The Patriots are changing their evaluation grading system for scouting

[RobertWeathers]

Chad Ochocinco was the most notable. DeMaryius Thomas had a horrible preseason, seemed not pick up the offense, was cut, re-signed and never made it onto the field until he was traded to the Jets a few weeks later despite the Pats being thin at WR. Rumors were that Torry Holt had trouble picking up the system before they put him on IR, but who knows. I thought Joey Galloway made it once as an All Pro, but I am wrong. But he couldn’t get the offense.
I am guessing you think I meant All Pros in their prime. I was talking about players who exceeded in simple offenses enough to be elite players but were clueless in the Patriots offense. Not that they were still All Pros by the time they got to the Patriots. I should have been more clear about that.

Ochocinco and Galloway at least would have sucked in the Patriots’ offense even in their prime. Neither could pick up the offense at all.

They were washed up when they got here. Its not like they went somewhere else and were All Pros again.

 

[upstater1]

There is no guarantee it is "obviously" as we know nothing about this FO or coaching staff's philosophy. We could have another Joe Mendes picking players.

Agree but they need to still learn an NFL offense.

Several All Pros? Who?

People who were once all-pros but then very old and almost out of the league, guys who didn't go on to do anything anywhere else.

 

[signbabybrady]

People who were once all-pros but then very old and almost out of the league, guys who didn't go on to do anything anywhere else.

I'm only 40 but I guess I'm old I really don't understand all this the offense was too hard stuff. No kidding that's the point this is football at its highest level. And I'm not going to deny that it wasn't for everyone but again so what because we saw what happened when you find guys that will buy in and learn it and run it right. There was 3 different runs of teams that figured it out so in reality there were plenty of WRs, RBs, TEs, and OL who could run it. At QB obviously it was all Brady. Cassel and Jimmy were decent too but not enough to really silence the haters. So all we really have is our conviction. And I will go to my grave believing that there are other QBs and offenses that could still benefit from it obviously not to the extent of ten SBs. It really is shame to see and hear people look at it and say that's too hard and just give up rather than try to figure it out and reap the rewards.

Ok now if you don't agree get off my lawn

 

[FCB02062]

Bill always tried to get guys to fit his system, because after all, with Bill the Coach/GM, it was always about Xs and Os and never about Jimmys and Joe's. Remember when he was still playing a base 3-4 defense and he couldn't draft a mcginest replacement because most colleges were 4-3, so he kept drafting undersized college DEs to try to convert them to the mcginest "elephant" position...Tully Banta Cain was a guy who semi worked at that...but there were others who just never made it.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I remember when BB first started here Pioli said, don't worry Bill, I'll get you some good players, and BB said, get me players to fit my system. I guess his system stopped working.

 

[upstater1]

I'm only 40 but I guess I'm old I really don't understand all this the offense was too hard stuff. No kidding that's the point this is football at its highest level. And I'm not going to deny that it wasn't for everyone but again so what because we saw what happened when you find guys that will buy in and learn it and run it right. There was 3 different runs of teams that figured it out so in reality there were plenty of WRs, RBs, TEs, and OL who could run it. At QB obviously it was all Brady. Cassel and Jimmy were decent too but not enough to really silence the haters. So all we really have is our conviction. And I will go to my grave believing that there are other QBs and offenses that could still benefit from it obviously not to the extent of ten SBs. It really is shame to see and hear people look at it and say that's too hard and just give up rather than try to figure it out and reap the rewards.

Ok now if you don't agree get off my lawn

Essentially the strategy was finding open spaces to throw it to, reading the defense and having the option to change your route. Unless the QB had continuity and consistency with the WRs, it didn't work. This is why thy want to get rid of it, because the NFL is about things working instantly, or else overpowering people with your sheer physical strength.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bill always tried to get guys to fit his system, because after all, with Bill the Coach/GM, it was always about Xs and Os and never about Jimmys and Joe's. Remember when he was still playing a base 3-4 defense and he couldn't draft a mcginest replacement because most colleges were 4-3, so he kept drafting undersized college DEs to try to convert them to the mcginest "elephant" position...Tully Banta Cain was a guy who semi worked at that...but there were others who just never made it.

They passed on Carlos Dunlap and took his teammate Cunningham because they wanted to stay a 3-4. Bill gave up the following year signing Andre Carter and Mark Anderson (good signings) and ran a 4-3 for years, but has no gone back to a now hybrid 3-4/and or Okie front.

 

[The Gr8est]

One thing that BB had always emphasized is to get players “who football was important to”.

I hope the Pats still look for those types.

That is one thing that concerns me about Caleb Williams.

There were reports that he was looking for part ownership of a team.

That suggests something, but not a love of football.

 

[Wozzy]

Tyquan Thornton and Cole Strange were also big reaches. I’m assuming Highsmith will take more than just speed and quickness into account.

The main thing about Thornton was just that he is supposed to be lightning fast. He was also projected fourth round at best and we took him mid-second.

"Reaches" based on who... Mel Kiper, Street&Smith's, Tito the bartender down the corner?

I'd like to see Thornton and Strange stay healthy and get a high functioning offense around them. But then, I don't have an irrational desire to see BB draft picks fail... I see them as Patriots and nothing else.

I'll give them 3-4 years total, like I'd give every other talented rookie who shows flashes.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I think this is the best news I have heard since the change in regimes. Looks like Belichick's grading system of putting an emphasis of how a player will fit into the Patriots' system over everything else is gone. And they are implementing the Packers' system where they emphasize athleticism, versatility, and explosiveness.



