No decision by Commish yet because....

[Metaphors]

I'm sure they are trying to collect more info from the past that could be part of any penalty. If the league was serious enough to hand down a a suspension it would be done in the next few days. The longer they wait the less of a penalty it will be.

I don't think the commish will include past activities since there isn't any physical evidence and the Pats would have to be given a chance to provide their side of those stories as well. That could drag out for weeks and will almost certainly result in a "he said, she said" conclusion.

I do agree that the length of time between the Pats explanation and the judgement is likely a reflection of a lesser penalty. Goodell can't afford to have owners/GMs/coaches keeping this in the news after the judgement comes down. Whatever happens, everyone needs to fall in line and repeat "the commissioner dealt with the situation, appropriate punishment was handed out, now we move on" line...including Kraft.

I'm thinking this time is not being spent deciding on a punishment, but making sure the post-announcement landscape is as orderly and controlled as possible. I'm expecting a reasonable punishment that Kraft is on-board with...as well as a stern public announcement that detailed regulations (with consequences) have been distributed to every team, and future violations will be dealt with swiftly and the punishments will be severe.

 

[feelthepain]

He realizes that this is a lit powderkeg and whatever decision is handed down has the potential to rock the foundations of the entire league (past, present and future.) Face it, we're not speaking of a player or players. We're speaking of an entire organization, it's ownership, players, coaches and fan base. We're speaking of an enterprise in itself! I'm confident the reason the Commish has not had any formal comment on the situation is that he is gathering as much input from intellectuals from several diffferent backgrounds on what might be the potential repercussions his final decision will have. This whole "camera-gate" is completely out of control from players to coaches to owners to investors to sponsers....the list is long. The Commish knows this. Whatever decision is handed down, will be precise and deliberate and with the best interest of keeping the integrity of the entire NFL intact.

Please post your comments on this~!

Well everyone was specifically warned before the season began about cheating. BB knew and still did it anyways. I think that's going to be a factor in the punishment, there are a LOT of teams that have been complaining about the Pats cheating, Goodell is probably talking to the ones that are willing to speak up and find out how far back the complaints go.

 

[upstater1]

Really a great post. This captures the "times that we live in" and overall attitude of how people feel about one another. So, I ask, are you stating that there actually WILL be a before and after point of demarkation? It won't be "the day that cheating occured." It will be the day that teams got law suite happy and lost sight of the game.

It is sickening to me.

Do you think that Goodell could possibly stem the tide by some strong leadership here? If he got rid of the "united nation" Competition commitee and made clear some of the gray areas, perhaps this darkness would go away. But, I am more inclined that your post says it all.

I think a real commissioner could just say, The Patriots violated the spirit of the law, and therefore this is their punishment. I would accept a one game suspension and a draft pick loss at this point. But the commissioner should also say that the NFL has been remiss in delineating the rules more clearly, which opened them to interpretation. He should then leak word to every NFL team to clam up or else.

Personally, I don't think Gooddell has a handle on any of this. You know why? Because you have Jeff Fischer, a member of the competition committee, making comments. That tells me that the commissioner has lost complete control. This is about the NFL's image, and key players are now way off the reservation.

Gooddell doesn't want the lawyers and security on the sidelines of every game, but the only way to do that is to appease the Patriots in part, by punishing them with something acceptable (I do believe at this point the Patriots would accept something like a 3rd round draft pick loss and a 1 game BB suspension), while also telling the rest of the teams they better start thinking of the good of the NFL. That comment should be pointed at Mangini.

 

[upstater1]

Well everyone was specifically warned before the season began about cheating. BB knew and still did it anyways. I think that's going to be a factor in the punishment, there are a LOT of teams that have been complaining about the Pats cheating, Goodell is probably talking to the ones that are willing to speak up and find out how far back the complaints go.

Just wondering. What do you think Zach Thomas' feelings are about all this? He's the one that bragged last year about stolen signals. The NFL was completely fine with it after the Phins game last year.

 

[richpats]

I do agree that the length of time between the Pats explanation and the judgement is likely a reflection of a lesser penalty.

I also think the angle of the Pats being able "to make their case" is a calculated move to allow for the NFL to exercise some leniency. It's not like the NFL will listen and make the punishment worse.

 

[Pats726]

Well everyone was specifically warned before the season began about cheating. BB knew and still did it anyways. I think that's going to be a factor in the punishment, there are a LOT of teams that have been complaining about the Pats cheating, Goodell is probably talking to the ones that are willing to speak up and find out how far back the complaints go.

Wait....cheating IS allowed...if stealing signals is cheating then....it's only what FORM of cheating is allowed..NOT IF cheating is....seems like it's cheating to steal signals NO??? If it is...then ALL methods of obtaining them ARE cheating...The Patriots may have violated a rule..cheating is done by every team...

