Stallworth probably leaves after this year

[mcbee]

While I'm 100% positive that Belioli is looking at this team and thinking "I can't wait until the end of the season so that we can break up the greatest offense in NFL history!", perhaps there is that 1% chance that they'll change their minds and decide that historic greatness is an acceptable thing, even in back to back seasons.


Just a thought.

What he wants to do and is able to do aren't always the same thing.

They have this thing called a SALARY CAP, and traditionally they try not to backload it.

Just a thought.

 

[mcbee]

Can we please change the thread title to "I think/want Stallworth Leaves After This Year"

If you're going to make baseless predictions it'd be nice if the thread title indicated this.

I think that Stallworth stays because a big part of the reason he came was because Brady talked him into it based on their historical relationship. There is cap room to be found...have faith in Belioli.

It's obvious in the thread title that it's speculation.

What is Brady's "historical relationship" with STallworth?

And where is "cap room to be found"? #2 WR isn't worth what STallworth could get on the open market, and #2 WR is all they're going to pay him. Simple as that. They don't like overpaying for a position.

 

[Pats726]

Can we please change the thread title to "I think/want Stallworth Leaves After This Year"

If you're going to make baseless predictions it'd be nice if the thread title indicated this.

I think that Stallworth stays because a big part of the reason he came was because Brady talked him into it based on their historical relationship. There is cap room to be found...have faith in Belioli.

GREAT post...people do NOT want Stallworth here..just say it!!! I think he stays...he and Moss are good friends..they MAKE a gret combo...and with Welker THAT is a trio that will keep this team afire...WIth Brady..can we add some more Lombardis?? He stays....

 

[ATippett56]

Yea, but Givens was playing with Deion Branch, not Rand Moss and Wes Welker. Let's put it this way, if Moss was to go down to injury, I'd rather have Donte Stallworth than David Givens.

Funny how Deion Branch only played 9 games in 2004 when David Givens put up his best year with the Patriots.

http://www.nfl.com/players/deionbranch/profile?id=BRA490549

 

[sebman2112]

Funny how Deion Branch only played 9 games in 2004 when David Givens put up his best year with the Patriots.

http://www.nfl.com/players/deionbranch/profile?id=BRA490549

Yup, and Stallworth as Brady's third (sometimes second) option is on pace for 5-6TD's. Givens had 3 TD's in 2004, and maxed out at 6 TD's in 2003.

Moss opens Stallworth up for some receptions, but without Moss, Stallworth would likely get Moss' read, and Randy in the early going has been open a lot, which has limited Brady's need to go through his progressions.

 

[mcbee]

Yup, and Stallworth as Brady's third (sometimes second) option is on pace for 5-6TD's. Givens had 3 TD's in 2004, and maxed out at 6 TD's in 2003.

Moss opens Stallworth up for some receptions, but without Moss, Stallworth would likely get Moss' read, and Randy in the early going has been open a lot, which has limited Brady's need to go through his progressions.

Absolutely. So Moss kind of takes away the NEED to have a high priced guy as a #2.

I doubt the Pats pay him 6M cap hit and Moss a 6-8M cap hit. I don't think they have the room.

If he won't cut WAY back, then he'll go. He may get that kind of money someplace else.

Just because "they work well together, it's neat-o!", doesn't mean he'll be here next year.

 

[Pats726]

I doubt the Pats pay him 6M cap hit and Moss a 6-8M cap hit. I don't think they have the room.
If he won't cut WAY back, then he'll go. He may get that kind of money someplace else.

Why doesn't an EXPERT on the cap answer that......I'd like yo hear what Miguel says.....Rather stay to this year that speculate....

 

[mcbee]

Why doesn't an EXPERT on the cap answer that......I'd like yo hear what Miguel says.....Rather stay to this year that speculate....

Go to "miguel's salary cap page" and "future cap hits".

It's not rocket science.

They could juggle everyone around, but they don't like backloading the contracts.

Bottom line, will the pats be willing to pay a #2 WR 6M next year? If not, will he be willing to play for what they WILL pay him? After all someone else might be willing to pay him much more than the Pats. At which time, sentimentality and fan preferences MIGHT go out the window. Playing with Brady is nice, but 3M in extra cash is nice too.

 

[Miguel]

Go to "miguel's salary cap page" and "future cap hits".

It's not rocket science.

They could juggle everyone around, but they don't like backloading the contracts.

How do you define backloading contracts??

 

[mcbee]

How do you define backloading contracts??

Having a 5 year contract look like

Signing bonus

salaries 1 1 3 10 10.

Either they cut him and take the unamortized as cap hit or they have to pay him if he's not willing to cut back.

Looking at your page though, I see Washington is on there for 5.7M, so obviously he won't get that. If he's cut there's probably a huge cap savings as I don't think his SB was very big. So that's some money. Colvin COULD be extended at a moderate salary (he's making much more than Vrabel) and have his hit lowered by a couple million.

So there is money in there obviously.