View attachment 56493

Patriots seemingly have no plans to fill vacant GM job this year in wake of Bill Belichick's departure

New England, however, has revamped its personnel group now captained by Eliot Wolf

www.cbssports.com

Finally! Instead of taking the N'Keal Harrys of the world we can actually take explosive athletes with talent in the draft? What a concept!

 

[VJCPatriot]

One thing that BB had always emphasized is the get players “who football was important to”.

To suggest that football wasn't important to the players that BB passed on is simply a blind and illogical defense.

These kids have prepared their whole life for the draft and the NFL and football wasn't important to them? I don't buy it.

It's far more likely that in BB's grading system, as described by prior reports, he valued "system fit" rather than talent and because of that he made quite a few mistakes with talent evaluation.

How else to explain the downhill talent drain over the past 10 years or so and his piss poor draft results?

Again the BB defenders don't seem to understand that this system failed and went the way of the dinosaurs years ago.

It's time to move on from systems that clearly don't work anymore. And that starts with the Patriots draft and how they stack their draft boards.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I think this is the best news I have heard since the change in regimes. Looks like Belichick's grading system of putting an emphasis of how a player will fit into the Patriots' system over everything else is gone. And they are implementing the Packers' system where they emphasize athleticism, versatility, and explosiveness.



View attachment 56493

Patriots seemingly have no plans to fill vacant GM job this year in wake of Bill Belichick's departure

New England, however, has revamped its personnel group now captained by Eliot Wolf

www.cbssports.com

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Finally! Instead of taking the N'Keal Harrys of the world we can actually take explosive athletes with talent in the draft? What a concept!

hopefull they can play football too or we end up with 10 Thornton's

 

[Rob0729]

They were washed up when they got here. Its not like they went somewhere else and were All Pros again.

I get they were washed up, but it doesn’t change that they were completely lost in the Patriots’ system. These were some of the best of all time who couldn’t figure out how to play in the Patriots’ system. Several of the, admitted that. Again, Ochocinco and Galloway would have struggled in the Patriots’ system in their prime.

 

[Ivan]

Tyquan Thornton was the fastest or second fastest player in his entire draft class, Marcus Jones was also one of the most athletic players in his draft class, so was Cole Strange at his position.

I think the front office could benefit from not insisting on players BB likes on a personal level and judges them solely on football merits... we'll see.

But saying the Patriots under BB didn't draft athletic players is silly.

Mac sucked, now we're not sure who picked him... but he was the biggest problem.

I agree with this. And I don’t think this changes the scouting reports so much as it does what to emphasiize within them when picking players. I think that you have to start now because you are picking players for future team’s, and the “advantage” the Patriots had for the past 20 years was that they weren’t changing systems every couple of seasons, so the traits the players had were the right fits for the systems they were using. Whereas teams that are constantly changing coaches and systems are always stuck with an almagamation of past and future player traits, which is where the Patriots are right now. With the biggest question, at least in my mind, is how their current OL fit with their change to the WC adaptation blocking schemes they are going to be running?

 

[Ivan]

So, this sounds great when it comes to WRs, where we seemed to miss a lot.

but how do those traits work for OL; our 2d (IMO) biggest need?
what about other positions?QB - does this lead to a running QB who can’t throw ( god forbid). Defense?

at the end of the day; I’m not sure it matters what grade system you use. For example in schools: if you grade on a 0-100 point scal, give grades A, B, C, D in a 4-pt scale or even use the European 6-pt inverse system: (1 = best / 6= failed. )

What matters is WHO IS DOING THE GRADING it the point system?
Then who applies the filters and decisions. Sounds like Eliot , Mayo, and van Lesly w Alonzo thrown in doing the latter. So that should be different and I am cautiously hopeful.

but that initial grading #s has to be from the records and BB guy carryovers. If our presumption is that scouting process sucked…. Well, still: garbage in -garbage out.

maybe they ‘ll just use Kiper’s list and call it a day. LoL.

Nothing says explosive like N’Keal Harry and Jordan Richards.

 

[Ivan]

Bill picked Jones.

And he was a problem not THE problem.

?

When was Marcus Jones a problem?

Am I missing something here, or did I misread it?

Question answered, I didn’t read the quote inserted fully. It was Mac Jones

 

[Username]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Packers fans constantly complain about their draft classes, especially regarding a lack of offensive playmakers? And have done for the past decade at least.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Very happy about this news. The Patriots were known to have some of the smallest draft boards in the league. Instead of downgrading players for an issue they would often simply remove them from their board all together.

There was a rumor Deebo Samuel and Aj Brown were removed from the Pats board because they had to much fun on their visit to Foxboro.

Hopefully this new regime will hit on value plays in the draft that the previous regime would have completely removed from their board. The current group could buy themselves good will at the draft by simply not going against general consensus as much as Bill did.

 

[TomPatriot]

Imho, for OL (especially OT), lateral explosiveness is incredibly important. It's why a lot of the best OLs have had incredibly good 20yd shuttle times - the 1st step for that test is a side to side motion. It's no coincidence future HoFer Jason Kelce has the fastest Combine time ever for the position.

"Kelce has the mobility and mentality to make it as a reserve center in the NFL. However, does not have the size or power to project as a starter... Is never going to be a road-grading run blocker who blows defenders off the ball. Late-rounder or rookie free agent."

The early dynasty OLs were more like this. Precision and mobility were more important than power.