 

[Metaphors]

Well everyone was specifically warned before the season began about cheating. BB knew and still did it anyways.

The Pats didn't cheat since the camera/tape was removed in the 1st quarter. You can stand outside of a bank with a ski mask and a large bag with the words "Stolen Money" on the side and that still doesn't make you a bank robber. At worst you can claim a conspiracy to cheat, but that involves determining intent which is a tricky thing to do unless someone drew up a plan or confesses.

I think that's going to be a factor in the punishment, there are a LOT of teams that have been complaining about the Pats cheating, Goodell is probably talking to the ones that are willing to speak up and find out how far back the complaints go.

It doesn't matter what they think. It is what they can prove. If they could prove the Pats cheated, don't you think they would have done it by now? You think Kraft is going to accept a punishment based on rumors of past incidents by people who have a vested interest in the severity of the punishment? You think Goodell wants to be taken to court by Kraft for losing a first round pick or having Belichick suspended for several games?

That is the "nuclear option" and nobody (not even the Jets) wants to go down that road. Goodell would get weekly complaints of cheating from every team and have to respond with an investigation and (unless they are complete BS) some sort of punishment involving suspensions/draft picks. At that point, might as well put Jerry Springer in charge of the league.

 

[Mack Herron]

Politics

The Commish waited until the wind was clearly blowing hurricane force before acting on Vick and has now waited way too long on this one. He allowed the case to be played out in teh media, with input from NFL representatives on his committee. He turned it into a PR disaster not only for the Patriots but also for the league. The longer it goes, the worse it gets.

 

[Pujo]

The Pats didn't cheat since the camera/tape was removed in the 1st quarter. You can stand outside of a bank with a ski mask and a large bag with the words "Stolen Money" on the side and that still doesn't make you a bank robber. At worst you can claim a conspiracy to cheat, but that involves determining intent which is a tricky thing to do unless someone drew up a plan or confesses.

I disagree. Legally (and I know this isn't a legal matter), conspiracy requires taking one or more overt actions toward commiting the crime. Once that's done, proving intent is easy.

It doesn't matter what they think. It is what they can prove.

That's the kicker, though, it's only what they can prove to Goodell's satisfaction. They don't have to prove anything to a jury.

 

[Nordy]

Re: Politics

The Commish waited until the wind was clearly blowing hurricane force before acting on Vick and has now waited way too long on this one. He allowed the case to be played out in teh media, with input from NFL representatives on his committee. He turned it into a PR disaster not only for the Patriots but also for the league. The longer it goes, the worse it gets.

Exactly. Goodell has been a terrible commissioner as far as I'm concerned. To wait this long to hand down his ruling, and to let the media just fire away at Belichick and the Patriots for a whole week when a decision hasn't even been announced, is just irresponsible.

What I can't understand is why Kraft and Belichick are just sitting by idly letting this happen.

 

[Bella*chick]

Re: Politics

Exactly. Goodell has been a terrible commissioner as far as I'm concerned. To wait this long to hand down his ruling, and to let the media just fire away at Belichick and the Patriots for a whole week when a decision hasn't even been announced, is just irresponsible.

What I can't understand is why Kraft and Belichick are just sitting by idly letting this happen.

Maybe it's a subtle part of the punishment.

Who knows anymore. One thing I am sure of is we are the only fans glued to our MB hitting the refresh button every two minutes. That'll make ANY week turn into a lifetime.

 

[feelthepain]

Just wondering. What do you think Zach Thomas' feelings are about all this? He's the one that bragged last year about stolen signals. The NFL was completely fine with it after the Phins game last year.

I don't know what Zach is feeling, I'm not him. I do know that what Miami did was to study tape that was filmed by a TV station, which is official NFL game film. It was also film of the game, not the sidelines, it was also not specific of a teams sidelines and their signals. If Miami was listening to the calls filmed during a game that's the cheating all teams do, when you take film of a teams sideline during a game and use that info for the same game is far more of an advantage.

 

[Fahrenhype]

He won't go lenient on punishment out of fear for "tarnishing" a team's reputation. The ship sailed well before Sunday, if you think people didn't hate Belichick before this I don't know what to tell you.

He'll hand out what he feels is the appropriate punishment (what that could be is hard to discern... how much did the video help them in the second half if it was confiscated during the first quarter?) and the Patriots will have to accept it and move on.

What he's got to be careful with is pushing Belichick to the point where he no longer feels he needs to conceal what his witnessed in several decades of working in the league. How is Phil Simms, the NY media, and the NY fans going to feel if it turns out the Giants SB teams were doing the same thing?

Accept whatever punishment Goodell imposes. It's justified. But don't be dumb enough to think that this hasn't been going for many years in many place.

 

[BelichickFan]

Accept whatever punishment Goodell imposes. It's justified.