 

[carolinatony]

Who is this Jackson guy you keep talking about?
I really believe we could get Chad Johnson to play here next year along side of Moss.

 

[mcbee]

Who is this Jackson guy you keep talking about?
I really believe we could get Chad Johnson to play here next year along side of Moss.

Chad Jackson. Promising 2nd year guy.

Getting a player and paying 9M or whatever his salary is is two different things. They have to be able to fit him under the cap, in addition to trading away valuable picks for him. If they don't have the picks, they have to sign FAs to fill those positions.

Chad Johnson would be expensive in picks, expensive in salary. Besides he's a me-first egotistical type of guy.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Stallworth's contract really isn't that bad. Some restructuring could keep him here. He's quite a weapon, especially when it comes to YAC, but ultimately, Chad Jackson might be a more versatile receiver (I know that will offend some at this point given CJ hasn't accomplished much), and therefore Stallworth may become not worth it.

I agree - I wouldn't be so quick to rule it out.

I mean, did Moss just re-sign and I missed the news about it? With no guarantee Moss is here folks are already running Stallworth out of town?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they looked for a cheaper additional deep threat for next season if Moss is here - but even if he is I think its clear looking at this season that BB sees the value of giving Brady quality WR options - and yes, one does have to pay a high salary for them

You CAN fit them into the cap if its a big enough priority.

I hate to be the one to say it, but what if Moss tweaks a hamstring? Isn't it nice to know that Stallworth can be nearly as much of a deep threat as Moss and that we can keep this freight train moving towards the perfect season?

Don't be so quick to say he's gone next year - the team has him signed - there's no need to go out to bid on him - and that's no small thing with Moss a free agent.

 

[Fencer]

I'm not as sure of his leaving as I was earlier in the season, but I still don't see the Pats paying $6 million+/year for a guy who would take as few snaps as Stallworth does for them.

So the question is whether he can get that money elsewhere.

What we have in our favor is that Tom Brady's receivers haven't had all that much production for their subsequent teams, and front offices might eventually get a bit leery of that trend.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm not as sure of his leaving as I was earlier in the season, but I still don't see the Pats paying $6 million+/year for a guy who would take as few snaps as Stallworth does for them.

So the question is whether he can get that money elsewhere.

What we have in our favor is that Tom Brady's receivers haven't had all that much production for their subsequent teams, and front offices might eventually get a bit leery of that trend.

Seriously - did Moss re-sign? Did I miss it?

People want to cut Stallworth leaving us just with Welker and Chad Jackson, and assuming they don't cut him too Washington?

Until Moss is signed sealed and delivered, how can we even contemplate cutting him?

And even if he is signed and gets injured next year would people really expect us to be just as effective with only Welker, Jackson and Washington if he tweaks a hamstring? If that's a question of spending $4 million for JAG or $6 million on Stallworth for "Moss Injury Insurance" I'm feeling pretty good about spending that additional $2 million.

 

[chrisfx811]

Is Indy's defense a bargain basement unit, outside of Freeney?
How else do they afford Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Addai, etc?

Does anyone think Moss will sign for less than what a #1 wr would command?
I'd imagine if Harrison is done, the Colts will be willing to pony up for another weapon.
As would Denver with all their injuries.

 

[Pats726]

Go to "miguel's salary cap page" and "future cap hits".

It's not rocket science.

They could juggle everyone around, but they don't like backloading the contracts.

Bottom line, will the pats be willing to pay a #2 WR 6M next year? If not, will he be willing to play for what they WILL pay him? After all someone else might be willing to pay him much more than the Pats. At which time, sentimentality and fan preferences MIGHT go out the window. Playing with Brady is nice, but 3M in extra cash is nice too.

I was asking for an expert's advice on this situation..NOT where his pages are...

 

[Pats726]

So there is money in there obviously.

Meaning...that maybe he could stay...you answered your own question...VERY good...

 

[satz]

How soon people forgot his contribution .... when moss was triple covered and slot was taken up he produced .Every one gives credit for moss for the 55 yrd but then the 33 yrd stallworth pulls gets crapped on. I know about the cap but then again its a number they can work with.WR has become like our DL unless have 3 good DL players we can never win the LOS. We need presure on the entire back field not just on one side and middle of the field.

WITH Chad jackson one does not know if he can produce when such conditions.also stallworth is 26 and fast .I will suprised if they pull the plug on this and let man to man rolling the safety in the box and stop our offence.AThey will untill CJ has a few 100 yrd games if he fizzles that is the offence for us.

 

[Deus Irae]

Having a 5 year contract look like

Signing bonus

salaries 1 1 3 10 10.

Either they cut him and take the unamortized as cap hit or they have to pay him if he's not willing to cut back.

Looking at your page though, I see Washington is on there for 5.7M, so obviously he won't get that. If he's cut there's probably a huge cap savings as I don't think his SB was very big. So that's some money. Colvin COULD be extended at a moderate salary (he's making much more than Vrabel) and have his hit lowered by a couple million.

So there is money in there obviously.

Yes, there is money, even with the salary cap. Just a thought.