And I think it is a credit to the Patriots organisation that Moss IS a success with them. I don't think there is another organisation with a comparable combination to BB and TB. Moss needs that whether he or his fans want to admit it.

I just think there was a bit of an over-reaction jumping down Pao's throat for suggesting that he doesn't view Moss as having a lot of success outside of New England.

Thanks.

Could just be that Pao doesn't think that losing in the playoffs is a successful season. Crucify him if you must.

My point is he may be a statistical success by individual standards but he is a mess when it comes to team and team accomplishments. Therefore the only TEAM he would be a "success" with would be a team like NE (of which there is only one right now in the NFL).

Give the guy a break. As a long time member here I'm seeing a lot of brand new members who seem like they're only here to flame those who don't drink their particular brand of Kool-aid... and that's got to stop.

Great point. Sometimes a board needs outside opinion to maintain a healthy objectivity, or at least see where they may be going too far in their homerism (not a dig or criticism, all boards are homeristic by definition). I mean most of the followers of Jim Jones thought it was a good idea to drink THAT Kool-Aid, right?

pao

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

So you're going to cast your lot with Pao?

After your recent trip to denial (not in egypt) it might be better to just face reality and admit you were wrong.

Great comeback. You've changed my mind if not his.

pao

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

Minnesota traded him. I'm not sure why they would fight it when they traded him.

Exactly. Thanks.

pao

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

Yes, plenty of people wanted him, yes he could have got a lot more had he put himself on the auction block, yes he could have been successful elsewhere (for the clueless poster).

What proof do you have that he would have been a "success" elsewhere? Minnesota, who couldn't wait to get rid of him, or Oakland, who also couldn't wait to get rid of him? Randy himself didn't consider it a success in either place. I guess you know more about him than he does though.

pao

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

Wow.... you've been a Patriots fan for about 6 years, then?

You can still be a fan and consider your team unsuccessful. Or did you think the Patriots bad old days a success.

pao

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

Piece of advice, dont comment on things you know nothing about...namely how Moss left Minnesota. He was traded by an owner who was selling the team, and to this day, Vikings fans arent over it and consider it one of the biggest mistakes in the teams history. Moss is still an icon there, and there is a huge contingent of Viking fans who're incredibaly loyal to him. Not surprising considering he was there for 7 Years, with 6 of them being Probowl seasons..and would've been 7/7 if not for injuries. You can paint his 2 years as a Raider as bad, but he was LOVED by his teammates in Minny and was hardly a cancer.

Wrong.

pao

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

And why not?? Moss is first 6 years in Minnesota were the best EVER from a WR...he was better than Jerry Rice 6 years in. He was historically great, and you're wondering why people think saying he wasnt a success in Minnesota is stupid??

So who would 100% of GMs take after their first 6 years, Moss or Rice? Rice.

pao

 

[Xzibit23]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

Absolutely correct.

Randy had something to prove that first year (the "dude has a bad attitude and will self destruct and hurt the team" attitude coming out of college) AND he listened to Chris Carter that year. After that Moss started sliding down the slippery slope of his bad character of those days (he obviously has changed with the Patriots). Minnesota was not sorry to see him go to Oakland where he was a compete disaster.

pao

Can you please provide examples of how he was CANCER to the Vikings?? Seriously, I'm waiting. TO is a cancer, he publicly called out his QB in SF and Philly, and he divided the Eagles locker room in half...thats a cancer. Tell me how Randy was a cancer? By nudging a meter maid?? By fake mooning the GB crowd?? By squirting a ref with a water bottle?? The only potentially cancerous thing he did in Minny was walking off the field with 2 seconds left,..in 7 years as a Viking, that was it. He was loved by all his Viking teammates, the exact opposite of a cancer. He was the sole reason that team actually made the playoffs and contended, they ahd the worst pass defense in the NFL during his entire tenure there, he was the only thing they had going for them. Instead of making baseless claims that a guy "is a known cancer" why don't you bring evidence to back it up. I will give you the 2 years in Oakland, even though you can debate that he only became a problem in his 2nd year.

 

[Xzibit23]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

So who would 100% of GMs take after their first 6 years, Moss or Rice? Rice.

pao

Being 2nd to Jerry Rice and being a cancer are WORLDS apart. You only seem to talk in extremes, either a guy is the best ever or he's a cancer. The mere fact that his first 6 years are in anyway comparable to Jerry Rice refute the ridiculous claim you're making that he wasnt "successful" in Minnesota. Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

Can you please provide examples of how he was CANCER to the Vikings?? Seriously, I'm waiting. TO is a cancer, he publicly called out his QB in SF and Philly, and he divided the Eagles locker room in half...thats a cancer. Tell me how Randy was a cancer? By nudging a meter maid?? By fake mooning the GB crowd?? By squirting a ref with a water bottle?? The only potentially cancerous thing he did in Minny was walking off the field with 2 seconds left,..in 7 years as a Viking, that was it. He was loved by all his Viking teammates, the exact opposite of a cancer. He was the sole reason that team actually made the playoffs and contended, they ahd the worst pass defense in the NFL during his entire tenure there, he was the only thing they had going for them. Instead of making baseless claims that a guy "is a known cancer" why don't you bring evidence to back it up. I will give you the 2 years in Oakland, even though you can debate that he only became a problem in his 2nd year.

As a San Diego fan I watched him BOTH years in Oakland. He was a cancer. As for your contention that everyone loved him I don't agree and there's no way to prove it. I remember Chris Carter, his personal chaperone Randy's first year, saying he was a problem. Whatever. All you need to do to see my side of it is to look at what the Patriots got him for, what? A fourth round pick. If he wasn't what I say how do you explain it with his stats (that you say make him the best ever after his first 6 years)? Why didn't Minnesota take him back for a fourth or third or second when they had traded him for a number one just two years earlier? But whatever. We disagree. It's been a great discussion.

pao

 

[pao]

Re: Andy Reid:Randy was always going to go back to the Patriots

Being 2nd to Jerry Rice and being a cancer are WORLDS apart.

I didn't make that comparison. You said he was the best ever after 6 years. I, and most people, don't agree.

You only seem to talk in extremes, either a guy is the best ever or he's a cancer.

I never said that Moss was the best ever. There are quite a few that are and were better.

The mere fact that his first 6 years are in anyway comparable to Jerry Rice refute the ridiculous claim you're making that he wasnt "successful" in Minnesota. Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

I said there is more to "success" than stats. I stand by that statement.

pao

 

[lorijean]

My goodness, this thread could go on forever....just thought I would help it by posting...lol.

Anyhow, good people can disagree about things.

 

[pao]

My goodness, this thread could go on forever....just thought I would help it by posting...lol.

Anyhow, good people can disagree about things.

Exactly right. It has been a good discussion by great people without insult (for the most part). It's funny though, I think Randy had an awesome year for the Patriots AND I am bummed that they re-signed him. I am a Charger fan. The Patriots are MUCH stronger with him. Don't quite understand the vitriol with which some are arguing about Randy's pre Patriot days. It's all good though, it has been a great discussion. We are still NFL brothers even if we do root for different teams.

pao