How is it justified before you know the punishment ?

How about if the punishment is hanging ? Is that justrified ?

:bricks:

 

[bostonbuzz]

Man-o-man did Mangenius ever open the proverbial can of worms. What a TOOL. What the hell was he thinking when he exposed the type of thing coaches and players have kept close to the vest for an eternity. Gee Eric not too long ago this type of thing must have been perfectly OK with YOU. NO? I bet the commish wished you'd kept your pie-hole shut! Now he HAS to do something. To top it off from what I've read according to league rules the only rule BB actually broke was video taping the opposition from the field during a game. Not 'cheating' per say. Let us not overlook the fact regarding 'cheating' coaches and players have been 'cheating' in one way or another since day one to try to get an advantage over another team or player.

And what's with all these coaches and players standing on their soap-boxes talking out both sides of their mouths about the 'cheaters' in NE. Makes me want to tell them all to shut the **** up and get back to doing what they do on a daily basis. Sure THEY'RE all perfect angels. I hate it when I know a good amount of these people are just as guilty of doing similar things and now can take full advantage of someone else getting caught because a weasel with a personal agenda felt the need to rat out a former com'patriot'.

Just venting...I could be wrong...but it's how I feel today.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I don't know what Zach is feeling, I'm not him. I do know that what Miami did was to study tape that was filmed by a TV station, which is official NFL game film. It was also film of the game, not the sidelines, it was also not specific of a teams sidelines and their signals. If Miami was listening to the calls filmed during a game that's the cheating all teams do, when you take film of a teams sideline during a game and use that info for the same game is far more of an advantage.

So do you argree with all the cheater names beibg pointed at the Patriots? Or are you more level headed and are saying that we broke the camera violation. The cheating part is no relevant.

 

[Krugman]

Upstater,you some interesting points.

 

[Bella*chick]

He won't go lenient on punishment out of fear for "tarnishing" a team's reputation. The ship sailed well before Sunday, if you think people didn't hate Belichick before this I don't know what to tell you.

He'll hand out what he feels is the appropriate punishment (what that could be is hard to discern... how much did the video help them in the second half if it was confiscated during the first quarter?) and the Patriots will have to accept it and move on.

What he's got to be careful with is pushing Belichick to the point where he no longer feels he needs to conceal what his witnessed in several decades of working in the league. How is Phil Simms, the NY media, and the NY fans going to feel if it turns out the Giants SB teams were doing the same thing?

Accept whatever punishment Goodell imposes. It's justified. But don't be dumb enough to think that this hasn't been going for many years in many place.

The NY fans are total idiots if they don't think the Giants were doing this sort of thing.

Where do they think Belichick learned the ins and outs of the NFL....on the freakin' internet? Listening to NFL Network? Watching ESPN?

 

[upstater1]

I don't know what Zach is feeling, I'm not him. I do know that what Miami did was to study tape that was filmed by a TV station, which is official NFL game film. It was also film of the game, not the sidelines, it was also not specific of a teams sidelines and their signals. If Miami was listening to the calls filmed during a game that's the cheating all teams do, when you take film of a teams sideline during a game and use that info for the same game is far more of an advantage.

It's not official game film. People went out of their way to state it wasn't official. In fact, it was purchased.

As for your last point, you agree that cheating is regularly done by use of technological means. I have no idea what you mean when you say it was not specific? The fact is, they used it to steal signals. What if the Patriots' cameraman was filming cheerleaders' butts, cut to Mangini, the guy in the stands eating a hot dog, cut to Mangini, etc.? You see what I'm getting at? If you're capable of pulling stolen signals off a tape at all, that makes it a hot tape. You can't say, ooops, I don't know how that got on there, I was filming the mating calls of blackbirds that just happened to be flying over the stadium.

And lastly, no one knows how these tapes were used. In fact, Belichick has already said these weren't used during the game. So your charge is just speculation.

 

[feelthepain]

Wait....cheating IS allowed...if stealing signals is cheating then....it's only what FORM of cheating is allowed..NOT IF cheating is....seems like it's cheating to steal signals NO??? If it is...then ALL methods of obtaining them ARE cheating...The Patriots may have violated a rule..cheating is done by every team...

I agree, but it seems the Pats are the only team making their own film....specifically of the other teams coaches using their signals during a game and then using it during the same game. Cheating is cheating yes, and all teams use some form of film study, but it's still a crap shoot on game day, unless you're filming on game day and using that film on the same game day, that's a huge advantage because you're using the game photos given during the game by the NFL and matching it to the calls that game. If teams study game film from a previous weeks game, teams can change their signals from week to week so it's still a crap shoot, but if you're using the NFL photos and sideline signals from the game film you just took there's no chance you don't know what's coming. I'd say that's a big difference.